Free Dance

[colleen o'neill]

Pogue ,thanks for dragging me out of my funk.. I agree with so much you've said.

I've been wrestling with my thoughts since last night ( closed myself down by mistake and lost a lengthy post ) Now I have to walk my dogs.....and wrestle with my wordpad a bit..and I'll be back in business.

 

[wasabi]

Pogue ,thanks for dragging me out of my funk.. I agree with so much you've said.

I've been wrestling with my thoughts since last night ( closed myself down by mistake and lost a lengthy post ) Now I have to walk my dogs.....and wrestle with my wordpad a bit..and I'll be back in business.

Glad to hear it. I was missing your posts.

 

[skatingfan04]

Your long blah blah blah about G/P etc drama...not reading it. Just find your "future" prediction is just ridiculous, nothing but just showing your bias toward certain team. It has no merit whatsoever. You basically call someone guilty before you even know the nature of the case.

Come now, that's a little out of line, don't you think? If you're allowed to express your opinion, so is everyone else. If you choose not to read, that's your business. No need to be rude about it. Furthermore, I fail to see how your comments lack the bias that you are accusing the rest of us of having.

The comments being made about G/P are not without evidence, either. They managed to score within 6 points of W/P, who despite what your opinion of them may be, are the 4th ranked team in the world right now. They were a mere 11 points shy of the olympic ice dance champions, who just broke the world record in the FD last month. All of that doesn't strike you as a little odd?

 

[museksk8r]

They were a mere 11 points shy of the olympic ice dance champions, who just broke the world record in the FD last month. All of that doesn't strike you as a little odd?

Virtue/Moir were really off in this event though; you can't deny that. An extended lift deduction in the FD, not getting the highest levels on their elements in the SD and the FD, the major stumble in the SD twizzle. Their Olympic title should not automatically entitle them to super high scores despite having mistakes.

 

[wasabi]

Come now, that's a little out of line, don't you think? If you're allowed to express your opinion, so is everyone else. If you choose not to read, that's your business. No need to be rude about it. Furthermore, I fail to see how your comments lack the bias that you are accusing the rest of us of having.

The comments being made about G/P are not without evidence, either. They managed to score within 6 points of W/P, who despite what your opinion of them may be, are the 4th ranked team in the world right now. They were a mere 11 points shy of the olympic ice dance champions, who just broke the world record in the FD last month. All of that doesn't strike you as a little odd?

ITA agree - jettasian your bias is definitely showing and as SF04 points out you are ignoring the stats. If she was his equal, then maybe, but he pulls her around the ice . No way they should be that close to W/P. Their marks should be much closer to R/H and P/I.

I really don't understand what the G/P love fest with the judges is based on. It started earlier in hte season and has continued, basically on the backs of R/H and P/I.

 

[katia]

What can I say.
I am glad V/M skated clean in Free. I like their free program and I hope they will improve it and will win their next competition.
I very much enjoyed W/P. Their program is filled with such emotions. And their lifts are so difficult but they skate so well that one does not see the difficulty of the program. On the other hand with G/P you see that the lifts are difficult. And that's also why G/P should be much further behind W/P. It's not that I did not like their program because it was fun to watch, but they were not clean and even I could see the mistakes they made.
AS for Paul/Islam and Ralph/Hill - I prefer Paul/Islam free program but I enjoyed both.
In fact the only complain in free dance I have is with high marks G/P received.
Oh, and I like Orford/Wiliams. I think in two years they might be our national bronze medalist team.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Well, I'm chagrined. ( And that's being restrained )It's been difficult for me to sort out all of the things that weren't sitting well with me, but I'll try to put it all in order.

It's completely bizarre that G/P should have the bronze medal. I heartily concur with everyone who's pointed out the very noticeable difference in their abilities . Generally speaking , up to a certain degree , it's a fine thing when a choreographer can accentuate the skaters' strengths while down-playing any weaknesses they may have..but there's a point beyond which it can become too much smoke and mirrors , and needs to be called. I feel we're seeing a case of that with G/P ..and the judges are supposed to be able to see through it , not swallow it hook , line and sinker.

That a team who have been together less than a year should wind up only 11 points behind the 5th place couple in the world , and only 17. 48 behind V/M ... simply defies belief. ( We're not talking about the dance equivalent of Volosozhar and Trankov..Our eyes should tell us we're not even looking at the equivalent of Chock and Bates. ) 100 for that FD..ought to be embarrassing.

You can say ..Oh well, they can't go to world's anyway , so no harm done..but I don't know how R/H, P/I and even O/W might feel about that. ( more about O/W later..)

G/P are definitely being pushed and politics are being played , we just don't know exactly by whom. But it's all too obvious. We saw the propoganda campaign begin immediately when C/P split up. I don't know how large a movement it is, or who all is involved . I don't know if those who are pushing them think they can target W/P for next year.. I would hope W/P would be out of range because of their well deserved international recognition. ( Remains to be seen )

But the other 3 teams I've mentioned might miss out on international assignments ... and perhaps even funding next year in the case of O/W.

G/P's SD was lacking in latin feeling , sprinkled with little details evoking other dance teams' current SDs ( a bit reminiscent of of C/L here , a bit reminiscent of P/B there )..not wrong exactly , but tacky...and to me they don't benefit by the comparison. They may well have benefited from skating so early , when they were surrounded by lesser teams..but it's the judges job to not over react. Their expression was superficial..A broad facial expression with this movement, or that ,or when passing the judges , but it didn't seem like the dance was causing their expression. ( This is also noticeable with R/H , whose SD may have been a little overscored, as well IMO ...but nothing like G/P 's was )

Thinking of those 3 teams, R/H ,P/I and O/W ...I have more to say ,that I'll have to say tomorrow, but for now, I just want to say that O/W really suffered by the maddening splitting of the competition for TV. There was slightly less than 2 points separating 4th - 6th , and of those 3 couples , their FD scored highest.. but there were hours between the time the judges saw them and the last flight , not just an ice flood... For the fans ,unless people were watching skatebuzz , O/W weren't seen at all . So here's the link..It really was an excellent Sr. debut.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19912126

ETA; Thanks, wasabi

 

[figureskate]

my thoughts on free dance http://thewrongedgefigureskatingblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/canadian-championships-dance-results.html

 

[dorispulaski]

Pogue ,thanks for dragging me out of my funk.. I agree with so much you've said.

I've been wrestling with my thoughts since last night ( closed myself down by mistake and lost a lengthy post ) Now I have to walk my dogs.....and wrestle with my wordpad a bit..and I'll be back in business.

Colleen, When you do that, go back to the thread, hit the reply button, and then look in the bottom corner of the Reply box. You will see "Restore AutoSave" Click on it, and Voila! There will be most, if not all, of your lost post!


For non Canadians, TSN has the last flight of the Canadian dance championships up, and it is not geoblocked!

http://www.tsn.ca/figure_skating/story/?id=385739

Link to the last flight is on the right hand side of the page.

 

[skatingfan04]

Virtue/Moir were really off in this event though; you can't deny that. An extended lift deduction in the FD, not getting the highest levels on their elements in the SD and the FD, the major stumble in the SD twizzle. Their Olympic title should not automatically entitle them to super high scores despite having mistakes.

Agreed, but it does mean that they skate with an overall level of quality that is simply unattainable for a new team, no matter how good they may be. That, IMO, is why their scores should be high in comparison. And they didn't make mistakes in the FD, except for the lift extension, which is the score I was referring to.

Expanding on what colleen o'neil said, I think R/H, P/I and O/W really won't be happy if their back in the same position next year all trying to make the world team with good material and G/P take the spot with another set of mediocre programs. Nor should they be. If G/P deserve to beat them by then, then I will have no problems with any of it. But if the don't, things will really be getting out of hand. Let's hope the latter doesn't happen.

Also, a small correction, colleen. P/I had the 4th highest FD score by about a point over O/W, not the other way around.

 

[ILoveFigures]

I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions.

 

[museksk8r]

I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions.

I totally agree with everything you posted and, actually, I believe Paul Poirier is a better skater than both Weaver/Poje as well.

 

[pangtongfan]

If W/P don't medal this year at Worlds, I'm gonna predict G/P beating them next season. Which would be a crying shame.

I highly doubt that. W/P are already good enough to be contending for a medal at the World level right now, while G/P wont be for several years atleast (probably not until after Sochi, if ever). Skate Canada may be increasingly corrupt but they arent stupid.

 

[wasabi]

I for one agrees with the judges when it comes to Gilles/Poirier. If you take a closer look at Poirier compared to Islam and Hill, you can see a vast difference in quality, sheer skating technique. HE is much better, and Piper, while not as good her partner, is just as good as Paul and Ralph. With more training and more experience, Gilles/Poirier can become extremely good.

Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions.

Paul may be better but with Piper the team is definitely not 16 points better than R/H or P/I and is just not that close to the top. The Programs are gimmicky and ridiculous smiling does not count as connection. W/P have worked long and hard and are a dyno team on ice now. G/P b eing so close is a mockery.

 

[heyhey]

All I have to say is that this overscoring of G/P at this event will do a disservice to them in the future. Yes Paul Poirier is a fine skater - but so was Ben Agosto (who I think was vastly underappreciated). It's a team effort - otherwise Paul Poirier should be skating singles. And really Vanessa Crone is one hell of a skater as well.

 

[jan]

All I have to say is that this overscoring of G/P at this event will do a disservice to them in the future. Yes Paul Poirier is a fine skater - but so was Ben Agosto (who I think was vastly underappreciated). It's a team effort - otherwise Paul Poirier should be skating singles. And really Vanessa Crone is one hell of a skater as well.

Totally agree. I thought they should have been nowhere near V/M. Tracy Wilson seemed a bit upset that V/M were not being recognized for their intricate holds and just the quality of their dance because it looks so easy. For G/P to score over 100 for that dance is unacceptable. They skated much of the dance in hand to hand hold. When Piper was stroking clockwise you could tell that she struggled. As well the dance lacked good transitions. It was set up for tricks. I found it interesting but should have scored 90 at best. I would ask that people re-watch their dance and look at whether they actually danced or free skated the program.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Btw, does anyone know why TSN has geoblocked half of the videos. I can't watch Men's or Ladies competitions.

Men: I know Japan sometimes airs other National events, and I can imagine the international rights to Canadians might have come into play.

Ladies: Because .... yeah, I got nothin'

 

[skatingfan04]

Totally agree. I thought they should have been nowhere near V/M. Tracy Wilson seemed a bit upset that V/M were not being recognized for their intricate holds and just the quality of their dance because it looks so easy. For G/P to score over 100 for that dance is unacceptable. They skated much of the dance in hand to hand hold. When Piper was stroking clockwise you could tell that she struggled. As well the dance lacked good transitions. It was set up for tricks. I found it interesting but should have scored 90 at best. I would ask that people re-watch their dance and look at whether they actually danced or free skated the program.

ITA. That's what bothers me so much about G/P's results. Their program was just tricks...no dancing, and no difficult transitions. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I actually think that ice dance programs should involve actual dancing. Tricks are great for exhibition, and I think that they can often be successfully incorporated into competative programs, but this one was just one trick after another. That's not dancing, thats fluff. V/M, W/P, P/I and even R/H (though not as well as the former three, IMO) all danced last night. Their moves might not have been as flashy, but there was true difficulty there, and all of them made it look quite effortless. Furthermore, their choreography actually matched the music. The moves weren't just tricks for the sake of tricks, but actually followed the accents within the music. They all tried for an emotional connection to each other and the music as well. I was particularly impressed with the fact that W/P, V/M and P/I all made an effort to look at each other at various points during the footwork sequences in an attempt to maintain an emotional link through the difficulty. It's something few teams do. I'm not saying that G/P wont be able to do all of this someday, just that they shouldn't be getting scored as highly as these teams until they can.

 

[dorispulaski]

Possibly when the men's final is broadcast today, there will be clips from the men's short program shown?

I get an error code when I try to view the men's SP, rather than a geoblock notice.

 

[katia]

actually, I believe Paul Poirier is a better skater than both Weaver/Poje as well.
museksk8r
Poirier may be a better skater, Giles may be a better skater but we are not comparing Poirier to Poje and Weaver to Giles, we are comparing the dance pair G/Pwith dance pair W/P and the dance pair G/P at the moment is much, much worse than team W/P. Judges should not be giving marks for what may be or may be not. Judges should give marks for what is. And presently dance pair G/P is not only much worse than dance pair W/P but is also worse than dance pair P/I. . Overall much worse. In my view.