GP Series: Is it really THAT exhausting?

[Piel]

I could care less if Kwan does the GP or not. Whatever she does, she'll face the consequences and/or reap the benefits. Same thing with everyone else.

EXACTLY! Now there is a healthy attitude toward skating. Each skater needs to take responsibility for their own skating

 

[LegalGirl82]

Red Dog, see Yazmeen's post in the "New Exhibition for Michelle" thread. She saw COI in Philly today and said Michelle did 4 triples.

 

[Mathman]

I was talking about skating and other sports. I don't know what "supreme authority" means to you, but when I go to my dictionary and translate these two words, they mean we're talking about the highest governing body of for example, a sport. Is there some sort of tabu I'm not aware of concerning this expression? Or you are suggesting that because the ISU is an authority (or whatever you wish to name it) we can't agree with them even when we think they're doing the right thing?

I believe that the ISU is more interested in protecting it's own status than in advancing the fortunes of the sport. This is what "supreme authorities" do, whether in politics or sports.

During the glory days of figure skating, most of the 1990s, everybody and his brother were putting on a competition or a show, everyone was making money and figure skating as a whole enjoyed an unprecedented burst of popularity. I think this is a better recipe for success than to have only one game in town and make everyone strut to the same drummer.

The ISU used the Grand Prix series, with it's once-generous prize money, as a way to keep amateur skaters within its sphere of influence. This might be good for Mr. Cinquanta's ego, but it cannot be good for the sport. Already, the sport is has contracted to a fraction of what it was just a few years ago.

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sorry if that is too "political," but it applies to monopoly and dictatorship in any field of endeavor, IMHO.

Mathman

 

[cianni]

Michelle

I was at the Phila. show today and she did 4 triples in her program. She did 4 axels I believe thats the jump in a row at the end of the show. The other skaters did not do many jumps. Maybe she is keeping in shape.

 

[mzheng]

Isn't it really a very few skaters that we are talking about not doing the GP. Specifically Kwan, Kwan, and Kwan, Irina (sick), Plushy (injured), Sasha (injured), Kwan, Kwan, and Kwan? Since no one is bitching about those who are injured or sick not competing the issue it seems is Kwan choosing not to do the GP yet participating in Nationals and Worlds. And it comes down to the fans of her competitors either want more chances to try to beat her via the Grand Prix. OR they want her banned from Nationals, Worlds, and Olympics to make it easier for their favs to win. For those who are non fans, what does it matter?
.

You nailed it. :agree:
Or the third, forcing Kwan into GPs so she got exhausted and/or injured by Nationals, Worlds and Olympics, now that would make play ground fair!

 

[kyla2]

My Opinion

The fact is they have to do the GP Series, so this is all a moot point. It has its advantages and disadvantages which have all been pointed out. For me, the bottom line is that the pluses outweigh the minuses. Michelle would have been on the podium if she had competed throughout the year. I have absolutely no doubts about that. Furthermore, Rafael wanted her to do it. She has GOT to start listening to her coaches. The ISU wants a higher visibility for figure skating and more revenue and those are all good reasons for having a Grand Prix Series. I rarely agree with them on anything, but this makes sense.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

The fact is they have to do the GP Series, so this is all a moot point. It has its advantages and disadvantages which have all been pointed out. For me, the bottom line is that the pluses outweigh the minuses.

Actually, if you read the past posts, then you'd know that's not the fact at all. Also it isn't about you, it's about the skater and what they feel is right. Whether or not you think their decision is right or wrong doesn't matter because it's their choice and the current rules allow them to make that choice. I'm really sick of people who are sitting on their high horse thinking they know what's best over those who are actually in the sport.

 

[R.D.]

Red Dog, see Yazmeen's post in the "New Exhibition for Michelle" thread. She saw COI in Philly today and said Michelle did 4 triples.

Thanks, I just saw it in the thread. Still, four triples...a bit much for an exhibition? Usually there are about two jumps (one jump and an axel). Maybe she's serious about the Olympics and is using the COI tour to get her triples under control. She seemed to be losing her consistency this year and is trying to get back in it next year. I say she has some unfinished business out there. Everyone better look out.

Also it isn't about you, it's about the skater and what they feel is right. Whether or not you think their decision is right or wrong doesn't matter because it's their choice and the current rules allow them to make that choice. I'm really sick of people who are sitting on their high horse thinking they know what's best over those who are actually in the sport.

But there's something wrong IMO with this way of thinking. I like the business example that one poster gave (I forgot it now...). Yes the skaters can do whatever they want in the domain of the rules but, fair or not, it's up to the ISU as to what the skaters are or are not allowed to do. Right now it's not against the rules for a skater to skip the GP, but the ISU DOES reserve the right to change that. Whether I agree or not or whether a skater agrees or not is moot in this case. Sort of like a company/employee type relationship.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

But there's something wrong IMO with this way of thinking. I like the business example that one poster gave (I forgot it now...). Yes the skaters can do whatever they want in the domain of the rules but, fair or not, it's up to the ISU as to what the skaters are or are not allowed to do. Right now it's not against the rules for a skater to skip the GP, but the ISU DOES reserve the right to change that. Whether I agree or not or whether a skater agrees or not is moot in this case. Sort of like a company/employee type relationship.

Um, what's wrong with that way of thinking? You basically agreed with me that the current rules allow the skater do opt out of the GP if they choose to. Whether or not the ISU decides to change the rules had nothing to do with what you quoted in my post. My post was more about people thinking they know so much about what's wrong and right and being self-righteous about it.

 

[R.D.]

Well...nothing wrong with offering an opinion...?

the poster in question specifically said "for ME"...

JMO though. Never mind.

 

[KwanFan1212]

Michelle would have been on the podium if she had competed throughout the year.

Actually, and not to tangent too much in this thread although its happened all ready here, personally I think all MK had to do to make the podium in Moscow was land her salchow in that last LP and she would have had the bronze. She had all ready beat Carolina in the LP with the fall so that jump should have given her enough points overall. But I digress and I think that horse has been beaten here all ready......LOL

And I need to go reread this thread now because I am seriously totally lost!! LOL :frown2:

 

[Skate Sandee]

Actually, and not to tangent too much in this thread although its happened all ready here, personally I think all MK had to do to make the podium in Moscow was land her salchow in that last LP and she would have had the bronze. She had all ready beat Carolina in the LP with the fall so that jump should have given her enough points overall. But I digress and I think that horse has been beaten here all ready......LOL

And I need to go reread this thread now because I am seriously totally lost!! LOL :frown2:

ITA. It's purely speculative that if she skated in the GP series and STILL performed the SAME way at Worlds, that she would have ended up with a bronze. Why? Arakawa, Rochette, and all the other GP Finalists (with the exception on Irina) finished below Kwan. Skating in the GP series didn't seem to give them extra points. It was their performances at Worlds that did them in.

That said, I still want her to skate the GP next season for selfish reasons. I hate having to wait until Nationals to see her skate competitively.

 

[Doggygirl]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone can watch a competition and not be pulling for SOMEONE to win.

I am one of those people. I like watching close competition. I like watching up and comers. I like a good upset victory. There are many skaters I like to watch in each dicipline (well, I admit I've never really gotten into ice dance, but that's nothing against those who understand it and enjoy it!). I like competitions where many skaters put out a good performance (best of the best rather than best of the worst).

As a lover of the sport more than a lover of any individual skaters, I selfishly love the GP series as it extends the sport to a full season rather than just two or three important competitions a year.

The ONLY sport where there is an exception for me is the dog shows I participate in. Then I am ALWAYS rooting for MY dog to win LOL! And the stiffer the competition that shows up, the sweeter the victory if we prevail. And when we didn't prevail last year it was to a dog that was equally well conformed, and put on a much better show that day. I will probably never have another show season or dog like that one, so yes, it will live in my memory book forever.

Now Mathman, if you're going to state my position on taxes, then you need to get it right. I suppose there is a "fit" on this thread, as the subject of taxes is one I TRULY find exhausting!!!

DG

 

[Mathman]

As a lover of the sport more than a lover of any individual skaters, I selfishly love the GP series as it extends the sport to a full season rather than just two or three important competitions a year.

DG, what do you think of Brad's suggestion on the other thread that a truly winning stategy would by to push the Junior Grand Prix? Get young kids and their parents involved. Put it on TV live every Saturday morning. Get some Internet fan sites going, where kids could write in, "Mao Asada sucks!!!!!!!", "No, you do!!!!!!!!" -- oh wait, that's Golden Skate, LOL.

About the "figure skating season." I completely agree that you can't have a major sport that just has three events per year (nationals, Europeans and Worlds). But the Grand Prix is not the only way to acheive this. As I have said before, I think it would be great for the sport if someone would organize the three cheesefests into a true season-long competion with big purses.

It would be like the triple crown in horse racing. ("No one has won the triple crown since Michelle Kwan did it in 2007. But here comes Kiera Yamaguchi-Hedican trying for her third consecutive victory and the $10,000,000 Golden Skate Award.")

Taxes? Gee, I thought that was a safe subject. Everybody hates taxes!

Mathman

 

[show 42]

My lord what will people comeup with becase they don't like her. She opted out of the past 3 years. When, they told her that she had to skate during the season she did. She did skate America as a favor in 2003.

Exactly, Panther, which is what this thread is mostly about anyway......veiled attempts to talk about "skater"s who don't skate the Grand Prix, when really their target is, once again, Michelle.........42

 

[R.D.]

I am one of those people. I like watching close competition.

Here, here.

I don't know why people are making such a big deal over the Grand Prix series. Frankly, the way things are going it may just disappear altogether and the pro-ams (which you guys call "cheesefests") will take over. Doesn't make a difference to me, really.

 

[Piel]

I love close competitons when all of the top skaters are present. I like them more when Kwan wins, LOL. I don't think that exhibitions and show are nearly as much fun as competitions, but I am a very competitive person. IIRC wasn't one of the things that turned skaters off about the GPF is that they had to skate two LPs in one day ?

 

[Mathman]

Hi Piel, Show, Vietgrl, Panther, etc. Now, you guys know I'm crazy about Michelle. But I really don't think there is any Michelle bashing going on on this thread. In addition to the original topic (What makes the Grand Prix so exhausting?), two questions are being debated.

1. What is Michelle's best strategy for the coming season?

(a) She should do the Grand Prix and get her programs out there in front of the intenational judges.

(b) She should skip the GP, pace herself, and try to peak at Nationals and the Olympics.

(c) This is for Michelle to decide, and we are just flapping our lips in the breeze.

2. Should the ISU try to force skaters to do the Grand Prix if they don't want to.

(a) Yes, the ISU is the governing body for figure skating, it's job is to insure a successful competitive season, and the skaters have to follow the rules.

(b) No, the ISU would better serve the sport if it were less high-handed and if it allowed more room for dissenting opinion and diversity.

I don't see it as anti-Michelle to argue for any of these points of view.

JMO

Mathman

 

[rain]

About the "figure skating season." I completely agree that you can't have a major sport that just has three events per year (nationals, Europeans and Worlds). But the Grand Prix is not the only way to acheive this. As I have said before, I think it would be great for the sport if someone would organize the three cheesefests into a true season-long competion with big purses.

Mathman

A lot of your post was tongue-in-cheek, but you seem quite serious about this, so I'll respond.
I HATE the cheesefests and think eligible skaters should skate the Grand Prix, no question, instead of these stupid, biased, crappy non-competitions. For one, the cheesefests are overwhelmingly American. They may make it easier for the American skaters to get to, but what about, you know, the rest of the world? It is out there, and there are a lot of great skaters in it.
Second, these cheesefests do not have anything close to serious judging. Witness the stubborn adherence to the old 6.0 system - whether you like it or not, COP is now the world standard. Plus these competitions are all in the USA and there is a serious national bias going on in the judging - in itself highly questionable - at these events.
Third, most skaters have no opportunity to skate in the cheesfests, because they have limited rosters and are invitational in nature. This takes a lot of the "competition" out of them right away. I love the Grand Prix because we do see the emergence of the up-and-comers, not just one skater the US association and Disney has decided to promote the heck out of this year.

These cheesefests just aren't real competitions, and I would hate to see them take on any more importance and draw more focus from the top skaters than they already do.

 

[Mathman]

PS to my previous post: Then again...

Rain, that was perfect timing!

MM.