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Eating Disorders: public or silent enemy?
- Thread starter sisinka
- Start date
And that's what matters. End of story.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2023
Not sure if there are in-vivo studies concerning increased tendon sport injury risk accounting for natural hydration methods but here are two articles demonstrating biomechanical correlations with tendon fiber hydration. They demonstrate loss of flexibility and lubrication (among other things) which I believe are scientifically supported as correlated with tendon injury risk (but I could be wrong! I am lazy to check...)
Rehydration of the Tendon Fascicle Bundles Using Simulated Body Fluid Ensures Stable Mechanical Properties of the Samples - PMC
In this work, we investigate the influence of dehydration and subsequent rehydration of tendon fascicle bundles on their structural and mechanical properties by using distilled water, 0.9% NaCl, 10% NaCl, SBF, and double concentrated SBF (SBFx2). ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Water-content related alterations in macro and micro scale tendon biomechanics - PMC
Though it is known that the water content of biological soft tissues alters mechanical properties, little attempt has been made to adjust the tissue water content prior to biomechanical testing as part of standardization procedures. The objective of ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Heres an article on hydration and tendon development/nanostructure. I think they mention its related to recovery and injury. This article could be irrelevant TBH I barely skimmed the abstract haha but I am adding it just in case. The earlier two articles though I am pretty sure are relevant.
It seems that the literature is pretty quiet on this topic under the specific experimental conditions you have in mind. But its also a difficult thing to study in-vivo and probably not much financial incentive from hydration supplement companies on tendon-specific issue since the general public doesnt think about those things.
However I think those first two articles support the thesis well. I admit though this is far from my area of knowledge. I am not a life scientist, and if I am in any way knowledgable on life sciences its about genetics and perhaps some micro-processes. Macro life sciences are the furthest thing from my expertise, at least in a peer-reviewed technical sense.
But I also find it anecdotally supported from my personal experience, that athletes suffer tendon related muscle detachments under dehydrated states such as resulting from martial art weight cuts for example. Actually powerlifting/bodybuilding/strongman probably provide the best anecdotal evidence in regards to pectoral tendon detachment, quadricep/hamstring detachment, plus bicep/tricep detachment under dehydrated weight-cut conditions. Its a very common occurrence and hydration is a well accepted factor by coaches and athletes in those sports. I think there is a lot of truth outside peer-review and a lot of falsity and monetarily-inspired deception in peer-review as well. Especially true for subjective and popular subjects like sports science. Though I understand the interest in peer-review sources and will generally fold to those requests. I am a little surprised you "never" heard of a correlation between hydration and tendon ruptures if you are involved with sports and athletes, but if you are not involved with them but only study the literature then I understand.
Ah actually I hear this all the time from Grishin. If a girl got taller over the off-season or hit puberty and has a disaster skate, he always mentions that we should appreciate the skater and we have lots of hope for them to get used to their new body, and its ok that they are having trouble while adjusting. In fact we get at least a few comments like that from him per event. Though on the other hand people like Tarasova will publicly reprimand any girl who gained a couple pounds, on live commentary in front of the whole world, which is insufferable.
Hm, thats a little subjective about what exactly is post-puberty since we are only judging visually. You are right I can not think of any 20 year olds who jump fully rotated quads. Kamila for example though was obviously post-puberty by visual judgement when landing clean 4Ts. Not sure about other examples honestly. Its definitely true that small junior girls are taking the lead in quads, their bodies do allow for the rotations much easier. We'll see for example if grown up Akateva regains her 4T or 4S this season. Petrosian has a perfect 4T I think she'll keep it, dont know about the 4F. Hard to tell where she is in development though, from what I understand her entire family is very short so I dont think her growth is stunted. Anyways these are just additional comments, I understand the issue with quads, I am not really trying to debate your thesis on that.
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- Jun 21, 2003
The ISU has gone through a lot of contortions and hand-wringings over this question. It seems like every couple of years they tweak the scoring rules rules about q, <, <<. etc.
Back in the 6.0 era my recollection is that they weren't too fussy about full rotation, but two-footing the landing was a cardinal sin that nullified the whole element (although one could never tell how an individual judge might factor it into the overall technical mark.) Alexandre Fedeev attempted a quad at the 1984 Olympics. I don't know whether the rotations were complete or not, but the landing was flawed so the jump was not ratified, leaving it to Kurt Browning to get credit for the first ever ratified quad four years later.
Michael Weiss tried and tried and tried to become the first man to land a quad Lutz. He made some valiant attempts, but could not prevent his free foot from brushing the ice as he brought it through on the landing.
If memory serves, one of the big things abput the original IJS system in 2002-04 was that the ISU was detemined to clean up the barrage of "cheated jumps" that plagued skating under the the old system. The first version of the IJS was draconian -- if your triple was not fully rotated, it was scored as a double, period. Realizing that this was going too far, they began to ease up and give more credit for jumps that were not bad but were a few degrees short. In the mean time, I guess two-footing the landing is reflected in GOE, but does not invalidate the jump.
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Thank you for your comments but I think in the view of the information we have seen so far here on many other skaters, it rather deserves praising him that he's been working with a nutritionist at all, which is not common among skaters, as we all know,(BTW he just said in the interview aired this weekend that he was 17, not 18, when he first started, after all) Still Yuzu also said what I think very important - that it was pretty new and uncommon when he first started, at least in his "circles", and that it is getting more popular among athletes now.
Yes, he, or anyone else, could have benefited more if started earlier. Still he benefited a lot, even starting at this old age of 17-18 which I think deserves to be the point of focus here and not be easily dismissed. So I'd rather say it was lucky and wise that he did start at all although it was not really common in his environment, than choose to ask "why so late".
Sure, I agree parents and skaters should be encouraged to work with professional nutritionists as early as possible. Still, this knowledge should be passed on to them first and foremost by the coaches, and also by medical professionals, sport doctors, physiotherapists, or even GPs when they learn a kid is practising some sport. Nobody is born with such knowledge. If a 17 year old skater is not aware of the potential benefits he or she might get from the nutritional help, it is not his or her fault, or his or her parents' fault. It is the fault of the whole sporting environment, - the coach, the club, but also the sporting community at large, the federation, ISU - as they seemingly neglect training, information and communication on things that matter. Maybe, just maybe, because they are not properly educated themselves, on nutrition, but also on communication.
So, if some skaters happen not to be enlightened as to the need to consult a nutritionist when really young, and they happen to get the knowledge and be initiated at a bit older age, I think they should still be encouraged and praised when they do it at a later stage. They should be told "it is great, it is never too late, it can still help you achieve great things, look how it helped Yuzuru Hanyu, even though he started late" and not be dismissed as starting too late .
I also think it is important to promote this knowledge with some positive examples, as positive as they are out there. It has long been proven by huge volume of research that concentrating only on negative information does not really help much in achieving a change in behaviour patterns or spreading information. Quite to the contrary, it is contrasting the negative with showing positive ways to go and positive examples which really helps.
And BTW, it is interesting. Yuzu started working with a nutritionist when he moved to Canada to be coached by Brian Orser, although the nutritionist himself was based in Japan. So did Zhenya Medvedeva, at a similar age, alas with much damaged body and stress fractures already there, who also explained she had never ever been informed earlier about the possibility and importance of getting nutritional help. I wonder, is it possible that it was not just a coincidence but that it is a positive influence of TCC which we know of as a great coaching environment in many other ways, too. If true, this would be truly great and a model to follow. ...
I think I do understand your points.
My sentences were not meant to blame Yuzuru or his family. Sure, there must be knowledge given from somebody to skaters and their families. Or they must be lucky to have somebody in family to work in nutrition sector to have the knowledge.
Based on these articles:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128139226000199
- "...The industry of sports nutrition beverages started in the 1960s as an answer to athletes' hydration and recovery needs after exercise..."
- "...The scientific exploration of sports nutrition began in the late 19th century with studies on muscle glycogen and its role in athletic stamina...
...Around the mid-20th century, researchers began to delve into the effects of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats on athletic performance.
...The late 20th century witnessed a significant shift in sports nutrition. Athletes started paying more attention to their diets, aiming to maximize performance and recovery. This period saw the rise of sports drinks, specialized diets, and supplements targeting various aspects of performance, from muscle recovery to endurance..."
Well, I must say that I am not very glad seeing that while other sports had the knowledge about sport nutrition for decades....figure skating world is on the level of discovering its importance. But it is improving, that is great.
I definitely agree that communication and education are the keys.
You are absolute right, positive examples and positive informations are needed.
It is ideal to start soon with nutritional care to protect body and made it as strong as possible. But even starting in late teen age, it is still very useful. Simply it is never too late.
Well, positive examples.
We have Yuzuru Hanyu...
You mentioned Evgenia Medvedeva in 2018-19 season...
and there is Yuma Kagiyama - https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...s-in-figure-skating.98339/page-2#post-3285985
- "...I can speak to Yuma's stress fracture in the 2022-23 season...During his break from skating, he began to work with a nutritionist to improve sleeping and eating habits to reduce future injury..."
Yu-Na Kim followed diet of 1200 kcal per day at the Olympics 2010 and over 1200 kcal per day at the Olympics 2014, I guess she also cooperated with nutritionist.
Triple Axels are definitely on Emily Bausback's 'to do' list
Emily Bausback was recently selected by Skate Canada to be part of the national team along with Alison Schumacher and Madeline Schizas for the 2020-21
www.goldenskate.com
- in 2018-19: "...I became educated in proper nutrition...
- after 2018-19 season: "...I also began working more with my nutritionist and we developed a structured eating plan..."
Kaitlin Hawayek Shares Tips and Tools for Recovery - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone
POOF! (Cue dramatic cloud of smoke appearing out of thin air.)
usfigureskatingfanzone.com
- "...Through working with a nutritionist over the past many years... I also highly recommend consulting with a nutritionist or expert on what vitamins you might need to incorporate into your diet. I get all my supplements from Thorne Research because they are NSF certified and safe for sport and have a great variety of options depending on what you might need..."
Loena Hendrickx: “I always believed in Russian girls and their results, but after the Olympics, certain doubts appeared. I think this is very sad and hurts figure skating.”
Interview with Loena Hendrickx for Russian media. About changes after a successful season, figure skating in Belgium, her artistic images on the ice, the age minimum, and the suspension of Russian athletes.
fs-gossips.com
- "...As for the weight, yes, at the age of 16-17 it was especially hard for me. I ate all the same things in the same quantities, but suddenly began to gain weight dramatically. I got scared and went to a nutritionist. She explained to me everything that I did not understand about my body: what to eat, when to eat, and in what proportions, because everything had been studied long ago.
...For example, the same banana, if eaten at different times of the day along with different foods, will have a different effect on your body. You may be trying to eat healthy, but you’re still doing it wrong. You need to learn proper nutrition just as you learn how to skate..."
Daisuke Takahashi Road to The World
Canon Interview with Daisuke Takahashi | I realize that I like the return to skate to make up my life | Daisuke Takahashi who at 32 years old returned for the first time in five seasons. After...
www.facebook.com
- "...I also started cooking. Four years ago I left it to a nutritionist...."
As to Toronto Cricket Skating Club and coach Brian Orser and his team. Maybe they indeed influenced Yuzuru and Zhenya Medvedeva's decision. I found this article from 1988:
Figure Skating: The Soaring, Spinning Battle Of the Brians
When the best American and the best Canadian face off next week, a friendly, decade-long skating rivalry will finally be settled
So we can add Brian Orser to the list of skaters cooperating with nutritionist.
If I will find another skaters who mentioned working with nutritionist, I will post it here.
I will talk about ladies cathegory only.
I do believe that current age is more protective for both young girls and mature ladies.
Age limit is not going to save figure skating from Eating Disorder's nightmare, but it could reduce numbers a little bit.
When in past girls with prepubertal bodies competed with mature ladies, it was not good for mental and physical health of both groups.
Personally I would pick 18 years as a senior age eligibility. It is the age of majority for most of countries, which would also give sense in anything connected to law (but for example Japan has 20 years based on Internet). The second reason is postponed puberty thanks to demanding training and wrong nutrition.
https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/factsheets/puberty - based on these: "...The physical changes that mark puberty typically begin in girls between ages 8 and 13 and in boys between ages 9 and 14..."
We don't have possibility to ask about menstruation, we can only see visual changes. But I think it is quite clear that many girls at JGP circuit have postponed puberty and the process itself goes slower in comparison with non-athletes. (Not to forget there are also girls whose puberty start later than usual, it can be influenced by genetics - goes through generations in a family). The end of puberty is between 15-17 in girls, but it can be much later. With postponed puberty, it will probably be later. (And there are people who are growing in height slowly up to 23-25 years old.)
Which leads me to think that 17 years being senior age eligibility is not sufficient.
But overall this is very complicated topic. I wouldn't want to be on a place of those who decide this.
One thing which I mind seeing young girls coming and leaving prematurily...
Skater's peak in presentation comes with age and mental maturity. Being forced to retire in teen age thanks to injuries, we will not have the opportunity to see their presentation grow. I know there are different shows, but it is not comparable with complex competitive programs in my eyes.
Not sure if there are in-vivo studies concerning increased tendon sport injury risk accounting for natural hydration methods but here are two articles demonstrating biomechanical correlations with tendon fiber hydration. They demonstrate loss of flexibility and lubrication (among other things) which I believe are scientifically supported as correlated with tendon injury risk (but I could be wrong! I am lazy to check...)
Rehydration of the Tendon Fascicle Bundles Using Simulated Body Fluid Ensures Stable Mechanical Properties of the Samples - PMC
In this work, we investigate the influence of dehydration and subsequent rehydration of tendon fascicle bundles on their structural and mechanical properties by using distilled water, 0.9% NaCl, 10% NaCl, SBF, and double concentrated SBF (SBFx2). ...
Water-content related alterations in macro and micro scale tendon biomechanics - PMC
Though it is known that the water content of biological soft tissues alters mechanical properties, little attempt has been made to adjust the tissue water content prior to biomechanical testing as part of standardization procedures. The objective of ...
Heres an article on hydration and tendon development/nanostructure. I think they mention its related to recovery and injury. This article could be irrelevant TBH I barely skimmed the abstract haha but I am adding it just in case. The earlier two articles though I am pretty sure are relevant.
It seems that the literature is pretty quiet on this topic under the specific experimental conditions you have in mind. But its also a difficult thing to study in-vivo and probably not much financial incentive from hydration supplement companies on tendon-specific issue since the general public doesnt think about those things.
However I think those first two articles support the thesis well. I admit though this is far from my area of knowledge. I am not a life scientist, and if I am in any way knowledgable on life sciences its about genetics and perhaps some micro-processes. Macro life sciences are the furthest thing from my expertise, at least in a peer-reviewed technical sense.
But I also find it anecdotally supported from my personal experience, that athletes suffer tendon related muscle detachments under dehydrated states such as resulting from martial art weight cuts for example. Actually powerlifting/bodybuilding/strongman probably provide the best anecdotal evidence in regards to pectoral tendon detachment, quadricep/hamstring detachment, plus bicep/tricep detachment under dehydrated weight-cut conditions. Its a very common occurrence and hydration is a well accepted factor by coaches and athletes in those sports. I think there is a lot of truth outside peer-review and a lot of falsity and monetarily-inspired deception in peer-review as well. Especially true for subjective and popular subjects like sports science. Though I understand the interest in peer-review sources and will generally fold to those requests. I am a little surprised you "never" heard of a correlation between hydration and tendon ruptures if you are involved with sports and athletes, but if you are not involved with them but only study the literature then I understand.
I will answer in Stress Fractures Thread: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/threads/stress-fractures-in-figure-skating.98339/
General note: Every skater who reach elite level did remarkable work. There are tons of afford, pain and time put into those "effortlessly" looking short and free programs. Being able to jump triples or train / land quad jumps, it is admirable work done by both children and women. My notes are not about putting down one or second group. I would like to find a balance.
To your question, I don't really prefer to compare it this way, because with ISU judging system "q" or "<" means lower base value and lower or minus GOE.
(GOE for underrotations are taken from Rion Sumiyoshi's programs as ISU Scale of Values does not work for me at the moment):
4 toeloop 9.5 (GOE +3 = +2.85) = score 12.35 points
4 toeloop < 7.6 (GOE -2.82) = score 4.78 points
4 toeloop << 4.20 (GOE -2.1) = score 2.10 points
That is point gap of around 7.5 points and over 10 points. Literally point punishment for mature ladies for not having prepubertal body.
In another Thread @4everchan mentioned that quad jump allows more difficult jumping content for the rest of jumps. So another advantage.
Looking at men cathegory - both boys and mature men, both tall and short, both muscular and thin skaters can land quad jumps, it is not restricted to one body type or prepubertal period. Number of male senior skaters attempting and landing quad jump is much higher in comparison with junior cathegory despite senior men having higher weight than junior boys. There are not many boys with stable quad jumps in junior cathegory, who would lose those jumps coming to senior cathegory.
This is not happening in ladies cathegory. Since Surya Bonally's first attempt of quad jump at competition in 1992...we are in 2024 = 32 years later and not even one mature woman is able to FULLY ROTATE quad jump at competition. Skaters who can FULLY ROTATE quad jumps are children or girls with prepubertal body, and few girls in early stage of puberty - 99,9% of them being very small and thin in comparison with mature ladies. Thanks to @eppen database we can see more and more girls trying quad jump in junior age...and leaving trying quad jump in competitions some season later because of injury or inconsistency in quad jump.
But this is just my opinion.
It is still soon to be sure. @eppen has table of quad children / girls and women, it will take another few seasons to see...
I do know about both Miki Ando and Surya Bonaly, not to forget Sasha Cohen in 2001.
But I meant FULLY ROTATED quad jump.
to Grishin.That is why I do prefer skaters to also hear that puberty and gaining weight and all troubles with jumps, coordination and stamina ARE NORMAL and OK.
There is an article about puberty from 1997 mentioning Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya and Nicole Bobek:
When Maturity Is the Enemy (Published 1997)
Qualifying rounds for world figure skating championships continue, Lausanne, Switzerland; performance of Michelle Kwan discussed; photo (M)
- ''Going through puberty on national television is hard,'' said Christy Ness, who coached the 1992 Olympic champion Kristi Yamaguchi.
Michelle Kwan, 16, the defending world champion from Torrance, Calif., started assertively today, landing a superb triple lutz, but labored through the middle of her routine. She reduced a triple flip and a triple lutz into double jumps, then finished with a single axel, advancing easily if not assuredly toward Friday's short program.
''I kind of chickened out of some jumps,'' Kwan said.
She added: ''I don't know if it's a changing of my body. I try to adjust as well as I can. It's been a little difficult the whole year. I've got to get my head straight and be more aggressive.''
As her body has developed, gaining about two inches and five pounds over the last year, Kwan said jumping feels ''totally different.'' The 5-2, 102-pound Kwan said that ''even a weight gain of one pound can make a jump lopsided.''
Watching herself on videotape, she said: ''I can see my arms moving to adjust to where my height is. I think I'm jumping higher now. When I was little, I just spun.''
- ...After losing again to Lipinski at an Olympic-style competition earlier this month in Hamilton, Ontario, Kwan said: ''In practice, sometimes I'd be a little off. I always worry: 'What's wrong with me? I can't do this. Am I thinking too much?' I have to adjust to what I have. If my body does something wacko, I'll have to adjust to it.''
- ...A year ago, Irina Slutskaya of Russia was a 17-year-old waif as she took a bronze medal at the world championships. Even now, at a fuller 5-2 and 101 pounds, she lists ''toys'' as one of her hobbies and wears no makeup except for lipstick. But she has grown two inches in the last year and her weight has begun to redistribute itself. After leaving a triple flip out of her routine and two-footing a triple lutz, Slutskaya said ''it's too early to say'' whether her changing body will lead to a change in her skating.
Nicole Bobek of Chicago, who said she struggled with a developing body from 15 through 17, is 19 now. After a back injury kept her off the ice for weeks last fall, she skated perhaps her best long program in two years today. Afterward she spoke about what awaits Lipinski as she matures.
''You think: 'What's wrong? I'm trying so hard,' '' said Bobek, who is 5-5 and 115 pounds. ''You can't understand. You have to tell yourself to be strong and that you will get through it. It's not going to last forever.''
Sasha Cohen landed nothing in competition. Neither did Bonaly.
"Bonaly says she landed most of the quadruple jumps—the Salchow, toe loop, flip, and Lutz—in practice, but was never able to cleanly complete the four rotations in a competition.
A fully validated quad at a women’s skating event didn’t happen until 2002 when Miki Ando of Japan successfully executed a quadruple salchow at the Junior Grand Prix Final. Ando tried to land the first quad at an Olympics, in 2006 but fell and only received credit for a triple.
U.S. figure skater Sasha Cohen landed a few tightly executed quads in practice at an event in 2001, but not during the competition. It wasn’t until 2018 that Russian teen Alexandra Trusova, then 13, again landed a quadruple in competition—the quad toe loop, at the Junior Grand Prix Lithuania. U.S. figure skater Alysa Liu became the first American woman to land a quad in competition in 2019, at a Junior Grand Prix event. Liu has since grown several inches taller, which has affected her jumping, and she did not include a quad jump in her free program this season."
Source: https://time.com/6143521/quadruple-jump-figure-skating-surya-bonaly/
Landing the quad successfully in competition is what counts. Not practice. The reason I put the word "again" in bold is many years passed before another woman would match what Ando already accomplished.
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- Sep 23, 2020
I came across this old interview with Akiko Suzuki. I remember you have quoted her once or twice in one of your compilation posts, but this interview is basically all about her eating disorder and healing., She is very frank and it is very candid, and I think everyone should really read it.
Akiko's story is also a success story as she developed her ED between her junior and senior careers, had to take time off skating at all to heal and also because she was just too weak to skate, but came back and actually had her biggest successes, medalling in senior competitions and participating in two Olympics as a part of Team Japan after her ED and healing which I think really important to showcase. As heartbreaking as it is, it is also a story of hope.
She also believes her experience with ED and openness to talk about it is an important factor sometimes in her work with young skaters. Although she is a choreographer now and not exactly a coach, they find her much easier to approach and talk to about their problems, knowing she went through ED which is public knowledge in Japan by now. Tough but very precious reading. I really respect her so much!
And here's the link to Akiko's bio for those who are not familiar with her career, to give some context to the story.
en.wikipedia.org
Akiko's story is also a success story as she developed her ED between her junior and senior careers, had to take time off skating at all to heal and also because she was just too weak to skate, but came back and actually had her biggest successes, medalling in senior competitions and participating in two Olympics as a part of Team Japan after her ED and healing which I think really important to showcase. As heartbreaking as it is, it is also a story of hope.
She also believes her experience with ED and openness to talk about it is an important factor sometimes in her work with young skaters. Although she is a choreographer now and not exactly a coach, they find her much easier to approach and talk to about their problems, knowing she went through ED which is public knowledge in Japan by now. Tough but very precious reading. I really respect her so much!
And here's the link to Akiko's bio for those who are not familiar with her career, to give some context to the story.
Akiko Suzuki - Wikipedia
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No, ability to land quads is not restricted to the prepubertal period, and as you note there are more adult/senior men landing quads than junior men competitors in their teens landing quads.
However, it is not true that any male skater with any genetic predisposition to any body type will be able to land quads when he reaches senior level.
Some men may have a typical body size and shape for elite skaters, but they don't have enough fast-twitch muscles or other muscle fiber composition characteristics to be able to develop enough strength and quickness to jump high enough and/or rotate quickly enough to jump quads.
Some will grow up to be extremely tall and long-legged, or significantly heavier than the skaters who are successfully landing quad. Just look at athletes in other sports, who have maximized their training to excel in those particular sports, but who also are blessed with body types that favor those sports.
Can you picture a typical pro basketball player or American football player etc. landing quads even if he had trained in figure skating rather than basketball or football from childhood?
The pool of male figure skaters is comparatively small. But within that pool, there will be boys who are successful up to junior level in their teens. But they will struggle to master triple axels and quads because their bodies will not grow to be optimized for those jumps. So either they will quit competitive skating entirely, or they may transition into pairs or dance where their skating skill will be valued without the need to rotate those difficult jumps.
And because the pool of male skaters is smaller in most countries, a larger percentage of these young men will have opportunities to have senior-level skating careers in one discipline or another. But many of them will never land quads.
Which is different from being able to land the quads as teens and then losing that ability as adults. I don't know offhand of examples of that happening. If it has, it has probably been more because of injury than because of body type per se.
But I have heard of boys who had triples and then grew too big to maintain those jumps as consistently as when they were small. For the most part, they won't make it to senior level at all.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
It's this mental aspect, I believe, that is the hardest to deal with.
Sports Journalist Christine Brennan (OK, OK, I know she's not everyone's cup of tea
) wrote a whole book about Kwan's struggles that year (The Edge of Glory). The core chapter is titled, "body, brain, and boots). These were the three B's that held her back that season.(The "boots" reference is to the contract that Michelle's father had signed with a boot company. Then, when the new boots never fit right, he was reluctant to break his word and switch to a different brand. The ill-fitting boots led to ankle injury that hindered her all that year -- she could not do her triple toe/triple toe combination because the landing of that particular jump especially caused pain.)
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- Mar 28, 2006
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Should I or should I not? Ok, let's go...
So @sisinka is right about quad attempts and age. There are right now 1223 attempts by women since 1990 and 396 have been fully rotated and 293 have a positive GOE or have been otherwise deemed clean (ie Miki Ando 2002). And 99 skaters (oooh, I so hope the 100th will appear soon enough!).
I plotted the attempts according to age and, indeed, preteens and early teens have done most of them (this calculation does not include a couple of girls whose year of birth is unknown):
Majority of the currently active skaters are in the novice/jr groups, so it remains to be seen what will happen in a couple of years when they start growing up. The ones in the late teens/early 20s group with GOE+ jumps are Tursynbaeva, Kihira, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Sumiyoshi and from today also Petrosyan. And as is well-known, Sumiyoshi is the only 20-year-old (though I still say that jump was very generously gifted to her by the tech panel).
However, even with the pre-teens and early teenagers, you have to remember that they can be in very different stages of development - some are early, some are late. Plus changes do happen also even in late teens and early 20s. There is very little data on even height because majority of them have never competed internationally in juniors when their ISU bios would reveal sth. (Though even that is not very reliable since they're not always updated regularly.) But just based on how the quads seem to disappear after 16, it seems that most adult women are really not able to do them. With 3As, the situation is much better, but that's another story.
Men have done most of the 18300 quads I have in my database and there's a lot more data on height, for example, it is perhaps possible to say a little bit more. The age when they start to attempt quads has dropped quite a lot:
21,5 years in the 1980s
20 in the 1990s and 2000s
19 in the early 2010s
17,5 in the late 2010s
16,5 in the early 2020s
When it comes to growing up, this means that more and more pre-puberty/pre-growthspurt boys are attempting quads when before they were mostly already close to or at adult height. However, the problem is that most of the young quadsters are Russians and there is no data for height. So, it's going to be difficult to trace how particularly growing height might give them problems with quads.
There are some cases, though, but those cannot be generalized. The most famous one is perhaps Stephen Gogolev who started attempting quads in domestic comps when he was 12 (2017) - don't know how tall he was then, but in 2018-19 when he went to international juniors, he was 154 cm. Then in the following seasons 162 cm, 174 cm, 179 cm, 183 cm until he reached his current height of 185 cm (ISU data). Though he did not have a huge growth spurt, gaining 20-25 cm in a couple years plus having injuries must have thrown his jumping off. He reportedly landed all but 4A in practice as a junior, but these days has mostly 4T and 4S with not great consistency.
More recently, a Swedish skater Casper Johansson started attempting 4S in comps when he was 14 and he was a tallish boy at 172 cm. Since 2020 he has gotten to 188 cm and has also had some injuries I think. He is still attempting 4S and is adding 4T. His record is not great, but it could be that growing height was also a problem and he has had trouble developing the jumps further.
Think also of Roman Sadovsky and Artem Kovalev, who were tiny juniors and now very tall seniors (in the 180s). Both have 4S, Artem also 4T, but again struggling with them. Nikolaj Memola is by far the tallest man ever to get a clean quad at 195 cm, but he is not very consistent with his 4Lz.
Some of the best quadsters ever based on quantity and quality, Chen, Hanyu, Fernandez, all started jumping them when they were already very close to their adult height. Hanyu and Fernandez match the average height for quadsters at 173 cm. Chen is a little smaller. Ilia Malinin is of similar size also, but grew up fast between 2019-20 and 2020-21 (154 to 170 cm). He started to attempt quads in comps when he was 170 cm already. So, height is maybe a factor since the very tall guys are not so very good at it.
Body type is harder to study - male figure skaters tend to be pretty slender, but looking at Elvis Stojko and thinking of his jumping brilliance, it is obvious that a muscular body is not an obstacle. Similar guys maybe Stephan Lindemann, Alexander Majorov off the top of my head, maybe even Adam Siao Him Fa. However, particularly these days when a certain amount of flexibility is necessary even for men, too much muscle is not good. (I remember Javier Fernandez saying that he had to keep away from the gym because he would have gained a lot of muscle easily and it was not good for the overall performance.)
These are just some randon thoughts. It is difficult to build any kind of significant database based on what is available, these are all just anecdotal cases and nothing can be said in general based them. Could be that better data would show my current assumptions completely wrong.
E
So @sisinka is right about quad attempts and age. There are right now 1223 attempts by women since 1990 and 396 have been fully rotated and 293 have a positive GOE or have been otherwise deemed clean (ie Miki Ando 2002). And 99 skaters (oooh, I so hope the 100th will appear soon enough!).
I plotted the attempts according to age and, indeed, preteens and early teens have done most of them (this calculation does not include a couple of girls whose year of birth is unknown):
| Age | Attempts | Fully rotated | GOE+/clean |
| 9-14 | 880 | 396 | 293 |
| 15-16 | 216 | 119 | 93 |
| 17-19 | 76 | 25 | 22 |
| 20-23 | 23 | 1 | 1 |
Majority of the currently active skaters are in the novice/jr groups, so it remains to be seen what will happen in a couple of years when they start growing up. The ones in the late teens/early 20s group with GOE+ jumps are Tursynbaeva, Kihira, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Sumiyoshi and from today also Petrosyan. And as is well-known, Sumiyoshi is the only 20-year-old (though I still say that jump was very generously gifted to her by the tech panel).
However, even with the pre-teens and early teenagers, you have to remember that they can be in very different stages of development - some are early, some are late. Plus changes do happen also even in late teens and early 20s. There is very little data on even height because majority of them have never competed internationally in juniors when their ISU bios would reveal sth. (Though even that is not very reliable since they're not always updated regularly.) But just based on how the quads seem to disappear after 16, it seems that most adult women are really not able to do them. With 3As, the situation is much better, but that's another story.
Men have done most of the 18300 quads I have in my database and there's a lot more data on height, for example, it is perhaps possible to say a little bit more. The age when they start to attempt quads has dropped quite a lot:
21,5 years in the 1980s
20 in the 1990s and 2000s
19 in the early 2010s
17,5 in the late 2010s
16,5 in the early 2020s
When it comes to growing up, this means that more and more pre-puberty/pre-growthspurt boys are attempting quads when before they were mostly already close to or at adult height. However, the problem is that most of the young quadsters are Russians and there is no data for height. So, it's going to be difficult to trace how particularly growing height might give them problems with quads.
There are some cases, though, but those cannot be generalized. The most famous one is perhaps Stephen Gogolev who started attempting quads in domestic comps when he was 12 (2017) - don't know how tall he was then, but in 2018-19 when he went to international juniors, he was 154 cm. Then in the following seasons 162 cm, 174 cm, 179 cm, 183 cm until he reached his current height of 185 cm (ISU data). Though he did not have a huge growth spurt, gaining 20-25 cm in a couple years plus having injuries must have thrown his jumping off. He reportedly landed all but 4A in practice as a junior, but these days has mostly 4T and 4S with not great consistency.
More recently, a Swedish skater Casper Johansson started attempting 4S in comps when he was 14 and he was a tallish boy at 172 cm. Since 2020 he has gotten to 188 cm and has also had some injuries I think. He is still attempting 4S and is adding 4T. His record is not great, but it could be that growing height was also a problem and he has had trouble developing the jumps further.
Think also of Roman Sadovsky and Artem Kovalev, who were tiny juniors and now very tall seniors (in the 180s). Both have 4S, Artem also 4T, but again struggling with them. Nikolaj Memola is by far the tallest man ever to get a clean quad at 195 cm, but he is not very consistent with his 4Lz.
Some of the best quadsters ever based on quantity and quality, Chen, Hanyu, Fernandez, all started jumping them when they were already very close to their adult height. Hanyu and Fernandez match the average height for quadsters at 173 cm. Chen is a little smaller. Ilia Malinin is of similar size also, but grew up fast between 2019-20 and 2020-21 (154 to 170 cm). He started to attempt quads in comps when he was 170 cm already. So, height is maybe a factor since the very tall guys are not so very good at it.
Body type is harder to study - male figure skaters tend to be pretty slender, but looking at Elvis Stojko and thinking of his jumping brilliance, it is obvious that a muscular body is not an obstacle. Similar guys maybe Stephan Lindemann, Alexander Majorov off the top of my head, maybe even Adam Siao Him Fa. However, particularly these days when a certain amount of flexibility is necessary even for men, too much muscle is not good. (I remember Javier Fernandez saying that he had to keep away from the gym because he would have gained a lot of muscle easily and it was not good for the overall performance.)
These are just some randon thoughts. It is difficult to build any kind of significant database based on what is available, these are all just anecdotal cases and nothing can be said in general based them. Could be that better data would show my current assumptions completely wrong.
E
I came across this old interview with Akiko Suzuki. I remember you have quoted her once or twice in one of your compilation posts, but this interview is basically all about her eating disorder and healing., She is very frank and it is very candid, and I think everyone should really read it.
Akiko's story is also a success story as she developed her ED between her junior and senior careers, had to take time off skating at all to heal and also because she was just too weak to skate, but came back and actually had her biggest successes, medalling in senior competitions and participating in two Olympics as a part of Team Japan after her ED and healing which I think really important to showcase. As heartbreaking as it is, it is also a story of hope.
She also believes her experience with ED and openness to talk about it is an important factor sometimes in her work with young skaters. Although she is a choreographer now and not exactly a coach, they find her much easier to approach and talk to about their problems, knowing she went through ED which is public knowledge in Japan by now. Tough but very precious reading. I really respect her so much!
And here's the link to Akiko's bio for those who are not familiar with her career, to give some context to the story.
Akiko Suzuki - Wikipedia
I didn't read this interview before. I was reposting Akiko's story from other shorter articles.
Like you mentioned Akiko Suzuki is world known successful retired skater. World Bronze medalist from 2012. She won 2 Grand Prix and medalled many times, she earned silver and bronze medal from 3 Grand Prix Finals.
I do remember her competitive and gala programs being original (especially I do remember Kill Bill and O programs in 2012-13). She was always very strong in presentation.
Interview is very open and personal. Going through first part of the interview where Akiko describes her Eating Disorder's experience, I have to say that it left very strong emotional impression on me. Her openess and straightforwardness lead to realise how much a nightmare Eating Disorders are.
It shows the inner world of a person who suffers from the disease. While other articles are usually showing flashes of what skaters went through, this is very detailed.
The final part gives courage and support to young athletes.
THE STORY DEFINITELY WORTH READING.
I believe that this is eye-opening interview and should be read by all people involved in Figure Skating World - skaters, coaches, members of Federation, ISU members...everybody.
I suggest not to read the first part while being very tired or mentally down. We are all different and reactions may be different.
For early teen skaters I would prefer their parents to read it first and decide whether it is better to make them read all parts OR if it would be more suitable to re-tell them some parts of the story.
Akiko is incredibly strong and brave. She works continuously to help other people to avoid troubles she went through.
I can only be sad that she is probably spending most time in Japan, not in other countries. Her knowledge and kind will to help others would be needed everywhere.
I want to repost the later part of the interview where she encourages young athletes:
"...And what Suzuki-san tells them is to "Hold hands with your weak self and continue to walk forwards."
All humans carry some weaknesses. But even if you can't face those weaknesses, hold their hand and walk towards your dreams. That's the message that Suzuki-san, who recovered from an eating disorder, sends towards young athletes.
Suzuki: Right now, I'm traveling all over the country as a choreographer. So there are more opportunities for me to interact with children from a different place than the coaches who always watch them. So when I'm finished choreographing in the rink, some of the kids spill their worries to me. Even if it doesn't go as far as an eating disorder, there are those with worries about their body, and worries about their skills can affect their mental state. For example, if you were able to jump before but can't any more, and you're no longer getting the results you want, you might think about the future and whether or not you should continue skating. And it's not just the children. Sometimes the supporting parents will come talk to me after lessons like "My daughter is actually like..." or "How was it like for you?" It's like I'm the school nurse (laugh). And maybe the reason why those children and parents ask me about those things is because I experienced an eating disorder. So I think that maybe there are things that only I am able to talk about, so I make sure to talk a lot with them..."
Thank you for sending @Magill .
Don't be angry of me @Arigato , but I would like to finish the discussion about Miki Ando. I do respect her as a great skater and performer, I still remember her Scheherazade and Gabriel's Oboe in 2007 and 2011 World Short Programs. Her contribution to international figure skating goes far behind her quad salchow.
But my interest goes to FULLY ROTATED quad jumps at competitions and possibility of landing them with mature body in ladies competition. Answer on this question may help to determine whether exactly quad jump in ladies cathegory is potentially dangerous in meaning of supporting eating troubles and Eating Disorders in Junior and Senior female cathegory. Which can be a possibility in case that children, girls and ladies will prove us that having mature body it is not possible to fully rotate quad jump at competition.
I also don't count quad jumps at practise.
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I know that Miki's attempt was accepted, which I never wanted to question, but her attempts were not fully rotated in both junior and senior cathegory.
Yes, that is exactly why I would like to see people around to support and encourage the skater. (Instead of pushing the skater to keep prepubertal weight.)
Positive approach in puberty time will help skaters to overcome difficulties better and faster.
Sure, like @gkelly mentioned, not everybody will be able to deal with the most difficult jumps with grown-up body. But figure skating is beautiful even from other places, not just from the top of the podium. And there are many other great things both in skating world and outside of skating world.
There is detailed analysis in your post. You are right.
My approach was different from yours. I didn't study all athletes...whether they are or are not able to land quad jump.
On the contrary I took all quad male skaters I was able to remember (I definitely don't know all, especially junior male skaters) and looked at their height, weight, age, body type and puberty stage. And compared it to quad female skaters.
I will use terms like grown-up height, weight, which I do realise has nothing to do with scientific research or objective measurements. And like @eppen mentioned we don't have precise informations from all skaters. I don't have database to make more precise analysis like @eppen greatly does.
@eppen wrote great notes about puberty and development:
I fully agree, which makes the definition of "mature" or "grown-up" skater even more difficult.
Once again I concentrate on FULLY ROTATED quad jumps.
MALE CATHEGORY:
1) Height.
Shoma Uno (158 cm), Yuma Kagiyama (161 cm), Nathan Chen (166 cm), Adam SHF (167 cm), Elvis Stojko (170 cm), Alexei Yagudin (175 cm), Evgeni Plushenko (178 cm), Brian Joubert and Alexander Abt (179 cm), Ilia Kulik and Stephen Gogolev (185 cm).
Some juniors with quad jump can have smaller height probably.
The exception looks to be Nikolai Memola with 195 cm.
I may guess that most of skaters are probably between 160 and 175 cm.
Overall height varies from 158 to 185 cm (195 cm for Nikolai).
Overall quad male skaters are landing clean and fully rotated quad jumps in competition even while having grown-up height.
2) Weight.
From Yuma Kagiyama (51 kg) to Elvis Stojko (70 kg) and Ilia Kulik (73 kg).
Some juniors can have smaller weight probably.
Overall weight varies but looking at numbers, it looks like...
Quad male skaters are landing clean and fully rotated quad jumps in competitions even while having weight of grown-up men.
3) Age.
Oldest quad men landing quad were over 30 years old (for example Evgeni Plushenko, Michal Brezina, Konstantin Menshov, Sergei Voronov, Keegan Messing...). Nobunari Oda being the oldest - 36 years old.
Gleb Lutfullin landed first clean quad jump in autumn 2018 (14 years).
Lev Nazarev born in November 2009 landed clean quad toeloop in October 2022 (12 years old)
Arseny Fedotov born in September 2009 landed first quad jump in Nov 2022 (13 years old).
Overall age varies.
Quad male skaters are landing clean and fully rotated quad jumps in competitions even in grown-up age.
4) Body types and puberty stage.
Many men are older than 20 years, some are more than 30 years old.
We can see muscular skaters - @eppen already mentioned Elvis Stojko, Stefan Lindemann, Alexander Majorov. Yes, I would also agree with Adam Siao Him Fa. I would also add Alexei Yagudin, Brian Joubert, Keegan Messing.
Other quad skaters have lean muscles. There are quad skaters with wide shoulders and chest...or those ones with narrow shoulders and chest.
Some quad skaters are very thin - I would use Kevin Reynolds, Nobunari Oda, Boyang Jin like an examples.
Quad male skaters are landing clean and fully rotated quad jumps in competition despite having different body types and being in post - pubertal stage.
FEMALE CATHEGORY:
Coming to girls and ladies fully rotating quad jumps.
1) Height.
I guess that the tallest are Maia Khromych and Sofia Samodelkina. BUT - the last time when Maia landed clean quad jump in competition was March 2021 (Russian Cup final) - what was her height in that moment? 160 cm? 165 cm?
Sofia Samodelkina landed clean fully rotated quad jumps in December 2021. In 2024 she was 170 cm tall. In December 2021 she was 161 cm. (https://fs-gossips.com/7638/ - article was written in Jan 2022, but original source was from December 2021).
Kamila Valieva was 163 cm tall in February 2023 (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Валиева,_Камила_Валерьевна ).
Anna Shcherbakova was 161 cm at the Olympics 2022 (https://fs-gossips.com/11466/ ).
I do suppose other girls fully rotating quad jumps are smaller. Being in novice cathegory - 135 cm to 150 cm?
At the moment it looks like 163 cm of height is the top for any quad female skater to land clean and fully rotated quad jump in competition.
2) Weight.
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Anna Shcherbakova at Olympics 2022 - 42 kg on 161 cm (https://fs-gossips.com/11466/ ). But in another interview she mentioned she had 40 kg at the Olympics.
Sasha Trusova. Internet sources mentions 42 kg. If this was the weight at the Olympics 2022 or if it was a little bit more, I don't know.
Kamila Valieva - at the Olympics 2022 her weight was 45 kg based on Youtube video above.
Kamila landed clean fully rotated quad jump at March 2023.
https://youtu.be/TH_T-_zW8Ac?si=ntmqY0-4B_y7Hs16 - Kamila's quad toeloop at 3:27.
What was her weight at those time (being 163 cm tall based on Internet)? Interner sources mention 48 or 49 kg, but I think that it could be not actual information.
Adeliia Petrosyan is very small (from 140 cm to 150 cm based on Internet) and very thin, I guess she is not over 40 kg (no source).
Other girls are novices or juniors, I expect their weight to be between 28 to 40 kilograms.
At the moment it looks like that all quad female skaters are under 45 kilograms. With one exception of Kamila Valieva having higher weight. Is Kamila the exception like Nikolai Memola with height or does it mean start of bright future for female quad jumps?
3) Age.
No lady being over 20 years old didn't fully rotated quad jump in competition.
Elizaveta Tursynbaeva was 19 years old (158 cm, visually she had postponed puberty at World Championships 2019).
Anna Shcherbakova and Alexandra Trusova were 17 years old at the Olympics when they landed quad jumps for the last time (Anna), or fully rotated quad jump at the competition for the last time (Alexandra).
Rion Sumiyoshi's attempt at Grand Prix France 2023 (20 years old) was counted by Technical panel, but it was underrotated. (https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzOl6psuYyz/?igsh=djM4NnR4MGp2bmM4 - with slow motion)
At the moment it looks like that quad female skaters are able to land clean and fully rotated quad jump in competition being in teen age only.
4) Body type and puberty stage.
There is visible preference to prepubertal body. Judging visually Sasha Trusova and Anna Shcherbakova were on early stage of puberty (but having terribly low weight).
The only exception is Kamila Valieva once again, who looked to be in later part of puberty in March 2023 (being 16, almost 17 years old). But 16 / 17 years old girl cannot serve like an example of grown-up body.
At the moment quad female skaters with clean and fully rotated quad jump in competition have mostly prepubertal body. Taken this into account I don't see a sense in judging body type.
For both female and male skaters I put injury factor aside at the moment.
-------------
We can all see that grown-up ladies are capable of landing triple jumps, triple - triple combinations, even triple axel. Doing the same analysis I am sure we would see much bigger range in height / weight / age / body type.
But comparing characteristics above for female and male QUAD skater... At the moment in my eyes quad jumps in female cathegory are temporary thing (having prepubertal body with extremely low weight).
What it can possibly mean for the future?
- Teen female skaters suffering from eating troubles to keep prepubertal body and extremely low weight no matter what to keep quad jumps.
- Grown-up female skaters suffering from eating troubles, because they will try to reach "the ideal weight" for quad jumps to be competitive with teen girls having prepubertal body.
- Lower motivation for grown-up female skaters to compete, because you need prepubertal body to land quad jumps and win.
- Lower motivation for junior female skaters entering puberty in classical range of age (between ages 8 and 13).
- More mental health issues, because grown-up ladies are not "that tiny" and tiny girls are "not able to keep the right weight" entering puberty.
- More injuries thanks to malnutrition. More career ending injuries.
It is possible that Kamila can prove me wrong in few years. Is Sasha Trusova coming back? Both ladies have high jumps. If their height's of toeloop / lutz is not enough to fully rotate quad jump, then I really doubt that quad jump performed by grown-up female skater is possible.
Mao Shimada slowly enters puberty, but she has few years to reach at least 20 years. Adeliia Petrosyan and small Japanese ladies - they can gain from small height (automatically it can mean lower weight, even with grown-up body). Sofia Samodelkina wants to land quad jump again.
Once again it needs to be proven, those are only preliminary suggestions. We are in the beginning.
Thank you so much!
I would never ever be able to create such table and make such analysis. Your database is impressive!
As to Rion Sumiyoshi, I am glad everytime when she lands quad toeloop, because falls from quad jumps are hard and painfull. Technical panel at Grand Prix in France 2023 counted it, but from slow motion it was clearly underrotated (https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzOl6psuYyz/?igsh=djM4NnR4MGp2bmM4 ). Which means that in reality we have zero fully rotated quad jump in 20+ group.
Great other notes as well.
Sooner @Magill wrote few notes about Yuzuru's nutrition.
There is an article from November 2024 with Yuzuru Hanyu speaking about nutrition with Hidefumi Kurihara, the team leader of Ajinomoto Co., Inc.’s “Victory Project (VP)”, which supports the Japanese national team.
- "Yuzuru: ...when I was 17 years old. It was in April 2012, the summer after moving from Sendai to Toronto, Canada. At that time, I was a high school sophomore with no interest in food at all.
...I have a weak stomach, so there are times when I can eat and times when I can’t. It was right after moving to Canada, and there were instances when local ingredients and dishes didn’t suit me. Starting with what was easy to eat, then considering the way and timing of nutrition intake. When I couldn’t eat, I incorporated supplements and learned a lot. Our sport requires certain restrictions for jumping, and I was afraid of getting heavy. There was a strong emphasis on dieting over nutrition.
...Q: It was two years after Sochi. While managing body weight and composition, we also quantified daily training amounts and intensity as “load” and monitored changes over time to align them with performance.
Yuzuru:...We debated whether it was better to have the body weight I had when I was performing at my best or to gain more muscle strength in pursuit of the quad axel.
...“Tendons” connect muscles to bones and act like springs, storing and reusing elastic energy. Using this reflex to attempt the quad Axel, Hanyu actively consumed amino acids leading up to the Beijing Olympics and focused on strengthening."
There is an article from November 2024 with Yuzuru Hanyu speaking about nutrition with Hidefumi Kurihara, the team leader of Ajinomoto Co., Inc.’s “Victory Project (VP)”, which supports the Japanese national team.
Yuzuru Hanyu: “Honestly, I was extremely frustrated with my performance at the Beijing Olympics. But I believe exhibitions reveal an athlete’s true qualities. I was determined to make my very last performance the best.”
Interview with Yuzuru Hanyu about nutrition in preparation for the Olympics and quad axel.
fs-gossips.com
- "Yuzuru: ...when I was 17 years old. It was in April 2012, the summer after moving from Sendai to Toronto, Canada. At that time, I was a high school sophomore with no interest in food at all.
...I have a weak stomach, so there are times when I can eat and times when I can’t. It was right after moving to Canada, and there were instances when local ingredients and dishes didn’t suit me. Starting with what was easy to eat, then considering the way and timing of nutrition intake. When I couldn’t eat, I incorporated supplements and learned a lot. Our sport requires certain restrictions for jumping, and I was afraid of getting heavy. There was a strong emphasis on dieting over nutrition.
...Q: It was two years after Sochi. While managing body weight and composition, we also quantified daily training amounts and intensity as “load” and monitored changes over time to align them with performance.
Yuzuru:...We debated whether it was better to have the body weight I had when I was performing at my best or to gain more muscle strength in pursuit of the quad axel.
...“Tendons” connect muscles to bones and act like springs, storing and reusing elastic energy. Using this reflex to attempt the quad Axel, Hanyu actively consumed amino acids leading up to the Beijing Olympics and focused on strengthening."
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Akiko Suzuki gave this short interview where she shares that during therapy she discovered it was the relationship with her mother that was at the root of her eating disorder. She was the only child and as such she was the only one to carry her parents' expectations and ambitions, and felt obligated to meet them. She felt her parents wanted her to excel in everything she did, to be perfect, so she felt burdened with these expectations and compelled to find everything easy and achievable. When she noticed girls around her started to lose their jumps, she panicked and went to extremes just not to lose her "perfect daughter" image.... It was reshaping their mother-daughter relationship that was crucial to her healing.
This is an interesting point of view as it points to the potential underlying causes for ED. I have a feeling it's been usually talked about as fuelled by skaters' athletic goals and ambitions, but she points to the secondary nature of these goals. Most of all, she wanted to satisfy her parents, and to this aim she used her achievements in skating, jumping was only means to winning, and winning was only means to meet her parents' expectations and prove she was a perfect daughter.
To me, it is a slightly different and precious perspective, and offering some deeper insight into the ED dynamics.
The article is in Japanese but you can easily translate it using your browser translation tool. It is a summary of a longer interview which is behind the paywall so cannot be linked.
This is an interesting point of view as it points to the potential underlying causes for ED. I have a feeling it's been usually talked about as fuelled by skaters' athletic goals and ambitions, but she points to the secondary nature of these goals. Most of all, she wanted to satisfy her parents, and to this aim she used her achievements in skating, jumping was only means to winning, and winning was only means to meet her parents' expectations and prove she was a perfect daughter.
To me, it is a slightly different and precious perspective, and offering some deeper insight into the ED dynamics.
The article is in Japanese but you can easily translate it using your browser translation tool. It is a summary of a longer interview which is behind the paywall so cannot be linked.
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