Finlandia Trophy 04 -06.10. 2013

[TontoK]

I agree. It's distracting, especially when the vocals go on and on and on. It's the same problem I have with Weaver & Poje's FD.

Agreed. I liked the opening very much, but lost interest at the twizzles. I think that's about when the vocals kicked in.

 

[ice coverage]

Comments from Virtue/Moir after FD (from the Finlandia Trophy site, thus the stilted English):

- Our free dance was strong skating. We changed one lift last week, which added a little bit pressure on us. We will change it back to how it was, told the couple.

- Our lifts are so difficult that they wear off Scott’s shirt, which must be changed to a new one after each competition, they added laughing.

http://www.stll.fi/finlandia_trophy/?x2830320=3901659 (Oct 5)​

 

[ordinary person]

They have the right to wear pink tights and dye their hair green but that doesn't mean that we have to like it. It is very obvious that wearing those tights it is not a good thing for Liza but of course she can do whatever she wants. The dress she was wearing is a very delicate one with no sleeves, very short that has nothing to do with some black tights (in a different kind of black) that she use to wear at practice. I've seen recently at Nebelhorn a very beautiful girl, tall with skinny legs, I think from Bulgaria, coached by Andrei Lutai, who wore some very thin and delicate tights that matched very well her also delicate dress. It looked great, something that made me remember her. Also Fleur Maxwell wore the same kind of thin tights for her long program. Nobody said anything about why they wore them because they didn't hurt the eye. Figure skating has to be artistic from head to toes.
And about the petition it was a joke but what I was trying to say is that it would be nice if the skaters would receive some feedback from their fans. For example, some skaters show pictures of their new costumes on facebook or twitter asking for opinions. The "petition" was a nice thought, not a bad one, to help Liza, because I am sure that at some point she will grow up enough to get rid of those tights and show us the lady she has become. She is too pretty and too young to hide behind some black costumes, always the same, just because she thinks she is too fat. She never wore the tights, nor black dresses before last year when she had the grow spurt.

You're right about some parts but wearing black tights has got nothing to do with being fat, i'm not sure how anyone can think of that.
Secondly, wearing non flesh-colored tights regardless of color for instance doesn't make you much less of a lady.

 

[karne]

So I don't completely hate Artur's new SP on first view. I didn't immediately love it, but I didn't immediately hate it, either. In fact, this feels rather like how I felt after seeing Jason's Prince SP for the first time. Hmm. I think this one will grow on me though and DAMN HE WAS SO CLOSE to nailing that 4T. Hope he keeps his chin up and doesn't lose confidence!

I actually really like Liza's SP. She really works it and sells it. Sure the jumps aren't there, but they don't need to be yet. Finlandia is fairly irrelevant. For Artur he needs to focus on kicking butt in two weeks and for Liza, three weeks. This competition is a good trial run to work out the kinks.

On the flip side, Artur's spins show us everything that is wrong with IJS spins. He is forced to pull himself into these horrible positions to try and get levels when clearly something has gone wrong and he can no longer do a nice donut or pancake. He's gunning for a back injury like that. I wonder how long before the men start suffering a spate of back injuries and the ISU has to face facts...

 

[Mao88]

LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Julia LIPNITSKAIA (RUS) - 65.49 Short Program, 2nd Copy
2. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 64.57 Short Program
3. Vanessa LAM (USA) - 56.31 Short Program
4. Mirai NAGASU (USA) - 54.01 Short Program, 2nd Copy
5. Isabelle OLSSON (SWE) - 52.17 Short Program, 2nd Copy
6. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 52.13 Short Program
7. Juulia TURKKILA (FIN) - 45.61
8. Risa SHOJI (JPN) - 44.71 Short Program

MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) - 84.66 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 79.74 Short Program
3. Douglas RAZZANO (USA) - 71.89 Short Program
4. Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL) - 69.18 Short Program, 2nd Copy
5. Kento NAKAMURA (JPN) - 67.83 Short Program
6. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) - 67.34 Short Program, 2nd Copy
7. Maciej CIEPLUCHA (POL) - 66.86
8. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 65.82 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

SHORT DANCE & FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 167.87 Short Dance, Free Dance, FD - 2nd Copy, Interview
2. Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES (USA) - 143.06 Short Dance, Free Dance, FD - 2nd Copy
3. Justyna PLUTOWSKA & Peter GERBER (POL) - 131.71 Free Dance
4. Isabella TOBIAS & Deividas STAGNIUNAS (LTU) - 130.33 Free Dance
5. Henna LINDHOLM & Ossi KANERVO (FIN) - 124.33 Free Dance

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Dance: Underwhelmed by V/M's new FD. It's pretty, it's nice, but I'm left with the feeling this is a sequel to a movie I've already seen, and the original is always better than the sequel. I also didn't like Carmen program last year, but at least it was a program that you couldn't really envision any couples except V/M trying it. Much of this program looks a bit too generic, even though I'm sure it's deceptively difficult. I loathe C/B's FD. I'm not the biggest fan of Les Miz music for skating but this is just bad. I agree with previous comments about the vocal section completely overwhelming the dance. The music reduced their dancing to an afterthought, and it was hard to stay focused watching it. They should rethink this. Also not fond of her dress--pink is not a good Chock color and she looks like she's skating in her nightgown. I liked the T/S James Bond program, they pulled it off well, and the Polish couple's program...even though it makes me think of Denis Ten.

 

[seniorita]

^Thank you a lot or the vids, so far i ve watched hanyu nd all the ladies, Akiko's program is beautiful . And Julia was surprising well, I miss the Liza with the orange/red dress she wore in her first Scate Canada. I dont like that she wears black the last couple of years. They dont experiment a lot with her programs too.

 

[bladz123]

I want to chime in....Having watched V and M on this small screen I can only say wow! both the short and free are playing to their strengths but still a challenge. The movements are perfect to the music and art is created. I dont see art and dance in the other programs yet this year. I have seen nothing live but this is a great year. Being Oly champs and trying to repeat is very hard, many of the fans will sit back and take potshots at them. I am not tainted by comments made by others but rather by what I see. Both of the top 2 teams have material that has potential but both of V and M's programs here show amazing strength, quiet gentle qualities and a joining of music and movement. As usual the canadians have made difficult look easy while the other flail away at the overboard attempt to present to the audience and judges. The short dance has a finnstep in the middle that is the best we have seen, the caller in Finland was mistaken with levels. The rest of the short is like the 2010 oringinal dance, unbeatable. The Free dance is just that, free of garish arm waving "I dont know what else to do" movements but filled with good skating, great and appropiate lifts. The spin is a special moment, phrased well and very interesting. The steps are great but must get stronger so that they receive the correct level and goe score. I dont put much into marks just yet. Home country false scoring vs over the top (really over the low) low scores don't mean anything yet. A great season waits and I only hope that sophisticated and resonable people will judge and promote all qualities. Looking forward to the Grand Prix season

 

[TontoK]

bladz123:

What you've written about scoring is interesting to me. Its something I've always wondered about:

How much do levels and so forth vary from competition to competition? I'm still, even yet, confused about that... It would seem that the requirements for various levels of, say, footwork, are clearly defined. Either a skater does, or does not, fulfill the requirements for a particular level, and it wouldn't matter if the skate occurred on home ice or in Timbuktu. At least it would seem so, on paper at least.

Like you, I want to see both teams develop their programs to their maximum extent, and I can't wait to see how it plays out.

However, even this early in the season, I'm looking at the scoring differences across the competitions, and I don't know if a 10 point differential in the FD can be contributed wholly to "home cooking." Especially since D/W, like V/M, also left some points on the table so far as levels go.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for this program, even though I don't share it... at least yet. Maybe it will grow on me as they polish it.

 

[GF2445]

This Free Dance is very beautiful and it highlights Tessa and Scott's strengths, which is great because it is their last competitive season. i think both the Americans (meryl/charlie) and Canadians (tessa/scott) both made programs that highlighted their strengths as skaters this season in both programs. At this moment it seems that the judges are swinging their support to the Americans but you can never know- the judging at these senior b comps can be questionable at times.

The Americans were judged generously in Salt Lake and the Canadians were stinged in Finland. I still think that they are closer than what their scores tell us- we need to wait for the Grand Prix before the truth can be revealed but the Canadians are in it tough but the Americans cant rest much on these results for security.

We just also note that at salt lake, the Technical Controller (a key person who decides and evaluates levels) was an American and at Finlandia, there was no Canadian on the technical panel. Getting the levels fromthe technical panel is vital and having someone from your own country on the technical panel is a big thing and cannot be understated.

 

[KKonas]

We just also note that at salt lake, the Technical Controller (a key person who decides and evaluates levels) was an American and at Finlandia, there was no Canadian on the technical panel. Getting the levels fromthe technical panel is vital and having someone from your own country on the technical panel is a big thing and cannot be understated.

Yes, but Mr. Elek from Hungary was the tech specialist at SLC and Finlandia. He did both competitions.

 

[gmyers]

I actually really like Liza's SP. She really works it and sells it. Sure the jumps aren't there, but they don't need to be yet. Finlandia is fairly irrelevant. For Artur he needs to focus on kicking butt in two weeks and for Liza, three weeks. This competition is a good trial run to work out the kinks.
...

It was just a classic Liza SP. It can be the same way at any point of the season.

 

[GF2445]

Yes, but Mr. Elek from Hungary was the tech specialist at SLC and Finlandia. He did both competitions.

If that is so, this brimgs the question of how the evaluated. In general, the marking at Finlandia was quite harsh in comparison to Salt Lake.

 

[silverlake22]

I don't get the black tights on Liza. She is very short, but for her height, her legs are actually pretty long. And sure, they are quite muscular, but in a shapely and toned way, not an unattractive way at all so she should feel no need to try and hide them with thick black tights. It just messes up her line and the overall look of the costume. She is very pretty, she's in good shape, the dress is nice, so what if she doesn't look like the Finnish sprites, she should embrace who she is and just wear normal tights! Her legs don't need to be lengthened and the dress itself is a flattering cut for her, overall she'd look way better by ditching those awful tights. She beat Carolina Kostner in the FS at Europeans!! Have some confidence girl!

 

[coolboogie22]

The problem with Mirai is she doesn't connect at all with the audience or the music, it is like watching a bot. Even if she landed quads, I would be bored. The sad thing is, she has always had all kinds of talent, and off the ice, she has a terrific personality. Quite frankly, she skates as if someone is holding a gun to her head.

I agree! She needs to comeback her dynamic personnality on the ice. She was a joy to watch below 2011. Mirai should accept her personnality even if it looks junior, it doesn't matter like example Mao Asada last SP was very junior but it pay off because it bring the real personnality of Mao.

Mirai could be amazing, if only she accept to be herself and have fun in her program like before

 

[ordinary person]

I don't get the black tights on Liza. She is very short, but for her height, her legs are actually pretty long. And sure, they are quite muscular, but in a shapely and toned way, not an unattractive way at all so she should feel no need to try and hide them with thick black tights. It just messes up her line and the overall look of the costume. She is very pretty, she's in good shape, the dress is nice, so what if she doesn't look like the Finnish sprites, she should embrace who she is and just wear normal tights! Her legs don't need to be lengthened and the dress itself is a flattering cut for her, overall she'd look way better by ditching those awful tights. She beat Carolina Kostner in the FS at Europeans!! Have some confidence girl!

Black tights are normal tights like any other color, at least with these tights you don't look like you're half naked on the ice which is totally unrealistic.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I want to chime in....Having watched V and M on this small screen I can only say wow! both the short and free are playing to their strengths but still a challenge. The movements are perfect to the music and art is created. I dont see art and dance in the other programs yet this year. I have seen nothing live but this is a great year. Being Oly champs and trying to repeat is very hard, many of the fans will sit back and take potshots at them. I am not tainted by comments made by others but rather by what I see. Both of the top 2 teams have material that has potential but both of V and M's programs here show amazing strength, quiet gentle qualities and a joining of music and movement. As usual the canadians have made difficult look easy while the other flail away at the overboard attempt to present to the audience and judges. The short dance has a finnstep in the middle that is the best we have seen, the caller in Finland was mistaken with levels. The rest of the short is like the 2010 oringinal dance, unbeatable. The Free dance is just that, free of garish arm waving "I dont know what else to do" movements but filled with good skating, great and appropiate lifts. The spin is a special moment, phrased well and very interesting. The steps are great but must get stronger so that they receive the correct level and goe score. I dont put much into marks just yet. Home country false scoring vs over the top (really over the low) low scores don't mean anything yet. A great season waits and I only hope that sophisticated and resonable people will judge and promote all qualities. Looking forward to the Grand Prix season

ALL OF THE TOP SKATERS IN SLC WERE RIDICULOUSLY OVERSCORED. It wasn't a case of National Inflation or special pleading for D/W.

This is the kind of uber comment that drives me nuts.

 

[elle_e]

If anyone's combed through the score sheets, you may have noticed that Tessa and Scott had lower base values than the other five teams in the top six for their free dance. Their GOEs were not actually that low, it was their Base Value that lead to a low TES. I actually found their spin and lifts better than Madison and Evan - who had a slight stumble in their first combination lift yet still were rewarded a level 4.

Now for an in depth analysis of scoring at Finlandia vs. SLC (feel free to skip it if it is too long):

Using the two top teams, or in this case my two favourite teams as examples:

Total Element Scores:

Tessa and Scott had a total element score of 45.23 and a base value of 33.20.
Subtract one from the other and that leaves a GOE score of 12.03.
Apply the same mathematics to Meryl and Charlie's score and you get a GOE score of 12.97.
So only a 0.94 difference between the two teams.

So let's scrutinise the technical panel and how this affected the scoring.
Tessa and Scott had a base value of 33.20 compared to Meryl and Charlie's 40.20. 7 points between the two teams.
That's what made all the difference. Let me point out to you this indeed was a recurring issue between Finlandia and
SLC.

Lifts:
Level 4 : 4 points.
Level 3 : 3.5 points
Level 2 : 2.5 points
Level 1 ：1.5 points

Tessa and Scott had 3 level 4 lifts, and 1 level 1 lift.
Meryl and Charlie had 4 level 4 lifts, which already has them 2.5 points ahead on the Base Values.

Step Sequences:

Level 4: 8 points
Level 3: 6.5 points
Level 2: 5 points
Level 1: 3.5 points

Tessa and Scott scored levels 3 and 2 on their step sequences.
Meryl and Charlie scored level 3's on both. So another 1.5 points lost here for Tessa and Scott.

The same concept applies to the rest of their elements.
Tessa and Scott had lower levels on their elements overall, and hence the 7 point difference in the Base Value.

And as for the always high PCS for both teams, Tessa and Scott only scored 1.44 points lower than Meryl and Charlie.

So yes, I am agreeing that the technical panel, not the judges, were much harsher at Finlandia.

The team from Lithuania must have improved a lot in less than a month, because they scored nearly 10 points higher at Finlandia
than SLC. Same goes for the Polish team who scored about 12 points higher. :think:

I really do like Tessa and Scott's program, but it seems like they are trying to reinvent Mahler for the upcoming Olympic season. Their short dance was very classy and elegant, and they've really chosen styles that are so 'them'. All in all, an excellent debut. Can't wait to see how they've improved by the Grand Prix series.

 

[loopy]

I have found last year's synchro teams for the Finlandia Trophy but not this year's event. Does anyone know if they will be online?

 

[swurvestar]

I have found last year's synchro teams for the Finlandia Trophy but not this year's event. Does anyone know if they will be online?

Yes, I'm very interested in this too! Unfortunately, I know there's not too many synchro fans on here. I know there was a bunch of drama years ago about teams posting on forums and a lot of teams aren't allowed to anymore, which is probably why there isn't much interest on here.

I'm pleased to see Team Unique placed first. I've always been a big fan of them, so it's great to see them do so well.