Could someone explain to me the 2002 Olympic womens results?

[hockeyfan228]

Except that it didn't. Under OBO Hughes scraped by with the absolute narrowest possible margin over Slutskaya, five first-place ordinals to four.

As Tatiana Tarasova put it, "Slutskaya must come first!"

Sorry, I meant to the average bear watching TV under OBO, Hughes had it hugely over everyone the way it eventually unfolded.

 

[moviechick]

But no one thought that Irina should have been placed ahead of Sarah Hughes in the free skate -- no one, that is, except the Russian judge, the Belarussian judge, the Slovakian judge and the Danish judge. If a fifth judge (the Finnish judge, say, who did give Slutskaya a higher technical mark than Hughes, as the original poster on this thread points out), we would have been investigating the great Danish-Finnish conspiracy.

That's the interesting thing, isn't it? There really could've been some kind of conspiracy like the Pairs fiasco but since the decision came out in favor of Hughes in the end, regardless of how close it was, no one really cares that much. If one judge had switched his vote in the pairs competition, no one would've even looked for a conspiracy..

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I wonder, if Slutskaya had come out on top with 5-4 and therefore beat two Americans in their home country, would this have become another big scandal at the SLC games? I can definitely see the argument that Slutskaya should've been first after the Short since Kwan had an iffy triple flip, but the LP shouldn't have been that close between Slutskaya and Hughes.

Everyone was whining about the pairs even before the French judge revealed anything and people were already a little suspicious of the Russians. It could've been an even more tainted Olympics...

Irina had and has a huge share of American fans. True when Sasha came on the scene she was put into 'if not Sasha, then Irina' category.

Based on the readings of GS at the time, I would say B&S had as many fans as S&P, if not more. I don't get the use of 'Everyone'.

Can you explain the whining? It seemed to me that there was more whining when the second gold medal was issued.

btw, The outcome of the collaboration between Didier and whomever was never resolved. Are you aware of that?

Joe

 

[moviechick]

Irina had and has a huge share of American fans. True when Sasha came on the scene she was put into 'if not Sasha, then Irina' category.

Based on the readings of GS at the time, I would say B&S had as many fans as S&P, if not more. I don't get the use of 'Everyone'.

Can you explain the whining? It seemed to me that there was more whining when the second gold medal was issued.

btw, The outcome of the collaboration between Didier and whomever was never resolved. Are you aware of that?

Joe

Oh, I have no idea how people on the internet reacted since I wasn't remotely involved in forums then. Whining as in people on TV, media..

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh, I have no idea how people on the internet reacted since I wasn't remotely involved in forums then. Whining as in people on TV, media..

Yet you found whining even before the event? From what source?

Joe

 

[escaflowne9282]

Yet you found whining even before the event? From what source?

Joe

I think she means that she found whining among the media/tv, after the event had concluded, but before the judge confessed to being pressured and the second gold medal was awarded .

 

[Ptichka]

Irina had and has a huge share of American fans.
...
Based on the readings of GS at the time, I would say B&S had as many fans as S&P, if not more.

I think this is where Olympics are so different from any other competition. Grand Prix, Euros, Worlds, etc. are primarily watched by fans - they know their skaters, and many of them support athletes from other countries (many Americans like Slutskaya, many Russians adore Cohen, etc.). Your comment about GS and B&S/ S&P is relevant there, because GS also represents the fans. Olympics, however, are different. They are followed by thousands of people who not only do not follow figure skating, but also have no idea what to look at when they do see it. Therefore, they have to default to supporting their countries' representatives.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think she means that she found whining among the media/tv, after the event had concluded, but before the judge confessed to being pressured and the second gold medal was awarded .

What is 'whining'? On this very thread posters are talking about Slutskaya should have won. Slutskaya did whine, so to speak. I prefer to say she contested the scoring, at least verbally.

Similarly, S&P did whine, so to speak while questioning a clean routine v. a slightly off rountine.

I think in both these cases IS and fans of S&P had a right to question the scoring. I do not see anything wrong with questioning the judges. They are not in agreement so the main question with all their expertise, what is it that keeps them from being in agreement.

Of course, nowadays, they score individual elements and there should be complete agreements but is there?

Some fans and some skaters too, will continue to whine or better said " it should be looked into."

I hope we are over the use of the catch phrase "so much whining". No one questions the umpire in a ball game, they just boo him or maybe hit him over the head with a bottle.

Joe

 

[moviechick]

Yet you found whining even before the event? From what source?

Joe

Commentators, media people-- it was like a front page story.. I mean unfair result or not, it shouldn't have blown up that way.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Well, Irina did alot of whining herself and the Russian Federation protested her placement. To this day Irina is probably still bitter about SLC. But Sarah was the clear winner that night. Irina was already given a gift at the GPF, so I think they just expected this to be given to her. In the end it didn't do Irina any favors.

Irina isn't the best sport when it comes to the olympics. Remember that she threw her bronze from 2006 in the trash.

 

[escaflowne9282]

What is 'whining'? On this very thread posters are talking about Slutskaya should have won. Slutskaya did whine, so to speak. I prefer to say she contested the scoring, at least verbally.

Similarly, S&P did whine, so to speak while questioning a clean routine v. a slightly off rountine.

I think in both these cases IS and fans of S&P had a right to question the scoring. I do not see anything wrong with questioning the judges. They are not in agreement so the main question with all their expertise, what is it that keeps them from being in agreement.

Well, I can't speak for moviechick, but for me, what crossed the line into whining territory was the immediate media coverage and commentary of that event. Whether you agreed with the result or not, having a commentator saying "but they earned it tonight." while the other one is surmising that the winning team will have such a hard time accepting a gold medal that they clearly must know was not deserved and shouts NO when asked to rise for the anthem, is whining at it's finest.

If they had questioned the judging,examined and the judging criteria and why they did not agree/ understand the decision, well then ,fine. But in that case, it felt like it was just one gigantic can of sour grapes because their team didn't win.

With regards to S&P, I think the fact that they were on NBC every 5 minutes ,being told how wonderful they were, while other skaters were being torn down and other athletes seemingly ignored , just got irritating to some people . That's not to say that they ,themselves, were unsportsmanlike, but the whole situation was just too much...

I do agree that, if S&P don't agree, or if IS doesn't agree with the placements of the judges, well then they have the right to say so, and demand some type of explanation as to why they voted the way they did. Heck, I ,myself, still cannot wrap my head around the placements of the ladies Short Programs in SLC, and I was a major Kwaniac rooting for a USA sweep back then.

That for me is one of the positive aspects of the Code of Points. At the end of the day, there are protocol sheets that list what points are given to what skaters and what it is they have rewarded. Not all questions are answered but at least some closure can be given to certain situations.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
I think all that is a Media blitz - not individual whining from the contestants, but by the 'it's a sad day for news. Let's carry on with the figure skating stories'. Media.

Joe

 

[Fossi]

There were several Irina interviews where she spoke negatively of Sarah Hughes and the results of SLC. She also criticized Michelle Kwan for wearing gold in the exhibition and made some odd remarks about American culture a few times after SLC. She did alot of whining and remained bitter for some time. Maybe it was just her attitide about defeat though? I remember when Sasha defeated her at GPF one year Irina said she "gave it away" rather than was beaten. Maybe she just doens't handle defeat well.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There were several Irina interviews where she spoke negatively of Sarah Hughes and the results of SLC. She also criticized Michelle Kwan for wearing gold in the exhibition and made some odd remarks about American culture a few times after SLC. She did alot of whining and remained bitter for some time. Maybe it was just her attitide about defeat though? I remember when Sasha defeated her at GPF one year Irina said she "gave it away" rather than was beaten. Maybe she just doens't handle defeat well.

Well, I don't believe one has to agree with her or any other skaters, coaches, or Feds' statements. I certainly don't.

Joe

 

[lisadotdash]

Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering this for years.

 

[Ladskater]

The way I saw that competition, was:

Hughes skated her LP by the numbers (nothing inspiring) but clean.
irina skated her LP too carefully, and without any flare whatsoever.
Kwan skated her LP without any feeling for the music.

The Technical aspects were obvious: Hughes no mistakes; Irina sloppy jump landings; Kwan fell and it cost her.

At the time, I was a Kwaniac and I think had she stayed with Carroll, she would have won.

No point lamenting any of this. It's kind of an expectation in Ladies skating, the best skater did not win but the one who was the best that night did. I believe the best skaters of their era were Summers, Bielman, Kerrigan, Kwan but no trophies. Only Mao holds both the best skater and the deserved medal.

Joe

I have to differ with you here Joe. I think of the three Ladies, Sarah Hughes had the most inspiring skate. She skated it freely and from the heart. It's possibly why she won because she never dreamed of making it to the podium let alone winning gold. I am sure Michelle and Irina were not thinking that way - they expected to win. It was rather refreshing to watch Sarah. It sort of reminded me of when Elizabeth Manley skated her sivler medal finish at the Calgary games in 88 - she was inspired. Liz was not even a contender for any of the medals and she had the performance of the night. Sometimes it happens that way at the Olympics. As Brian Orser and Kurt Browning will attest - the Olympics are totally unpredictable and a weird place to be.

Here is a great article about Liz's inspiring skate at the 88 Olympics:

http://www.caaws.ca/olympics/2002/greatcan/manley.htm

 

[Clover]

I agree with Ladskater - I thought Sarah Hughes LP was amazing - not only the technical content, but her feeling and expression of the music - w/o doubt IMO she had the best performance of the night. By contrast, both Michelle and Irina skated flat to me. I also thought she had the second most difficult SP of the night, and if she hadnt skated so early on in the competition, I think she might have been 3rd, [I would have put her 2nd].

 

[Mafke]

It sort of reminded me of when Elizabeth Manley skated her sivler medal finish at the Calgary games in 88 - she was inspired. Liz was not even a contender for any of the medals and she had the performance of the night.

I'm sure I remember her being mentioned as a probably bronze contender along with Kadavy and Trenary. She was probably considered a bigger contender than three other previous world or olympic medalists in that competition (Ivanova, Leistner and Kondrashova). Certainly no one doubted Manley's potential (after Geneva 86) the question was could she keep focused and not sabotage herself in figures or the SP.

I think of Hughes in 2002 as clearly having the best lp on a not very inspiring night of competition. Of course, skating in front of an appreciative home country audience made it seem ... better than it was. She stepped up to the plate when they didn't, but in terms of basic skating skills she was never really in Kwan's or Slutskaya's league and that particular big win assured she never would be.

 

[bethissoawesome]

Quick question: If Sasha had cleanly landed her opening triple-triple, what would the final podium have looked like with her going into the LP in 3rd place. And what do you think her standing in the LP would have been?

 

[Jaana]

Although I´m not a fan of Slutskaya, I still think that she should have won the gold medal. In my opinion Hughes was too high up after the sp and Slutskaya should have been 1st in sp. Hughes had the best freeskate, but she would not have won the whole competition if she had been on the place she deserved after the sp.

Like Joesitz I think that Kwan should have stayed with Carroll, she lost the gold because of her bad timing in being without a coach.