Hanyu update/Olympic berth criteria

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I didn’t trivialize anyone for sure. Do you think mura, keiji, tomono, daisuke have consistent chances to medal at Olys?

I was pointing out that Mura, Keiji, and Daisuke (and even Tomono at NHK!) have produced strong performances, and defended them as such.

Of course, a healthy Hanyu has a greater chance to medal at the Olympics than those guys. But dismissing those guys as not having had great performances (which they've had, at that) - or not having Olympic medal chances - is rather demeaning to them. Just as it is unfair for folks to dismiss Hanyu just because he happens to be injured at the moment.

 

[rabbit1234]

Figure skating is a closed sport. There is a limit to the number of people who can attend the international competition, not all of them are open.
Replace for replacement once a year. That is National. National plays a role to maintain fairness.
So, National is an important competition for players in any country.

In any case, the screening must be done according to the rules.
That is sports.

 

[riminin]

Shouldn't we change the title of this thread to "Lessons in Hypocracy"?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't think you did. But I understand that for some people, who don't like hanyu, having his fans say these things can be grating. I just wanted to ask, nicely, if CSG could please leave us in peace for this one thread. He tends to be annoyed with Hanyu fans and it never ends well.

I don't have the links. I was just ironically referring to a post we both saw in the other thread, sorry.

I was merely defending the Japanese guys that giulia was criticizing as not having had great performances, and pointed out instances where they had.

Not to mention, I defended Hanyu in this thread, as a rebuttal to rabbit's post, stating, "50 days is still a way's away. While his recovery is taking longer than expected, he could still skate with dumbed down jump content and still place higher than most of the Japanese men at their best... It would be remiss to not have him at the Olympics if he's sufficiently capable of competing."

 

[giulia95]

I was pointing out that Mura, Keiji, and Daisuke (and even Tomono at NHK!) have produced strong performances, and defended them as such.

Of course, a healthy Hanyu has a greater chance to medal at the Olympics than those guys. But dismissing those guys as not having had great performances (which they've had, at that) - or not having Olympic medal chances - is rather demeaning to them. Just as it is unfair for folks to dismiss Hanyu just because he happens to be injured at the moment.

I didn't dismiss nor trivialize anyone. Results are results.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I didn't dismiss nor trivialize anyone. Results are results.

Yes. And contrary to your assertion that those guys didn't have any spectacular performances, I pointed out instances - including Grand Prix wins - where those guys HAVE produced great performances. As you said - results are results.

 

[giulia95]

Yes. And contrary to your assertion that those guys didn't have any spectacular performances, I pointed out instances - including Grand Prix wins - where those guys HAVE produced great performances. As you said - results are results.

My assertion was pretty different. A heavily injured Hanyu has already produced spectacular performances and more than once. Can we say the same about mura, keiji, tomono, daisuke ?
Can you list spectacular performances heavily injured mura, keiji, tomono, daisuke produced?

 

[YesWay]

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[giulia95]

Don't feed the trolls.

yes, sorry! For me it's time to go to sleep.

 

[rabbit1234]

Looking at this thread, figure skating shows that there are many fans who do not place importance on selection criteria.
It is accepted that judges will attach special PCS and GOE to their country competitors as normal.
I think figure skating is quite strange as a sport.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I was merely defending the Japanese guys that giulia was criticizing as not having had great performances, and pointed out instances where they had.

Not to mention, I defended Hanyu in this thread, as a rebuttal to rabbit's post, stating, "50 days is still a way's away. While his recovery is taking longer than expected, he could still skate with dumbed down jump content and still place higher than most of the Japanese men at their best... It would be remiss to not have him at the Olympics if he's sufficiently capable of competing."

And it is very noble of you.

But please, play nice for once? I'm ready to beg.

 

[shiroKJ]

Looking at this thread, figure skating shows that there are many fans who do not place importance on selection criteria.
It is accepted that judges will attach special PCS and GOE to their country competitors as normal.
I think figure skating is quite strange as a sport.

Only the National Champ is guaranteed a spot, so 2 spots remain for the Olympic team. Even if Uno gets silver and obviously gets put on the team, there's still 1 more slot.

Two of the JSF's criteria is World standing and Season's best , which puts Yuzu ahead of the other Japanese skater's. No one besides Uno made it to GPF. Yuzu is currently #1 on WS = criteria's met, 100% fair. End of story. End of conversation. But go ahead, you do you and continue to make yourself look ridiculous .

 

[Yuzuruu]

[emoji23] guys just chill, the reigning world and olympic champion and WR holder will definitely be chosen to go to the Olys [emoji846] and If days before it will be decided he cannot perform (extremely doubtful) a substitute will take his place. Does anyone here honestly think he doesn’t deserve the spot for all his Amazing achievements and he doesn’t deserve a chance to defend his title? It’s ridiculous, such discussion is pointless. Anyways, his health comes first, I Hope he will get well very soon to get that second Oly gold! [emoji1]

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And it is very noble of you.

But please, play nice for once? I'm ready to beg.

No need to beg! I'm merely defending other skaters from derisive comments, and standing up for them and their achievements.

I understand that this is a hard time for Hanyu's most ardent fans, but dragging the other Japanese men isn't productive or fair either... they also want a berth at the Olympics (something none of them have had) and deserve their fair shake, instead of being debased or dismissed simply because they're not as likely to medal. And as I said, similarly, it is unfair for Hanyu to be dismissed simply because he is injured at the moment, with the Olympics over 7 weeks away which is plenty of time to get back into competition shape.

I think it's more productive to keep this about Hanyu and his progress, instead of bringing the other guys into it.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

No need to beg! I'm merely defending other skaters from derisive comments, and standing up for them and their achievements.

I understand that this is a hard time for Hanyu's most ardent fans, but dragging the other Japanese men isn't productive or fair either... they also want a berth at the Olympics (something none of them have had) and deserve their fair shake, instead of being debased or dismissed simply because they're not as likely to medal. And as I said, similarly, it is unfair for Hanyu to be dismissed simply because he is injured at the moment, with the Olympics over 7 weeks away which is plenty of time to get back into competition shape.

I think it's more productive to keep this about Hanyu and his progress, instead of bringing the other guys into it.

You do realize her post was a response to what rabbit said right? I haven't seen you try to reason with them about derisive comments and bringing others in the discussion.

Look, you have made your point. it is established now you were defending the other japanese men from condescending commments.All I'm asking you now is please be nice. We have a precedent of this kind of situation. You're always very abrasive when it comes to discussing yuzuru. And it is your right. Which is why you can tell me, no, I won't play nice and I will comment how I wish here, or tell me yes.

 

[rabbit1234]

Only the National Champ is guaranteed a spot, so 2 spots remain for the Olympic team. Even if Uno gets silver and obviously gets put on the team, there's still 1 more slot.

Two of the JSF's criteria is World standing and Season's best , which puts Yuzu ahead of the other Japanese skater's. No one besides Uno made it to GPF. Yuzu is currently #1 on WS = criteria's met, 100% fair. End of story. End of conversation. But go ahead, you do you and continue to make yourself look ridiculous .

The screening criteria states that it is necessary to participate in the National.
Under the provision of relief, it is stated to see the condition of the Olympic Games.

 

[Mussique]

The selection criteria has a big invisible asterisk.

 

[rabbit1234]

This is the selection criterion.
http://www.skatingjapan.or.jp/image_data/fck/file/2017/170623_FS_Senkokijun.pdf

① National winner

② Choose one person in comprehensive judgment from those who satisfy one of the following
A) National 2nd, 3rd
B) Top 2 ISU GPF competitors

③ Comprehensively judging from those who satisfy one of the following, including the athletes selected in ①, ②

A) Applicable to A) or B) of ②, the player who has not been selected from ②
B) ISU World Standing top 3 at the end of the All Japan Championship
C) ISU season world ranking top three at the end of the All Japan Championship
D) Top 3 best scores in the ISU season at the end of the All Japan Championships

* Participation in the All-Japan Championship that is the final selection committee is necessary.
However, if players with proven track record who won the third place in the world championships in the past were unable to participate in the All Japan Championships due to unavoidable reasons such as injuries, before the occurrence of circumstances such as injuries,
There are cases where selection is made while predicting the state at the time of the Olympic Games.

I already got the source

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You do realize her post was a response to what rabbit said right? I haven't seen you try to reason with them about derisive comments and bringing others in the discussion.

Look, you have made your point. it is established now you were defending the other japanese men from condescending commments.All I'm asking you now is please be nice. We have a precedent of this kind of situation. You're always very abrasive when it comes to discussing yuzuru. And it is your right. Which is why you can tell me, no, I won't play nice and I will comment how I wish here, or tell me yes.

Well, I have previously said in this thread - in response to rabbit's comments - that it's unfair to dismiss Hanyu because he's injured, and that counting him out with a whole 50 days to go is rash.... and you acknowledged this, saying, "And it is very noble of you."

I actually think I am being nice, but YMMV. On the contrary, IMO, it isn't exactly 'playing nice' when you accuse me of being "always very abrasive when it comes to discussing Yuzuru" (which isn't accurate)... but if that is how you feel, you are entitled to that opinion. I'm not here to bicker with you, but I'm also not going to just say whatever you'd like to hear, either. We're allowed to have different opinions; let's keep it civil.

 

[rabbit1234]

Presentation of the representative is ten days from now.
At that time we predict the situation at the time of the Olympics and make a judgment.