Daniil Gleikhengauz & Sergei Dudakov Live Press Conference: Live on May 8th

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The battle of words is going on and as the Olympics is closer it will only get harder. Now Alysa Liu is (on words) a podium contender, now Eteri uses "forbidden" "risky to health" weigh practices. I expect to hear a lot of things like that in the months to come. Luckily Eteri girls (at least they said that) do not read GS, sports.ru and other boards where those paper wars leave no survivors.

I hope that no one will say openly that they wish Eteri's girls to fail at the Olympics (what they truly wish should stay with them). I hope that those who keep saying that they follow only men will follow men rather than pour another bucket of crticism on Sambo. Let us enjoy skating and let authorities do their work when there is a reason for it.

 

[nussnacker]

The battle of words is going on and as the Olympics is closer it will only get harder. Now Alysa Liu is (on words) a podium contender, now Eteri uses "forbidden" "risky to health" weigh practices. I expect to hear a lot of things like that in the months to come. Luckily Eteri girls (at least they said that) do not read GS, sports.ru and other boards where those paper wars leave no survivors.

I hope that no one will say openly that they wish Eteri's girls to fail at the Olympics (what they truly wish should stay with them). I hope that those who keep saying that they follow only men will follow men rather than pour another bucket of crticism on Sambo. Let us enjoy skating and let authorities do their work when there is a reason for it.

Not everything in the world is some conspiracy/jealousy against Eteri. Being an experienced coach doesn’t make them always right and all-knowing. No need to take any criticism as a personal attack. Sometimes it is reasonable, and I hope you can acknowledge that they are not perfect creatures. They make mistakes, they can be wrong, and I hope they keep learning and improving their training practices.

At the same time, I don’t think there was anything „controversial“ that I heard in that particular interview. Perhaps someone can provide a better translation, because I didn’t really think there was anything strange in what they were saying. Whatever Daniil said, Sergej tried to explain with examples. To me it seemed like a reasonable explanation: if you’re weight isn’t going up and down significantly, you’re able to jump with better consistency and you’re less likely to get injured. Maybe they are wrong, and gaining or losing weight means nothing for your jumps. I can’t know, though from what I heard from skaters, they do feel changes in their skating if their weight changes.
I did not hear a mention of any shrimps, I assume this is still coming from an interview with Emma from a few years ago, and I’m pretty sure she was exaggerating when she said „2 shrimps“ to make a point that Anna isn’t eating much to her eye, but people just took it and ran with it.

 

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"Everything", "everybody knows" - these are argument techniques that I try not to use. I see the trend - it has not started today. I don't reply to every nitpicking regarding Eteri and Sambo - my personal life would be ruined if I did. This time the whole new thread was created. Do people discuss what Sergei and Daniil think of Mexican figure skating? How do they deal with so many top skaters under the same roof? What does Daniil think of the workload on him as he has to create so many programs for top skaters, etc. etc.? No, they picked just one point where he says that he believes that gaining one extra kilo changes the weight distribution in the body and may be dangerous injury wise for girls who learn quads...I am checking out - life is more interesting than this.

 

[el henry]

There are an overflow of people wanting to win a medal. You can’t stop a top athlete. They are where they are because they are willing to push harder than a mere mortal.

You have to be reletively thin, agile and athletic to be a top figure skater. That’s just the way it is. Half a kilo can be the difference between succes and failure.

And whatever rules or safeguards you put in place, the line is long for those that want to bend or break those rules if it means getting an advantage.

You could not stop Anna from risking her health and the health of those around her, for a chance to win a Russian Championship. And that mentality is part of the reason the Russian ladies are lapping the competition.

Long story short, I watch and enjoy the sport, and I will not tell anyone involved how to train or not train for it. From a selfish standpoint, I want to see a 5 quad ladies program sooner than later. Even 6 or 7.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do this for a living. People chose this as a career. And just like any job, there are sacrifices that need to be made. Some make more than others.

Finally, I do not follow, not care to follow, gymnastics so I can’t comment on what goes, or doesn’t go, on in that sport.

How do you know that Bela Karolyi is a gymnastics coach if you don't follow the sport? I didn't say gymnastics

I don't follow the sport either, could not tell you the name of one gymnast other than Simone Biles, but I read the front pages of my newspapers (dead tree old school newspapers) And his toxic training methods were documented.

I will, based on experts that I read, rely on those experts' evaluation of training methods. And I spoke *only* to weighing a skater every single day. That does diddly bupkis for their weight, and leads to eating disorders . As one skater (gosh I can't remember ETA: I think it was Sean Rabbitt, his interview was wonderful, very engaging and honest speaker) said in Polina Edmunds' podcasts : "Deprivation is not discipline"

No medal, world championship, reputation in skating or any other outcome is worth an eating disorder. None.

And since I didn't listen to the interview and wasn't even sure that is what he said, I was remarking only on that one practice.

 

[el henry]

To me it seemed like a reasonable explanation: if you’re weight isn’t going up and down significantly, you’re able to jump with better consistency and you’re less likely to get injured. Maybe they are wrong, and gaining or losing weight means nothing for your jumps. I can’t know, though from what I heard from skaters, they do feel changes in their skating if their weight changes.

Dreaded double post, but I just read this:

And if this is what they said, of course no one can vary greatly in weight, either upward or downward, without affecting performance (unless perhaps they were underweight and needed muscle mass?) I was only remarking about weighing every day, and that could be a wrong quote.

Personally I am *much* more interested in anything they said about Donovan

 

[Flying Feijoa]

They didn’t say a skater physically can’t jump. They said suddenly adding something like 1kg might potentially cause injuries, that the body needs to get used to it first.
Sergej gave an example with throwing a ball: that if a person gets used to throwing a ball and getting it into a basket, and then the ball suddenly gets 1kg heavier, the person might not be able to adjust immediately.

That's logical and very reasonable, as I'd expect from Dudakov. The reason I linked the clip was to address a statement made by @alexocfp not the coaches.

Guys, how many times can you come back with questions about weight? The problem is that when the body grows, the muscles cannot keep up with the weight. They send girls to the scales when they are looking for a problem if the jump suddenly stops working. Many singles athletes in different sports have their own optimal weights, but this does not mean that girls should be locked in their weight as they grow up. They normally relate to the fact that the weight is walking, but if suddenly an athlete is gaining sharply, then something needs to be done about it. All athletes follow certain diets and this is normal for high performance sports. In a recent interview, Maya Khromykh said that Eteri is against starvation! Kamilla Valieva also said that the weight should be monitored, and she notices that if she gains weight, it becomes more difficult to get into the jump, and the jump height becomes lower. It is a race between muscle and weight until the muscles catch up with the weight and you have trouble jumping.

Thank you for the elaboration. As I said, I was not sure exactly what Daniil meant but I didn't discount the possibility that they would normalise weight to height.

seeing an unsubstantiated/illogical assertion bandied about as gospel truth annoy me

I'm not sure if this was the statement that some of you took offence at, but let me clarify that I don't think that someone like Dudakov would believe or claim anything that isn't scientifically supported. I was referring to the tendency for less-discerning people to misinterpret a training principle and repeat it and nauseam. It's like how some people believe ballerinas all have mutilated bleeding feet from pointe (or that it's a necessary evil) - imagining masochism somehow adds to the mystique.
Can happen, but only sometimes, and doesn't need to happen.
Same goes with weight in FS, obviously it's important to keep in shape but it's a myth that small 1kg changes spell victory or defeat, they simply take time to adjust to. Weight control does not need to be overdramatised (both fans, critics and some skaters themselves with distorted thinking patterns are guilty of this).

By the way, thanks for the interview @MashaOfficial ! I appreciate the effort, it's always good to hear from primary sources.

 

[dante]

Daily weigh-ins by authority figures have been shown to lead to eating disorders, which is one reason Skate Canada forbids weighing skaters other than by a health professional.

I don't think any of Eteri's girls would be able to show such performance with an eating disorder.

IMO, the real problem is that less experienced coaches may want to replicate the success of this system without understanding it (e.g. not seeing alarming signs of a potential eating disorder), or even worse, to take rumors from freaks like TSL as a recipe for success.

No medal, world championship, reputation in skating or any other outcome is worth an eating disorder. None.

Sadly, becoming an Olympic champion usually takes the opposite attitude.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

IMO, the real problem is that less experienced coaches may want to replicate the success of this system without understanding it (e.g. not seeing alarming signs of a potential eating disorder), or even worse, to take rumors from freaks like TSL as a recipe for success.

Yes, that's my worry. Ignorant coaches/parents and impressionable teenagers getting the wrong idea that 'this is what it takes to succeed' when 'this' (2 shrimps, 3 mussels, whatever) is not actually what the successful people do.
We're definitely on the same page when it comes to TSL...

 

[Fried]

Interesting article. I fully and completely agree with the characterizations of Gleikhengauz and Dudakov.

"300 долларов за 30 минут": команда Тутберидзе оскандалилась в Мексике

Во время межсезонья в фигурном катании команда «Хрустального» отправилась в Мексику с мастер-классом. Даниил Глейхенгауз и Сергей Дудаков на протяжении пяти дней учили мексиканцев хореографии и техники. Только не все остались довольны — американские журналисты высмеяли работу тренеров, а...

www.sportmk.ru

 

[MiraiFan]

Interesting article. I fully and completely agree with the characterizations of Gleikhengauz and Dudakov.

"300 долларов за 30 минут": команда Тутберидзе оскандалилась в Мексике

Во время межсезонья в фигурном катании команда «Хрустального» отправилась в Мексику с мастер-классом. Даниил Глейхенгауз и Сергей Дудаков на протяжении пяти дней учили мексиканцев хореографии и техники. Только не все остались довольны — американские журналисты высмеяли работу тренеров, а...

www.sportmk.ru

Jesus. Not a good look for sure. I have done adult skating seminars with a lot of people and the coaches were super engaged, gave corrections, and we got a lot out of it. Clearly these two didn't care.

 

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Of course, TSL - the embodiment of professional journalism published another sensational interview about TT and here we are - a choir of concerned voices. I can add to that:

Here Dudakov pursues kids to beat them www.instagram.com/p/COsdZfLjQPZ/
Daniil tries to break a leg of a child www.instagram.com/p/COdezA0p4wX/
Daniil make the kids run in circles until they faint www.instagram.com/p/COaYHLkp3cc/
A cunning trick to make the kids dizzy www.instagram.com/tv/COsloCEihg5/

BTW, according to another source USD 300 was the price for a 5 day seminar not for 30 minutes in a group. TSL = fake news. It's obvious to many people but clearly not to everyone.

 

[flanker]

Well, it's nothing but a tabloid source.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I wouldn't trust TSL to tell me the weather if they were standing in it.

Unless another reputable source backs this up I'm not inclined to take their word on anything.

 

[MashaOfficial]

Of course, TSL - the embodiment of professional journalism published another sensational interview about TT and here we are - a choir of concerned voices. I can add to that:

Here Dudakov pursues kids to beat them www.instagram.com/p/COsdZfLjQPZ/
Daniil tries to break a leg of a child www.instagram.com/p/COdezA0p4wX/
Daniil make the kids run in circles until they faint www.instagram.com/p/COaYHLkp3cc/
A cunning trick to make the kids dizzy www.instagram.com/tv/COsloCEihg5/

BTW, according to another source USD 300 was the price for a 5 day seminar not for 30 minutes in a group. TSL = fake news. It's obvious to many people but clearly not to everyone.

I can confirm that the price was $300 for 5 hours on the ice. I personally paid that for my kid. I decided to pay extra off ice for $100 (for five 45 min clases). The higher levels paid $500 for about 2.5 hours a day five days, plus the off ice every day. I was there the whole week. I took the seminar as a coach, and I can say with knowledge that TLS was indeed giving fake and exaggerated news.

 

[flanker]

From what I know the TSL source was a mother of a kid who did not take part in the master class.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I can say with knowledge that TLS was indeed giving fake and exaggerated news.

Colour me surprised...not!

Someone should sue their butts for slander/libel (I never remember which is which).

Honestly, they are they utter toxic dump of the figure skating world and I'm embarrassed whenever I think about how much power and reach they have in the fandom

 

[MashaOfficial]

From what I know the TSL source was a mother of a kid who did not take part in the master class.

No surprise there. Here are the facts:
-I was there the whole week, paid for my daughter's seminar and paid for my coach seminar.
-They´re saying the price was $300 for one class. It's like this: For the lowest level, it was $300 for 5 on ice classes of 1:15 hours long. For the rest of the levels, it was $500 for 10 on ice classes of 1:15 hours long plus 5 off ice classes 45 min long. (I paid extra off ice, $100 that included five off ice classes 45 min long).
-They´re saying also that the cost of the picture was $50 which is totally false. Many girls and coaches were lucky enough to get their picture with them at the end of lessons, with their cell phones without charge, of course. There was a photography company who offered to take the picture and sell it. They charged $7.5 for 2 pictures. They also offered a DVD with about 1 hour footage of the seminar (including their skating group only), plus several pictures of the kid skating on the seminar. That package was $50. But as I said, is a photography company that has nothing to do with either the organizers or the Russian coaches. Organizers or coaches didn't get money from that.
-About the coaches kicking girls off ice, I personally didn't see that. Yes, the coaches were frustrated. Can't blame them. They come from the country with best figure skating in the world and come to Mexico, one of the countries on the bottom on figure skating. Our girls were struggling to understand drills and corrections. In part because of how figure skating is here, but also in part because of the language and culture barrier. There were lots of little girls who didn't get what they needed to do. There were many skaters on the ice and the coaches can't stop girl by girl. So, there were mexican assistant coaches on the ice helping the Russians with those kids who didn't get it.
-I only saw Daniil one or two times grab his phone. I could say that may be just the first day I didn't think they were paying enough attention. JUST on the first day. By the second day I think they really tried to change the strategy and it worked much better.
-As for the off ice on the parking lot, something should be clarified. This ice rink is inside a shopping mall that is on a really big avenue without parks or open spaces. Big city, you know... Just buildings everywhere. So, it's not like you can go outside and do the off ice on a park or something. With COVID restrictions, you can't put the girls on the ballet room to do off ice. So, there was a specific section on the mall parking lot closed for the seminar. It was almost a whole floor of the parking lot. It had ventilation and space, so, personally I think it was good.
-The organizers did a good job taking the girls from one point to another, being extra careful to follow covid regulations and all.

So, in conclusion, what was posted was fake and exaggerated. I can't say that the Russians corrected every girl every second. No. But let's be objective. They weren't just resting and looking the other way. They did their best to correct them. Sooo many girls on the ice.
But I think it's important to know the facts and be real about this. Not just deliver fake news so people can gossip. Of course everything has a good and a bad side! But I'm telling you the facts and have evidence to prove everything. Hopefully people will know the truth about the seminar.

 

[lesnar001]

Thank you to MashaOfficial for clarifying what actually happened at the seminar versus some gossip-rag's fake news about it.
Using another gossip-monger (Mr Lease) as a "source", of all things.
It's a shame someone here actually found it neccessary to post that useless article. For what purpose, I have no idea.

It's fine to have disagreements about training methods (as took place on page 1 of this thread).

But why would someone post a link to what has now been shown to be a false, misleading article from a gossip-site?
Not so nice, IMHO.

 

[MashaOfficial]

That happens everywhere
but you’re welcome!!! Hopefully people can see the good and bad things and be objective about news, right?

 

[Decoder]

No surprise there. Here are the facts:
-I was there the whole week, paid for my daughter's seminar and paid for my coach seminar.
-They´re saying the price was $300 for one class. It's like this: For the lowest level, it was $300 for 5 on ice classes of 1:15 hours long. For the rest of the levels, it was $500 for 10 on ice classes of 1:15 hours long plus 5 off ice classes 45 min long. (I paid extra off ice, $100 that included five off ice classes 45 min long).
-They´re saying also that the cost of the picture was $50 which is totally false. Many girls and coaches were lucky enough to get their picture with them at the end of lessons, with their cell phones without charge, of course. There was a photography company who offered to take the picture and sell it. They charged $7.5 for 2 pictures. They also offered a DVD with about 1 hour footage of the seminar (including their skating group only), plus several pictures of the kid skating on the seminar. That package was $50. But as I said, is a photography company that has nothing to do with either the organizers or the Russian coaches. Organizers or coaches didn't get money from that.
-About the coaches kicking girls off ice, I personally didn't see that. Yes, the coaches were frustrated. Can't blame them. They come from the country with best figure skating in the world and come to Mexico, one of the countries on the bottom on figure skating. Our girls were struggling to understand drills and corrections. In part because of how figure skating is here, but also in part because of the language and culture barrier. There were lots of little girls who didn't get what they needed to do. There were many skaters on the ice and the coaches can't stop girl by girl. So, there were mexican assistant coaches on the ice helping the Russians with those kids who didn't get it.
-I only saw Daniil one or two times grab his phone. I could say that may be just the first day I didn't think they were paying enough attention. JUST on the first day. By the second day I think they really tried to change the strategy and it worked much better.
-As for the off ice on the parking lot, something should be clarified. This ice rink is inside a shopping mall that is on a really big avenue without parks or open spaces. Big city, you know... Just buildings everywhere. So, it's not like you can go outside and do the off ice on a park or something. With COVID restrictions, you can't put the girls on the ballet room to do off ice. So, there was a specific section on the mall parking lot closed for the seminar. It was almost a whole floor of the parking lot. It had ventilation and space, so, personally I think it was good.
-The organizers did a good job taking the girls from one point to another, being extra careful to follow covid regulations and all.

So, in conclusion, what was posted was fake and exaggerated. I can't say that the Russians corrected every girl every second. No. But let's be objective. They weren't just resting and looking the other way. They did their best to correct them. Sooo many girls on the ice.
But I think it's important to know the facts and be real about this. Not just deliver fake news so people can gossip. Of course everything has a good and a bad side! But I'm telling you the facts and have evidence to prove everything. Hopefully people will know the truth about the seminar.

Very happy to hear your facts. I was expecting to see some trash, but what a surprise, in a good way! Thanks again for sharing the facts and your experience.