Free Dance

[dorispulaski]

The judges scored V&M appropriately--it was the tech panel that was very tough, compared to the tech panel at the GPF. However, IMO, the tech panel at the GPF was very, very easy. I expect to see D&W get lower levels at US Nationals than they did at the GPF, too, especially if Judy Blumberg is on the panel. In fact, during the GPF coverage, Tanith Belbin and even Terry Gannon found the tech panel very forgiving and free with the level 4's and warned us not to expect levels to be that high at nationals.

After all, no team had a level 4 in a step sequence, and maybe C&L only had both level 4 on the rhumba sequences in any SD on the Grand Prix, and suddenly at the GPF nearly every team suddenly had level 4's.

V&M on the Grand Prix
SD
two level 3 steps, 1 level 4 rhumba, 3 level 3 rhumba
FD four level 3 steps

W&P (3 events) Grand Prix
SD rhumba sequences, two level 4, two level 2
steps 2 level 3 steps one level 2 step
FD 5 level 3 steps one level 2

D&W at 2 Grand Prix events
SD, two level 3 steps, 4 level 3's on the rhumba
FD, 4 level 3 steps

P&B at 2 GPFs
SD 3 level 2 rhumba's, one level 4,
steps two level 3
FD 3 level 3 steps 1 level 2 step

So at the GPF:

V&M
SD 1 level 3 rhumba, 1 level 4 rhumba
1 level 3 step
FD 2 level 4 steps

W&P
SD 2 level 4 rhumba, one level 3 step
FD 2 level 3 steps


D&W
SD 2 level 4 rhumba, 1 level 4 step
FD 1 level 4 step, 1 level 3 step


P&B
SD 2 level 4 rhumba, one level 3 step
FD 2 level 3 steps

Furthermore, the Shibutanis got 2 level 4 rhumbas and B & S got one level 3 and one level 4.

Clearly, the tech panel at GPF was the most lenient we have seen all year, including at Canadians.

And I would expect to see D&W have a harder time getting level 4 on the rhumba sequences at US Nationals, too.

To say V&M weren't respected by the judges here is, I think, inaccurate. (how could they get a lot higher than 9.96 for Performance, for example?) It was the tech panel, not the judges that were tough.

The correct thing is that G&P were scored rather high for what they did, I thought.

 

[rain]

The REALTIVE scoring of he top 3 teams however is a different question, but one I don't feel adaquately able to address quickly here.

To say V&M weren't respected by the judges here is, I think, inaccurate. (how could they get a lot higher than 9.96 for Performance, for example?) It was the tech panel, not the judges that were tough.

Mea culpa. I was, in fact, more than anything, talking about the relative scoring of the top teams.

 

[npa]

regardless of the possible medal loss (no, they're not winning Worlds this year - sorry guys).

Why? They are not Sugury - they are young, they have best skating quality.
Only because rich D-W parents buy them aal golds and USA FS federation have only 1 chance ever for medals at WCh?
Really cant understand your point - you are talking about V-M, like they are compete 100 years, like Joubert did.

I am sure, Davis will be surprised at WCh without USA judge

 

[skfan]

Thanks, sf04.. it was pretty late. Still, I see O/W as really making a great debut and that artificial split in the competition means they aren't seen to be in the company they deserve to be in, and actually were competitive with, by the scores.

And thanks,doris..I'll remember that , because this isn't the first post I've lost. But in this case , I managed to turn off my whole computer..never mind how, exactly ( but it involves a dog , a toe , a coffee and a power bar....)

P/I ..I'm so relieved to see them looking more like themselves after what has to have been the season from hell for them, and the costume fanatic in me was simply delighted with the change of dress for her. :thumbsup: Given that their scores were so close to those of R/H, I don't know that the finish sits all that well with me . Their refinement , flow, lines and genuine expression count for a lot in my eyes.

OTOH, I'm very happy with the improvements R/H have made this year in their FD ( not the SD). The improvements are undeniable and R/H deserve a lot of credit.( So I'm not outraged with their finish ... except when I realize that the difference is due to the SD marks , then it rankles a bit..) I sort of feel badly for them that they have to take that much of a back seat to G/P ...

:scowl:I'm resentful that I'm forced to have this reaction to G/P , because they're coming together quite nicely , and I want to be able to view them with a more appreciative eye ..but they're not anything like the revelation that we're being asked to believe they are , and I just hate it when I feel someone is trying to hoodwink me.

ETA: whoever said that Piper Gilles is a better skater than Alex Paul.... what you're smoking is illegal . As Mrs. P said, look at the feet...not to mention the leg line, and the ease of movement, etc. , etc...

thank you for stating it so eloquently -- that's pretty close to how i feel about paul/islam.

now, dog... toe... coffee LOL your posts are enjoyable to read, even when i disagree with you (vehemently in the case of G/P

 

[tulosai]

Why? They are not Sugury - they are young, they have best skating quality.
Only because rich D-W parents buy them aal golds and USA FS federation have only 1 chance ever for medals at WCh?
Really cant understand your point - you are talking about V-M, like they are compete 100 years, like Joubert did.

I am sure, Davis will be surprised at WCh without USA judge

What a truly strange comment.

Whatever else you want to say, D/W are two of the hardest workers in figure skating. Anyone who has watched them year after year would have to admit this. They do not have the natural brilliance of some other teams (i.e. V/M) and have worked their tails off trying to get there. Their parents being rich (if they are) has nothing to do with that. They have improved steadily, season after season, and now as a result of this hard work are competitive with V/M (who I don't remember hearing come from any financial hardships themselves but again I do not know).

As for the rest, I don't really get your '1 chance ever' comment. The USA has multiple medals from past world championships in all disciplines other than Ice Dancing. It's true that D/W are their first truly good ice dancing team/medal hope, but before V/M it's not like Canada was doing outstanding in Ice Dancing either. If you mean that the US isn't going to medal in anything but Ice Dancing this year, sure, that's true, but all countries have bad years- again, including Canada.

D/W's parents did not buy them any golds. They have been working together since 1997 (almost 15 years now) and never given up and it shows.

 

[Ravensque]

Lauren Senft (the tech specialist at Can Nats) is a very good friend of Meryl Davis..........hmmmmmm!!!!!! She also competed against V/M a few years ago. I sure hope it's someone different at 4CC's and Worlds.

 

[tulosai]

Lauren Senft (the tech specialist at Can Nats) is a very good friend of Meryl Davis..........hmmmmmm!!!!!! She also competed against V/M a few years ago. I sure hope it's someone different at 4CC's and Worlds.

I mean no disrespect to you personally but am I the only person who finds these kind of conspiracy theories absurd?

 

[wasabi]

Lauren Senft (the tech specialist at Can Nats) is a very good friend of Meryl Davis..........hmmmmmm!!!!!! She also competed against V/M a few years ago. I sure hope it's someone different at 4CC's and Worlds.

Uncalled for conspiracy speculation. VM are extremly talented and wonderful to watch, but so are DW and they have been skating extemely well all season.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Wait, I thought Ravenesque was joking.

 

[dorispulaski]

Nope. It was Lauren Senft & Leif Gislason who competed in Juniors in Canada, and competed against V&M.

http://www.goldenskate.com/2003/10/senft-and-gislason-pair-up-for-2003/

And they finished ahead of V&M in World Juniors 2004
http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/News/20032004/04_mar8/tabid/859/language/en-US/Default.aspx

And yes, Senft was on the tech panel at Canadians. However, to give a level, two of the 3 tech panel members have to agree, so there is no way that Lauren Senft could downgrade V&M all by herself. In fact, I doubt very much that she would do it in any case.

The GPF panel had Dostatni on it, and typically when he's on a panel, it seems the panel gives nearly all level 4's and lets the judges sort out who wins and who loses (cf. Worlds 2009) with GOE and PCS marks.

And yes, with no US judge at Worlds, it will be harder for D&W to win there, no question, given that the 2 teams are very close. Every tenth will count. No US judge means the top mark to throw out will be a little lower than it would be with a US judge.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Yeah, no I got she was on the tech panel. The implication that she was doing her friend Meryl a favour is what I thought was the joke.

 

[KKonas]

Lauren Senft (the tech specialist at Can Nats) is a very good friend of Meryl Davis..........hmmmmmm!!!!!! She also competed against V/M a few years ago. I sure hope it's someone different at 4CC's and Worlds.

Not to worry. Not one of the members of the Dance Tech Panel from Canadians are rated high enough by the ISU to officiate at an international competition, much less Worlds.

 

[dorispulaski]

Oh--I thought you meant the joke was that she ever competed against V&M (and it is a surprise to me that someone so young for an official is on the tech panel at Canadians).

I would think all the dancers from that era would know one another.

 

[skatingfan04]

Thanks, sf04.. it was pretty late. Still, I see O/W as really making a great debut and that artificial split in the competition means they aren't seen to be in the company they deserve to be in, and actually were competitive with, by the scores.

And thanks,doris..I'll remember that , because this isn't the first post I've lost. But in this case , I managed to turn off my whole computer..never mind how, exactly ( but it involves a dog , a toe , a coffee and a power bar....)

P/I ..I'm so relieved to see them looking more like themselves after what has to have been the season from hell for them, and the costume fanatic in me was simply delighted with the change of dress for her. :thumbsup: Given that their scores were so close to those of R/H, I don't know that the finish sits all that well with me . Their refinement , flow, lines and genuine expression count for a lot in my eyes.

OTOH, I'm very happy with the improvements R/H have made this year in their FD ( not the SD). The improvements are undeniable and R/H deserve a lot of credit.( So I'm not outraged with their finish ... except when I realize that the difference is due to the SD marks , then it rankles a bit..) I sort of feel badly for them that they have to take that much of a back seat to G/P ...

:scowl:I'm resentful that I'm forced to have this reaction to G/P , because they're coming together quite nicely , and I want to be able to view them with a more appreciative eye ..but they're not anything like the revelation that we're being asked to believe they are , and I just hate it when I feel someone is trying to hoodwink me.

ETA: whoever said that Piper Gilles is a better skater than Alex Paul.... what you're smoking is illegal . As Mrs. P said, look at the feet...not to mention the leg line, and the ease of movement, etc. , etc...

colleen, I think you\re my ice dance soulmate. You always take the words right out of my mouth. Here's something that should cheer you up. I know it did me. Paul & Islam will be going with W/P and V/M to 4CC!!!!


http://www.skateontario.org/2012/01/22/842/

 

[KKonas]

Nope. It was Lauren Senft & Leif Gislason who competed in Juniors in Canada, and competed against V&M.

http://www.goldenskate.com/2003/10/senft-and-gislason-pair-up-for-2003/

The GPF panel had Dostatni on it, and typically when he's on a panel, it seems the panel gives nearly all level 4's and lets the judges sort out who wins and who loses (cf. Worlds 2009) with GOE and PCS marks.

And yes, with no US judge at Worlds, it will be harder for D&W to win there, no question, given that the 2 teams are very close. Every tenth will count. No US judge means the top mark to throw out will be a little lower than it would be with a US judge.

Dostatni was not on the GPF Panel. The Tech Controller was Gilles Vandenbroeck (FRA), Ayako Higashino JPN and Gailit Chait-Moracci ISR.

 

[Ravensque]

I read about the tech controller on another forum and how close she is to Davis........I figured there would be some responses to that one . I sure do hope this kind of crap doesn't happen, but not so niaive to think it never could......

 

[dorispulaski]

It's always wise to take what people write on the internet with a grain of salt.

 

[nevergonnadance]

Frankly, I do not see the constant comparison to an older sister other than in KnC and trying to loosen up his nerves while on ice waiting for their names to be called. They had quite a few programs, particluary exhibitions that were quite touching and definitely gave you goose bumps, that definitley did not make you think brother and sister. They did not have the romantic connection ala V/M, but I would put them as a similar connection to P/B, D/S, B/S to mention a few, a connection that is of mutual respect, friendship and liking. These latter are not romantic connections, and why should that be the standard that everyone has to meet.

Big Vanessa fan here. I agree with your whole post but just put a bit of it here.

At this stage of the game I don't understand the "chemistry" claims for G/P in the way most people mean chemistry. The programs are OTT and gimmicky and so is Paul's sd costume. That soul patch on his chest is a gimmick all by itself. A lot of his skating, while it's powerful and skilled is sort of "see my ***" choreography in the sd the way he's got it jutting out behind him exaggerated. The impression left by both programs is as if Carrie from Sex & The City played by Piper was partying for a goof with one of Stanford's younger boyfriends.

 

[museksk8r]

That soul patch on his chest is a gimmick all by itself. A lot of his skating, while it's powerful and skilled is sort of "see my ***" choreography in the sd the way he's got it jutting out behind him exaggerated.

Paul skates very deep in his knees and happens to be blessed with great genes - his big, beautiful butt is an added bonus for the fans. "If you got it, flaunt it!", I like to say. His training mate Asher Hill proudly flaunts his too. This fan is very grateful for it!

 

[from the sidelines]

I found it interesting how the audience reacted to each performance. Let me say that I did enjoy the freedance event tremendously and thought that each team did a wonderful job.
Harvey/Gagnon - great strong skate, the crowd went nuts when she picked him up- a shame they weren't shown later in the event
Orford/Williams - great energy, almost frantic at times, but I agree with earlier comment that they should have been shown with the later group. Very close in points to the top.
Paul/Islam - lovely lines, although I am disappointed they keep reusing the same lifts each year, would like to see them branch out to something new in that department
Ralph/Hill - their program drew me in, very difficult at times, and they did a great job, I actually thought they would be scored a bit higher then they were
Gilles/Poirier - the crowd loved them, very different routine, full of great features and lifts
Weaver/Poje - they skated this program beautifully, lovely edges and lines, unfortunately seemed a bit boring skating after the dynamics of G/P
Virtue/Moir - gorgeous, seamless and beautiful

Can every ice dance event be like this one where everyone skates their best? I don't care about the scoring, just give me great skating and athletes happy with their performance.