Frank Carroll to Assist with Team USA Mentoring Program

[mrrice]

I don't understand why you have such a problem with this. It's sanctioned by the USFS(A). Also, it's actually benefiting Max and other TEAM USA skaters that Carroll is working with. You should be thrilled. (Heck, I might actually be able to tolerate Max's skating this year).

I love Max and of all the skaters, he really needs a couple more visits from Frank. He's great technically, and you can tell he wants to improve and regain his title. I know some don't agree but, I think Tom is great for Max. Max is a masculine skater and I don't think he'd feel comfortable skating any other style. I remember Tim Goebel being a robotic snooze when I first saw him and after Frank, he was one of my favorites.

Did Frank offer his services to all the skaters or just senior A team members who represent the US internationally?

 

[aromaticchicken]

This is all just window dressing imo, and I doubt some are being straight forward about how they really feel about it. What can you really accomplish in such a short period of time? I assume he is not spending weeks with them.

As a musician and performer who has taken clinics and one on one private lessons from professors of music, there is a LOT one can learn from even 30 minutes or a couple of hours from a teacher. Sometimes a fresh, experienced eye can do wonders toward changing your perspective toward both technique and performance execution.

If that weren't the case, why would tons of skaters have similar arrangements with other coaches around the world? Polina Edmunds used to seek out occasional help from frank despite having a full time coaching team of her own. Clearly she thought this was useful.

 

[mrrice]

As a musician and performer who has taken clinics and one on one private lessons from professors of music, there is a LOT one can learn from even 30 minutes or a couple of hours from a teacher. Sometimes a fresh, experienced eye can do wonders toward changing your perspective toward both technique and performance execution.

If that weren't the case, why would tons of skaters have similar arrangements with other coaches around the world? Polina Edmunds used to seek out occasional help from frank despite having a full time coaching team of her own. Clearly she thought this was useful.

This happens in Dance as well. The only real difference is, as judges, we are not allowed to travel to the dancers. Often, a Judge will have what we call " Clinics " and we will host them at our studio. These will generally focus on a certain area such as, Formation Design, Advanced Turn Technique, Choreography and Packaging. They are available to anyone who wants to attend and are generally for less advanced groups looking to move up the elite level.

When I was coaching, these clinics were a great learning tool. I learned so much just from seeing the way these judges taught. They were able to explain things in a way that I'd never heard and my students were just in awe of these teachers. What they learned stayed with them and they quickly advanced.

 

[aromaticchicken]

I also don't understand, does anyone actually think frank helping the ailing US team will have a NEGATIVE impact? It's neutral at worst, but has the possibility to help so many of our skaters.

Literally the worst thing that will happen from this is him neglecting gracie. However, I don't think the USFSA or Frank will let that happen; everyone's aware and I'm sure on board with keeping her status as #1 US lady

 

[IcyEdges]

My question is "Who is working with Frank's skaters?" Yes, he is helping the US team, which is great. But what are his athletes doing in the meantime? Denis Ten didn't compete at Nebelhorn due to illness but I'm sure he's working hard to prepare for the GP. Gracie competed and placed third and has plenty of feedback to help her prepare. I wonder if he made arrangements for them to work with other coaches? If he want to semi-retire, I hope he told his skaters about his mentor role ahead of time and is giving them plenty of time to make arrangements (for next season).

Seeing him working with the athletes in Colorado, I really hope the coaches and athletes were inspired! He has so many experiences to draw from and I bet he would have great stories to tell.

Frank has other coaches/choreographers and experts that help his skaters while he is and also in his absence. Ken Congemi comes to mind. As well as Scott Brown, Karen Kwan, etc. He's very up front with his skaters and I'm sure they are informed about his role as well as okay with it.

I think where most of us take issue is that Frank coaches other skaters is that question of is he giving the best advice for the skater regardless of who the 'coach' of the skater is or will preferential treatment be given to his own skaters?

Frank isn't going to steer a skater wrong just because the skater isn't "his" per se. That's not the way Frank works, and it also wouldn't have landed him in the position he is in with the USFS(A) right now.

I'm sure he is giving his students advance notice, he already said he wasn't going to take any more. And of course his own students will get preferential treatment from him, but that doesn't mean that he can't still help other skaters. Even incremental help from him is better than none at all :scowl:

:agree:

This is all just window dressing imo, and I doubt some are being straight forward about how they really feel about it. What can you really accomplish in such a short period of time? I assume he is not spending weeks with them.

As others have said, it is amazing what you can accomplish in a short period of time. Kaetlyn Osmond and others have seeked him out for one week a year (during the summer) for jump technique help. It's worked for the most part.

I also don't understand, does anyone actually think frank helping the ailing US team will have a NEGATIVE impact? It's neutral at worst, but has the possibility to help so many of our skaters.
:thumbsup:

Literally the worst thing that will happen from this is him neglecting gracie. However, I don't think the USFSA or Frank will let that happen; everyone's aware and I'm sure on board with keeping her status as #1 US lady

Pretty much, though Gracie's fate is mostly in Gracie's hands. Frank and the USFSA can only do so much.

 

[LiamForeman]

Frank isn't going to steer a skater wrong just because the skater isn't "his" per se. That's not the way Frank works, and it also wouldn't have landed him in the position he is in with the USFS(A) right now.

Pretty much, though Gracie's fate is mostly in Gracie's hands. Frank and the USFSA can only do so much.

Exactly. I don't personally know FC and haven't met him (well not true I've 'met' him a couple of times) but it is the height of disrespect to imagine a man of FC's stature, a man of integrity as far as I can tell, to think he would steer other skaters wrong in hopes of improving the results of his own skaters. When MK was kinda sorta hosed at 1995 Worlds, he didn't mount an anti-Bobek campaign. He just made MK bring that spiral up higher, get bigger jumps, and improve her overall skating. Plus get that 3/3. He's articulate and intelligent and has had great success as a coach. USFS is lucky to have him IMO.

 

[IcyEdges]

Exactly. It is the height of disrespect to imagine a man of FC's stature, a man of integrity as far as I can tell, to think he would steer other skaters wrong in hopes of improving the results of his own skaters. When MK was kinda sorta hosed at 1995 Worlds, he didn't mount an anti-Bobek campaign. He just made MK bring that spiral up higher, get bigger jumps, and improve her overall skating. Plus get that 3/3. He's articulate and intelligent and has had great success as a coach. USFS is lucky to have him IMO.

Agree 100%. :thumbsup:

 

[KKonas]

Exactly. I don't personally know FC and haven't met him (well not true I've 'met' him a couple of times) but it is the height of disrespect to imagine a man of FC's stature, a man of integrity as far as I can tell, to think he would steer other skaters wrong in hopes of improving the results of his own skaters. When MK was kinda sorta hosed at 1995 Worlds, he didn't mount an anti-Bobek campaign. He just made MK bring that spiral up higher, get bigger jumps, and improve her overall skating. Plus get that 3/3. He's articulate and intelligent and has had great success as a coach. USFS is lucky to have him IMO.

Well, I've known Frank for nearly 30 years. I was there at that Skate America just after Michelle had left his coaching after so many years together. Tears were in his eyes as we spoke but he never then or since said anything negative about Michelle or what happened. In fact, he was often Michelle's biggest supporter. I am sure Frank will give the best advice he can to any skater. He is a legend in the sport.

 

[karne]

Maybe I should rephrase. I'm glad Max is not a young lady, who would surely be then ruined by Frank's stuffy ideas of what a lady should be. #FreeGracie

 

[IcyEdges]

Maybe I should rephrase. I'm glad Max is not a young lady, who would surely be then ruined by Frank's stuffy ideas of what a lady should be. #FreeGracie

Gracie chose to go to Frank. She's an adult and old enough to make her own decisions. It's not like they tied her arms behind her back and made her move across the country to work with FC.

Also, Gracie and Lori Nichol are responsible for GG's presence/persona on the ice. There are plenty of other choreographers that FC's skaters have used in the past, this is GG's choice.

 

[ice coverage]

I love Max and of all the skaters, he really needs a couple more visits from Frank. He's great technically, and you can tell he wants to improve and regain his title. I know some don't agree but, I think Tom is great for Max. Max is a masculine skater and I don't think he'd feel comfortable skating any other style. I remember Tim Goebel being a robotic snooze when I first saw him and after Frank, he was one of my favorites.

Did Frank offer his services to all the skaters or just senior A team members who represent the US internationally?

:agree: I too hope that FC's input will help Max regain his U.S. title.

Given that FC's mentoring is funded by USFS, my assumption is that USFS decides which skaters get the opportunity to work directly with FC. Or that USFS at least is very much involved in the decision along with FC.
Newcomers to senior international competition -- Angela Wang and Maddie Aaron/Max Settlage -- have shown up in tweeted photos with FC in Colorado Springs, as have the somewhat more experienced Max Aaron and Scimeca/Knierim.
That said, I think it would be unrealistic to expect that it would be humanly possible for FC to give his personal attention to every worthy Team USA skater. Thus the importance of FC as a mentor also to Team USA coaches who can multiply his influence when they are guiding their skaters day in and day out.

 

[ice coverage]

... Did Frank offer his services to all the skaters or just senior A team members who represent the US internationally?

(1) Update for mrrice:
Within the last couple of weeks, Chase Belmontes -- a junior man -- has worked with Carroll both in Colorado Springs and at the Toyota Center. CB placed 9th at his JGP debut this year at Courchevel. His primary coach is Tom Z.

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00014894.htm​

@ChaseBelmontes

It was absolutely amazing working with Frank Carroll!!! He's fantastic and so helpful! #FrankCarrollRules
6:00 PM - 7 Oct 2014
https://twitter.com/ChaseBelmontes/status/519653530894733312 (photo from the Springs attached)​

@iceskater1234567 (CB's Instagram)

Working with Frank Carroll was amazing!!! He's fantastic and so helpful! I can't wait to work with him again!!! #FrankCarrollRules #TeamUSA
http://instagram.com/p/uDleKGhQQX/ (more photos from the Springs, posted Oct 12)​

@iceskater1234567

I had a fantastic time skating with @carlycgold and @graciegold95 at the Toyota Center, and working with Frank Carroll again!!! ....
http://instagram.com/p/uRUHvcBQSe/ (photo at the Toyota Ctr with the Golds, posted Oct 17)​

(2) Re Gracie Gold and FC:

In her media teleconference prior to Skate America, GG was asked something about her strategy for success going forward. Part of her answer was something (I'm paraphrasing) about being fine as long as she continues to train with FC.

None of the reporters on the media call asked GG to comment on if/how her training has been or will be affected by FC's new mentoring role for Team USA.
Hersh asked a general question as to how she feels about training with FC, and she had only the most positive things to say.​

 

[mrrice]

(1) Update for mrrice:
Within the last couple of weeks, Chase Belmontes -- a junior man -- has worked with Carroll both in Colorado Springs and at the Toyota Center. CB placed 9th at his JGP debut this year at Courchevel. His primary coach is Tom Z.

Thanks so much Golden411. I can't say enough how much I appreciate how knowledgeable and nice the members have been to me and each other.

"None of the reporters on the media call asked GG to comment on if/how her training has been or will be affected by FC's new mentoring role for Team USA.
Hersh asked a general question as to how she feels about training with FC, and she had only the most positive things to say."

I wonder if the Reporters were asked not to broach the subject with Gracie just in case it might be a sensitive issue. Of course, there's also a good chance that she doesn't really care who Frank assists, as long as she gets what she needs from Frank.

 

[mrrice]

Is Frank planning to work with any of the Pair Teams ? I would love to see him spend some time with Denny and Frazier. They seem like a very promising young pair and one of the things I hope he'd say to them would be.

"There is no greener grass than what you two have together. Don't let it enter your mind to ever split up. Work on your differences now, while you're young, and the rewards can be great !! "

" Trust Me "

 

[ice coverage]

Is Frank planning to work with any of the Pair Teams ? ...

Carroll already has worked with at least two pairs: Aaron/Settlage and Scimeca/Knierim.

https://twitter.com/MaddieAaron25/status/519295244148297728 (Oct 6)

https://twitter.com/Scimeca_Knierim/status/519198648907739136 (Oct 6)​

 

[mrrice]

Carroll already has worked with at least two pairs: Aaron/Settlage and Scimeca/Knierim.

https://twitter.com/MaddieAaron25/status/519295244148297728 (Oct 6)

https://twitter.com/Scimeca_Knierim/status/519198648907739136 (Oct 6)
​

Golden, you are the bomb !!!!! Thank you.:agree:

 

[ice coverage]

A few days after Nagasu returned from Japan [the Japan Open], Frank Carroll came to Colorado Springs in his new role as mentor for Team USA coaches and athletes. Carroll was Nagasu's coach until early 2012.

"It was nice to be able to work with him again," Nagasu said. "There were no hard feelings when I stopped working with him; it was just that I couldn't make the drive out to Palm Springs. We have a good connection. Frank made a few suggestions, and we're working to incorporate them."

http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/10/20/99043020 (Oct 20)​

 

[Icey]

I hope Mirai gets some encouragement at SA.

 

[flying camel]

I hope he gets to work with Cesario.

 

[el henry]

(1) Update for mrrice:
Within the last couple of weeks, Chase Belmontes -- a junior man -- has worked with Carroll both in Colorado Springs and at the Toyota Center. CB placed 9th at his JGP debut this year at Courchevel. His primary coach is Tom Z.

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00014894.htm​

@ChaseBelmontes

It was absolutely amazing working with Frank Carroll!!! He's fantastic and so helpful! #FrankCarrollRules
6:00 PM - 7 Oct 2014
https://twitter.com/ChaseBelmontes/status/519653530894733312 (photo from the Springs attached)​

@iceskater1234567 (CB's Instagram)

Working with Frank Carroll was amazing!!! He's fantastic and so helpful! I can't wait to work with him again!!! #FrankCarrollRules #TeamUSA
http://instagram.com/p/uDleKGhQQX/ (more photos from the Springs, posted Oct 12)​

@iceskater1234567

I had a fantastic time skating with @carlycgold and @graciegold95 at the Toyota Center, and working with Frank Carroll again!!! ....
http://instagram.com/p/uRUHvcBQSe/ (photo at the Toyota Ctr with the Golds, posted Oct 17)​

(2) Re Gracie Gold and FC:

In her media teleconference prior to Skate America, GG was asked something about her strategy for success going forward. Part of her answer was something (I'm paraphrasing) about being fine as long as she continues to train with FC.

None of the reporters on the media call asked GG to comment on if/how her training has been or will be affected by FC's new mentoring role for Team USA.
Hersh asked a general question as to how she feels about training with FC, and she had only the most positive things to say.​

Golden, loving all these links, but loving mostly the photo of Chase profiling with the Gold twins. It doesn't look like Gracie resents his presence.