Hersch on Johnny

[jennylovskt]

I think that Johnny went to Korea was for the friendship more than for the money. He is a nice guy who didn't want to disappoint Yu Nan Kim. Also, he didn't really think that he could be placed so low at the Nationals. He must have thought that he could manage both.

The article was really bitter. I think everything is candid except the debatable "for the money" part. However, as a reporter, he could have bypassed it and write something else instead.

 

[Buttercup]

I really don't see the point of putting out an article about US Nationals that's so negative when there were some wonderful performances to write about. I realize Hersh already did a positive piece on Abbott just before Nats, but if he didn't want to write about Jeremy again, there's always Brandon Mroz.

BTW, Brian Joubert did shows even though his back wasn't 100% yet. Shows aren't as demanding on the body as competitive skating, and he did it for his fans. Johnny was doing the same, and couldn't have known that things would turn out so badly during his trip to Korea, which was nearly a full month before Nats. Why not write that Johnny was doing a charity show to help a friend instead of spending Christmas with his family?

 

[psycho]

I really don't see the point of putting out an article about US Nationals that's so negative when there were some wonderful performances to write about. I realize Hersh already did a positive piece on Abbott just before Nats, but if he didn't want to write about Jeremy again, there's always Brandon Mroz.

BTW, Brian Joubert did shows even though his back wasn't 100% yet. Shows aren't as demanding on the body as competitive skating, and he did it for his fans. Johnny was doing the same, and couldn't have known that things would turn out so badly during his trip to Korea, which was nearly a full month before Nats. Why not write that Johnny was doing a charity show to help a friend instead of spending Christmas with his family?

Thank you. The fact is, almost EVERYONE did shows. Johnny was the one who, by the stroke of bad luck, got sick. I wish I could say that I am amazed at how heartless and judgemental some of these posts are, but I'm not. I've seen it all before.

If telling yourself that Johnny chose to get sick makes it easier for some to justify screwing Johnny out of a world's spot, by all means, go at it. Thankfully, he doesn't read this bs.

USFSA will be a laughing stock of the world with their decision. But hey, if some think that Mroz deserves this spot over Weir, because he managed to hit it out of the ballpark once, as opposed to Johnny's performances this season alone, it's really pointless to argue with them.

 

[ks777]

I totally agree with beklac. He knew he was sick but chose to go to Korea instead of staying home and getting healthy. Besides, I highly doubt that the healthy Johnny could have beaten Brandon Mroz today anyways. The fact is, he knew when the US nationals were and his job was to get ready for it. You can't say he can be ready for worlds but not nationals!!

Yukari Nakano had a disastrous skate at Japanese National and wasn't selected for worlds even though she is more likely to help Japan for 3 spot along with Mao, than Fumie or Miki. But if we picked skaters based on how they did this season, Fumie probably wouldn't have been picked for worlds since she didn't qualified for GPF. Is that fair? How are the new up and comers will be discovered if they don't get the same chances as the top skaters at Nationals?

 

[psycho]

For the last time, he wasn't sick when he went to Korea. He was sick in Japan at NHK, and recovering by GPF. Korea was at Christmas. You people are acting like he got a stomach virus and said, "Hey, Maybe I should go to Korea today". Hindsight is 20/20. How could he have known he would get sick in Korea?

 

[ks777]

For the last time, he wasn't sick when he went to Korea. He was sick in Japan at NHK, and recovering by GPF. Korea was at Christmas. You people are acting like he got a stomach virus and said, "Hey, Maybe I should go to Korea today". Hindsight is 20/20. How could he have known he would get sick in Korea?

Ok so he wasn't sick but he made the choice to go to Korea and he got sick. He can only blame himself. Sorry but nobody forced him to go to Korea.

 

[Buttercup]

Ok so he wasn't sick but he made the choice to go to Korea and he got sick. He can only blame himself. Sorry but nobody forced him to go to Korea.

Now this confuses me - he should have known that he would get sick in Korea? Because it is such a dangerous, unhealthy place? He could have gotten sick in New York, too. Would that have made it ok? I can see if he'd gotten injured at that show, how you could argue that was irresponsible. But that's not what happened. Give the guy a break.

 

[Okami]

I
Yukari Nakano had a disastrous skate at Japanese National and wasn't selected for worlds even though she is more likely to help Japan for 3 spot along with Mao, than Fumie or Miki.

I think it's debatable. Yukari had an amazing last season, but this season her condition has been getting worse and worse. She lost to Akiko once and to Fumie twice, and both Fumie and Miki started catching up to her in PCS, surpassing her at Nationals. By Nationals, some of Yukari's jumps were so much underrotated that she landed forward, and Yukari herself said that she couldn't feel her legs. In the team competition that took place a week after Nationals she attempted only the easiest triples and fell during the step sequence. Miki, meanwhile, recovered from her crash with Fumie and even landed some nice quads in the practice.
I think Yukari's situation is similar to Miki's before the Olympics. It was obvious that Miki'c condition was rapidly getting worse, yet she got the Olympic spot basing on her past results and the good beginning of the season. After that the rules were changed, so that the past results no longer matter - whoever places the highest at Nationals is sent to Worlds (with one exception - the skater who places the highest at Grand Prix Final qualifies automatically).

Johnny's in the same boat. His condition and PCS seem to be dropping this season. At GPF he had the lowest PCS of all the competitors (and that without Brian and Nobunari there). If the USFSA don't want to risk Johnny bombing at Worlds (or even skating well, but placing low), I can hardly blame them.
And Johnny should go home, rest, and then start preparing for the Olympic season. Obviously some change is needed.

 

[Oreo]

Not quite the same but it does bring to mind Nicole Bobek when she had an injured ankle, and instead of laying off it she did a tour of the Nutcracker on Ice. She showed up at Nationals unprepared and withdrew after the short program. The USFSA refused her bye to the 1996 Worlds, sending Tara instead.

 

[momjudi]

I saw Johnny a few days before he left for Korea for the charity show and although he was tired, he definitely was not sick and he skated beautifully at his rink's show.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Many of you don't seem to understand this concept:

The slots for Worlds are not chosen only by the outcome at Nationals.

Weir should have the second slot for Worlds IF he is feeling healthy by then. He is overall the second best American male this year. His performance on the Grand Prix was superior to Lysacek and far superior to Mroz.

Yeah, Mroz did great at Nationals. But is it just a flash in the pan? Who knows if he can repeat. It's extremely short-sighted to look only at a skater's last competition.

I believe that Mroz and Lysacek should go to 4 Continents and whoever skates best there should go to Worlds. If Mroz can overtake Lysacek again then he definitely deserves a spot.

Or maybe Johnny won't be doing well enough by Worlds anyway (this should be determined by a committee after they watch him skate) and both Mroz and Lysacek will be the best picks.

Yukari Nakano had a disastrous skate at Japanese National and wasn't selected for worlds even though she is more likely to help Japan for 3 spot along with Mao, than Fumie or Miki. But if we picked skaters based on how they did this season, Fumie probably wouldn't have been picked for worlds since she didn't qualified for GPF. Is that fair? How are the new up and comers will be discovered if they don't get the same chances as the top skaters at Nationals?

Miki skated better than Nakano at the GPF (and also at Skate America, imo). She totally deserves a spot at Worlds.

Fumie got a Silver medal on the Grand Prix series this year, so she also has shown prowess outside of just her performance at Nationals.

The team Japan selected is the best team. Nakano hasn't had her Lutz all season long, possibly because of an ongoing injury. It's best for her to recover and come back strong next year.

 

[taylorfax]

If telling yourself that Johnny chose to get sick makes it easier for some to justify screwing Johnny out of a world's spot, by all means, go at it. Thankfully, he doesn't read this bs.

USFSA will be a laughing stock of the world with their decision. But hey, if some think that Mroz deserves this spot over Weir, because he managed to hit it out of the ballpark once, as opposed to Johnny's performances this season alone, it's really pointless to argue with them.

I couldn't agree more. And just in general, seriously... no wonder the US has no gold medals lately if the federation is that dumb? It's like my eyes are open more than before.
I see somebody working their butt off in the GP series and earning medals, and therefore not having enough time to be able to be in shape for this one competition. And somebody who has had more time to prepare for this and only this while having no big international results at all.

Gosh, thing is, I'd be so exhausted of it all if I were Johnny? He's only human and I'm not sure how long he can fight this fight. When the truth is, he's never had the real support from his home corner. I'm starting to lose count how many times the federation has screwed him over (example: last years Nationals), it's got to be depressing and despiriting when you feel that no matter what you do you cannot win. And, ha, only then to have to bear the burden and deal with the pressure and expectations when they suddenly need you and you are their only hope (example: last year's Worlds). So he handled it and saved their face. Only then to get the gratitude he did now, meaning zero. It's like a rollercoaster, his career.

It's especially ironic here because I'm sure he hated the idea of leaving his own fate in someone else's hands, however underprepared for this event he was. So he decided to compete anyway, because let's face it, him and the USFSA are not exactly bff. He did his job, you can argue about the wisdom of not withdrawing or whatever but. He did what he felt he had to under the circumstance and however it went, whatever the results, as a last resort asked for a spot anyway, as he had every right to do.

But the media... well, no surprise here. They've always been consistently retarded. I just choose to ignore whenever and however I can.

 

[antmanb]

And as for "how would Mroz feel if someone unprepared beat him" - it's not "someone," it's Johnny Weir as in GPF bronze medalist etc. and it's not "unprepared" as in lazy it's undertrained as in sick. Big difference.

Ok but if that is the case the sick skater in question should withdraw from the competition putting everyone on notice as to what has happened. Let the skaters skate and then let a committee decide who should go. IMO it is unfair to let all the skaters do the competition, everyone sees where they have come, and then turn round and say - actually one (or more skaters) weren't quite up to scratch because x, y, or z reasons. Despite your silver medal and our three spots at worlds, you don't get to go? How demoralizing for the skaters who are trying to get to the top? The message that would be sent out is - not only do you have to skate the best on the day but you have to skate the best on the day and beat the ghosts of the skaters of the past too?

Is it such a judged sport that selection to big competitions should also be judged?

If telling yourself that Johnny chose to get sick makes it easier for some to justify screwing Johnny out of a world's spot, by all means, go at it. Thankfully, he doesn't read this bs.

I am a huge Johnny fan and I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that he chose to get sick. Regardless of the illness or any of the external factors, the fact remains he placed 5th at nationals. He wasn't close to gettting the third place, he wasn't sitting in fourth. Let's face it - people aren't asking for him to substitute Lysacek (who scraped it into 3rd) it is the silver medalist people are thinknig should be dropped. I think that would be a huge mistake and would sent the wrong mesasge to the young skaters trying to make it big.

The message would be - the old guard will always be sent before you regardless of how you skate in your competitions. The question would then be - how do you even become part of the "old guard" if the current old guard is always untouchable?

Ant

 

[Snowgirl]

I believe people see Johnny sent instead of Brandon, not Evan, because Brandon can still do junior worlds and finally medal after two 4-place finishes. But this is not going to happen.
And it's totally unrealistic even to think that Evan would be scrathed off the list for Johnny, it just can't happen with USFSA.

 

[bekalc]

I believe people see Johnny sent instead of Brandon, not Evan, because Brandon can still do junior worlds and finally medal after two 4-place finishes. But this is not going to happen.
And it's totally unrealistic even to think that Evan would be scrathed off the list for Johnny, it just can't happen with USFSA.

Right, because I'm sure Brandon would much rather have been sent to Junior worlds than Senior Worlds.

I wasn't saying that Johnny CHOOSE to get sick. I was saying that if Johnny wasn't feeling good, was sick for awhile, and was exhausted as someone said, than Johnny traveling all the way to Korea for a show three weeks before Nationals wasn't a good idea. I mean think about this for a moment, it's frankly common sense.

And the shows Brian Joubert, Evan did where not half way around the world.

 

[Buttercup]

Here's Johnny's journal entry from earlier this month. Unless he was hiding something, it seems as though he was healthy when he went to Seoul, but came down with something while there. Since being in South Korea is no more unhealthy than being in New Jersey (one might argue that it is actually healthier ), I fail to see how Johnny's actions contributed in any way to his medical problems.

The show was nearly a month before he was due to skate at Nats, not three weeks. It was just bad luck for him.

 

[bekalc]

Here's Johnny's journal entry from earlier this month. Unless he was hiding something, it seems as though he was healthy when he went to Seoul, but came down with something while there. Since being in South Korea is no more unhealthy than being in New Jersey (one might argue that it is actually healthier ), I fail to see how Johnny's actions contributed in any way to his medical problems.

The show was nearly a month before he was due to skate at Nats, not three weeks. It was just bad luck for him.

Read reports on this board. Johnny was sick in NHK (that's a fact) Johnny was feeling bad for a couple of weeks before the GPF. Surely he should have realized what he need was some rest after the GPF and not to be traipsing from Korea back home, to Korea again in back, all three weeks before Nationals.

 

[Buttercup]

I am capable of reading. There is no indication Weir was ill when he went to S. Korea, so I fail to see how having a cold at NHK (which he does write about in his journal entry) is relevant to a show that took place several weeks later. If he says he was healthy when he went to Seoul, as far as I'm concerned he was.

And for the third time, the senior men's skating at US Nats was almost a full month after that Christmas show, not three weeks.

ETA: I'm not going to continue on this thread. It's getting ridiculous. I've no ineterst in Johnny's medical records and I can't imagine any skater would jeopardize their health with no good reason, whether it's Johnny, Evan, Joubert or Tomas Verner.

 

[Mathman]

This is why Hrsh is wrong in this article. Look at the headline:

"You weren't good enough."

Hersh is a professional wordsmith. He knows that he could have said,

"Weir skated poorly at U.S. Nationals."

That would have been OK. Its Hersh's job to report facts and gve his take oin them. He could even have said, "Weir took a risk by doing some extra shows and perhaps paid a price for it at Nationals."

But instead he said, and I quote, "Face it Johnny: you weren't good enough."

That's just being a mean bully for the sake of being a mean bully.

Edited to add: And just for that I am not going to correct the spelling of Hersh's name in the title of this thread.

 

[clairecloutier]

I have no problem with Hersh's article or headline. It's part of a journalist's job to write a catchy headline, and he did. Also, what he said was not untrue! Johnny simply wasn't good enough at Nationals to make the Worlds team--period. Hersh was just telling it like it is! It may not be sensitive to Johnny's feelings . . . but it's true.

I am, and have been for a long time, a huge fan of Johnny's. I think he is one of the best, most talented skaters I've ever seen, and I love watching him skate. However, nevertheless, I am extremely disappointed in his performance at Nationals. To see him skate as badly as he did, especially in the pre-Olympic season, when so much is on the line, just stunned me. I could hardly believe it. He looked completely unprepared and unready for this competition.

It's only natural to wonder why--and I think the answers are right there in Johnny's schedule, diet, and attitude. When I read his latest journal entry prior to Nationals, my immediate thought was, oh dear. He was sick/weak/injured all season--yet he chose to fly all the way to Korea to skate in one charity show on Christmas day, just weeks before Nationals? Why on earth would he do that? The money couldn't possibly have been that good, and even if it were good, it's not worth jeopardizing Nationals for. Most skaters' appeal and bankability as show skaters is ultimately based on successful performances at Nationals/Worlds/Olympics. That has to remain the top priority--especially in the pre-Olympic season!

Worse than the trip was Johnny's attitude in his journal entry. It was all about the drama of his illnesses--how difficult everything is--how he's not making much money--etc. Frankly, it was like one big pity parade. And his reaction after Nationals is just more of the same.

I am a huge fan of Johnny's skating--and that is precisely why it's so frustrating to see him squander his talent with a disaster like this. No doubt Hersh feels the same way.