Hersh on Plushenko/Russian Natls Scoring

[jennylovskt]

Yes, it was the second interview janetfan was talking about. We were just pointing out that Plushy has mentioned Chan. People seemed to think he hadn't...

What janetfan said was Patrick laughed with Lori at Plushenko because Plushenko has made remark on Patrick first. Therefore, it was not this interview. (By the way, there was no insult from Plushenko in this interview.)

Where was the remark on Patrick by Plushenko before that laughing incidence?! Janetfan, I am sorry but you have to have link or some kind of reliable reference to go with what you said. There were too many inaccurate and misleading information from your posts.

 

[seniorita]

Yes, it was the second interview janetfan was talking about. We were just pointing out that Plushy has mentioned Chan. People seemed to think he hadn't...

I m sorry, this is my bad, I didnt remember the other one. I would never remember 5 lines of an interview back in september if you didnt insist to be honest. Janetfan was not just pointing out if Plushenko had ever refereed to Chan, he was talking about trashing his competitors and Lysacek's new invented jump and this led me to figure out he was talking about the last interview, the most recent one which I re-read before writing here. So I m sorry for misinformation.

We have three pages here about Plushenko trash talking chan in an interview and chan replying back to what? This is the only one i found with reference to Chan. With my bad english I dont see the case of trashtalking, I dont know what else to say. I dont even mind what Chan said, lol!

with my little brain, this is creating chaos out of nowhere situation.

 

[i love to skate]

I m sorry, this is my bad, I didnt remember the other one. I would never remember 5 lines of an interview back in september if you didnt insist to be honest. Janetfan was not just pointing out if Plushenko had ever refereed to Chan, he was talking about trashing his competitors and Lysacek's new invented jump and this led me to figure out he was talking about the last interview, the most recent one which I re-read before writing here. So I m sorry for misinformation.

We have three pages here about Plushenko trash talking chan in an interview and chan replying back to what? This is the only one i found with reference to Chan. With my bad english I dont see the case of trashtalking, I dont know what else to say. I dont even mind what Chan said, lol!

No worries, I am not trying to start anything. I was honestly just thinking I was crazy because I remembered the article that janetfan pointed out but when other people didn't I thought that maybe I was imagining it so I went to look it up.

I don't think Plushenko said anything wrong at all! I'm excited to see Chan go up against him in Vancouver. Did you know that when Patrick uses Dartfish he compares his quad to Plushy's? He has even called him a great mentor

 

[Buttercup]

After helping derail this thread, I come back and find a Plushenko vs. Chan debate! Well, that's a new one. Plushenko is now like the Kween, popping up in every thread... Though to be fair, this thread really was about him to begin with.

At the risk of stirring things up again, Patrick Chan seems to be really sensitive about the quad and the suggestion (by anyone) that it's important in skating. Interesting.

ETA: WRT to the two posts below, there's a clip of Joubert watching another skater (in the CBC booth, no less!) on Youtube. But I can't for the life of me figure out what Brian is saying, so I won't post it. He does look about ready to have a heart attack, which would be another consideration against watching other skaters .

Michelle Kwan once said that she never watched her competitors' performances on the backstage monitor because she didn't want to get caught on camera going, "Fall, fall, fall!"

Who hasn't say fall, fall, fall ??(Does it go like sing, sing, sing? )
As much as I wasn't happy watching Yag doing this at that moment, I m pretty sure Plushenko has done it as well in his career, he was just lucky he was not filmed.
Athletes are humans and fight for the same goal, what did we expect for them, Yagudin to see his big rival fail and think "Oh poor Plushy, why WHY you fell down, unfortunately now I win!"?

 

[antmanb]

Like I said, I don't remember the most of what was said, I remember the feeling I was left with, for which one must watch it from start to finish. It totally wore me down.. Of course commentators criticize things they don't agree with or like but when it comes in the form of pointing out negatives on most skaters apart from homies, it becomes very tiring for a neutral spectator. Btw, one of the British guys (I'm guessing Chris) thought Joubert was gonna win and expressed total suprise when he lost to Buttle in 2008. But the way he did so was never in a way that was criticizing or dissing Buttle's skate or success in the process. That's the difference I'm talking about.

Just to add a bit more to the story, both Nicky and Chris thought it was going to be a close call but Nicky did that thing where he puts Chris on the spot and forces him to call it before the marks came up. Chris historically doesn't call these things with his opinion , but factors in the way the judges are likely to mark. In similar circumstances factoring the judges in i would have called it in Brian's favour too, despite wanting Buttle to win. Chris's surprise was (i think) that the judges went with Buttle in the long.

But have a British tradition of "fair play" .. same as they commenting, for example: tennis - it is similar the "school of comment" - no offense, with emphasis on what is good and beautiful .. simple - enjoy in the view, as any ordinary viewer.

Except there is no fair play in figure skating in Britian - the scandals at both this year's nationals and last year's nationals in the dance comptition are testament to how corrupt our system is in the UK. Our judges held the Kerrs down for a number of years until their international performances could no longer be overlooked and they were finally forced to mark them correctly at nationals. The skating world here is tiny and full of politics and drama.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

The German Eurosport guys were sure that Buttle won. As did I. The German Eurosport guys were really good at those Worlds 2008 with their guesses, Henrik Scharnberger actually predicted that Yukari Nakano would only place 4th with her skate - and it was real-time! He spotted both underrotations she was called on and therefore saw her in 4th. That was really impressive.

Chris did the same with Yukari and spotted the UR in real time too, but what would Chris and Henrik know about skating Medusa they're EEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIILLLEE europeans who don't know squat about skating

Ant

 

[janetfan]

What janetfan said was Patrick laughed with Lori at Plushenko because Plushenko has made remark on Patrick first. Therefore, it was not this interview. (By the way, there was no insult from Plushenko in this interview.)

Where was the remark on Patrick by Plushenko before that laughing incidence?! Janetfan, I am sorry but you have to have link or some kind of reliable reference to go with what you said. There were too many unaccurate and misleading information from your posts.

Maybe if you read the thread you would see links for two separate Plushy interviews were posted here. One is recent, right after Russian Natls.

The other interview was from a while ago. Since I don't have the date - I don't want to post "inaccurate info" - but I believe I read Plushy's earlier interview before I ever read Patrick's remarks.

There seems to be a double standard here from certain fans. Apparently some think it is OK for Joubert and Plushy to say anything they want - but if Patrick says anything he is a horrible person.

Sorry but not all of us agree with that. I read all the time that skating needs more "colorful skaters" like Johnny and Brian because they say what is on their mind.

I have no problem with that and do like reading their comments even when I disagree with them. I also think Patrick is one of these "colorful skaters" who says what is on his mind. But it seems that fans of certain skaters don't like what Patrick has to say and only think their favorites have the right to be "colorful." Sorry, but that's not the way it works ,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Buttercup]

There seems to be a double standard here from certain fans. Apparently some think it is OK for Joubert and Plushy to say anything they want - but if Patrick says anything he is a horrible person.

There is no double standard. Nobody is opposed to Patrick Chan sharing his opinions on skating. What some of us have pointed out is that Chan's comments are considerably nastier in tone than those made by other skaters and that he has expressed contempt towards skaters whose style doesn't appeal to him rather than more balanced criticism. What he needs to do is to tone it down, not to shut up completely.

BTW, when you first brought up the idea that Chan was responding to Plushenko's comments (posts 116 and 120), you wrote about the more recent interview - in which Chan was not mentioned at all. If you post confusing things, don't be surprised when people are confused.

 

[seniorita]

but what would Chris and Henrik know about skating Medusa they're EEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIILLLEE europeans who don't know squat about skating

Ant

Thats the resume of the thread!
I can not tell who is simon, chris or nick by their voices, they all sound too britishsometimes I think I know who talks at the moment and then I find out I m worng again.Nick is the one who talks more with the deeper voice?

 

[janetfan]

There is no double standard. Nobody is opposed to Patrick Chan sharing his opinions on skating. What some of us have pointed out is that Chan's comments are considerably nastier in tone than those made by other skaters and that he has expressed contempt towards skaters whose style doesn't appeal to him rather than more balanced criticism. What he needs to do is to tone it down, not to shut up completely.

If you can't see the difference between "I believe quads are important so I'm disappointed to lose to skaters who don't try them" or "I need to work on my spins but Dai is inconsistent and Stephane has problems with the 3A" vs. "I watched his program and laughed at it because it was so easy", or making disparaging remarks about another skater's personality behind his back after accusing him (falsely) of making sneaky comments about others, well, then, there's really nothing I can add here.

Skating - more than ever - is a sport based on reputation. Comments made by certain skaters stressing the quad are just their opinion and they are trying to make a case for themselves and to influence the judges and skating community.

In the 6.0 era skaters like Brian and Plushy had a "wow factor" with their big jumps that Cop has neutralized to an extent. Brian and Plushy have every right to express their feelings and to try proclaim themselves as superior skaters.

It is up to the judges to follow the scoring rules which isn't always so easy.
Jeremy just said he feels having a quad helps a skater score higher on non- jumping elements. Unfortunately this seems not only true but also unfair as elements like spins and steps and have nothing to do with jumps.

Reading what Hersh just wrote about Plushy it is obvious Hersh thinks Plushy can only win with the right judging panel. He thinks aspects of Plushy's skating are below average pointing at his spins, posing, IN and lack of transitions.

Some fans and judges prefer the big jumpers. Others like the more poetic skaters. Many of us really just want to see fair judging and CoP scoring rules followed without inflated points for weak or even non-existent elements.

I suspect the big jumpers will continue to remind us they a big jumpers
And I won't be surprised if Patrick continues to defend his style of skating, especially if he is responding to what he perceives as negative or personal comments about his skating.

How we feel about this might depend on how we feel about the skaters.
I agree Patrick should learn to be more careful with his public statements but understand he has a right to express himself too.

 

[antmanb]

Thats the resume of the thread!
I can not tell who is simon, chris or nick by their voices, they all sound too britishsometimes I think I know who talks at the moment and then I find out I m worng again.Nick is the one who talks more with the deeper voice?

I can't really describe their voices very well, but the deeper voice with the more traditional BBC received pronunciation is Simon Reed (he sounds older than the others to me as well) and the contrast is that Nicky and Chris are both from the north and have short "a" sounds when they speak. Does that even help you at all?! If i had youtube at work i'd link something and tell you who's who!

Chris is usually the one that talks about the competition being a "humdinger" in every. single. broadcast!!! He's the one that comes out with the more technical comments about the singles and pairs jumps and elements. Nicky is the one who knows more about dance (as a previous ice dancer). Nicky is usually the one who asks questions while Chris tends to answer them. Also Chris sometimes refers to his time in Holland trying to bring on their skating programme and he tends to talk about the rink where he teaches in California (i think it's california anyway) and has lots of the inside scoop on the NA skaters from that.

Ant

 

[schiele]

I can't really describe their voices very well, but the deeper voice with the more traditional BBC received pronunciation is Simon Reed (he sounds older than the others to me as well) and the contrast is that Nicky and Chris are both from the north and have short "a" sounds when they speak. Does that even help you at all?! If i had youtube at work i'd link something and tell you who's who!

Chris is usually the one that talks about the competition being a "humdinger" in every. single. broadcast!!! He's the one that comes out with the more technical comments about the singles and pairs jumps and elements. Nicky is the one who knows more about dance (as a previous ice dancer). Nicky is usually the one who asks questions while Chris tends to answer them. Also Chris sometimes refers to his time in Holland trying to bring on their skating programme and he tends to talk about the rink where he teaches in California (i think it's california anyway) and has lots of the inside scoop on the NA skaters from that.

Ant

Great info Ant, I was actually planning to PM you and ask you the questions you just gave the answers for..
Can you tell me which one of the three is the commentator talking from the start of the video of Yuna's here? I always thought this was Nicky. Whoever that is, he is my fav of the three.. Then the one who says it's a classy performance and the music beautilfully interpreted with the steps, who is that?They say one of the names towards the end but I keep getting confused..
That was another great commentary from them by the way. Immediately recognized this as one of the best Ladies SP ever.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

The one who compliments the steps and the class was Chris, I believe. The guy gushing right after it's over says something like "Chris will tell you all about it" than the other guy responds.

 

[Mathman]

Trash talk exists to some extent in all sports.

This is true, but the athletes sound like silly punks when they do it.

Except, of course, basketballer Gilbert Arenas who was just temporarily suspended by the NBA for settling a gambling dispute by bringing four guns into the locker room. Now that's what I call backing up your mouth.

 

[seniorita]

the deeper voice with the more traditional BBC received pronunciation is Simon Reed (he sounds older than the others to me as well) and the contrast is that Nicky and Chris are both from the north and have short "a" sounds when they speak. Does that even help you at all?!

Nope.
should i start counting the Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaas?

Great info Ant, I was actually planning to PM you and ask you the questions you just gave the answers for..
Can you tell me which one of the three is the commentator talking from the start of the video of Yuna's here? I always thought this was Nicky. Whoever that is, he is my fav of the three..

who is the one who begins the video?This is my fav. I love this man
Ant I will post a link at Plushy thread and the first thing you will do when you get home is watch the video and tell me who is who

 

[plushyta]

This is true, but the athletes sound like silly punks when they do it.

... as those boxers before a match

 

[antmanb]

Can you tell me which one of the three is the commentator talking from the start of the video of Yuna's here? I always thought this was Nicky. Whoever that is, he is my fav of the three.. Then the one who says it's a classy performance and the music beautilfully interpreted with the steps, who is that?They say one of the names towards the end but I keep getting confused..
That was another great commentary from them by the way. Immediately recognized this as one of the best Ladies SP ever.

I will have to wait til i get home to watch on youtbe and i'll try and help out!

Nope.
should i start counting the Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaas?

It's difficult without demonstratingm but Chris and Nicky would both say the word "glass" pronouncing the "a" like you would in greek (or i would in spanish...i think it's the same sound!) whereas Simon would say it more like "glarse" if you see what I mean??

who is the one who begins the video?This is my fav. I love this man
Ant I will post a link at Plushy thread and the first thing you will do when you get home is watch the video and tell me who is who

I'll try and watch when i get home and post my answer!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Can you tell me which one of the three is the commentator talking from the start of the video of Yuna's here? I always thought this was Nicky. Whoever that is, he is my fav of the three..

The sommentator at teh start is Simon Reed. Sorry when i got home i forgot to check the post to see who else was on it but my guess is the other commentator will be Chris Howarth since he always commentates and has either Nicky or Simon with him.

Honestly I don't think Simon is that great in terms of commentary. I suspect that he still cannot identify the jumps since he often calls them wrong (i think off the planned content sheet) and Chris has to correct him. I also think he's the one that hasn't really got to grips with COP properly yet!

Ant

 

[schiele]

The sommentator at teh start is Simon Reed. Sorry when i got home i forgot to check the post to see who else was on it but my guess is the other commentator will be Chris Howarth since he always commentates and has either Nicky or Simon with him.

Honestly I don't think Simon is that great in terms of commentary. I suspect that he still cannot identify the jumps since he often calls them wrong (i think off the planned content sheet) and Chris has to correct him. I also think he's the one that hasn't really got to grips with COP properly yet!

Ant

Thanks Ant! :thumbsup:
After a couple of watchs, it's pretty obvious that he's definetely not great in terms of technical knowledge. However, what he is great at is that he often comments on the artistic side so well. Plus the overall flow of his commentary, even his tone of voice and enthusiasm makes everything work very well. Chris (which is the other guy as confirmed by you) is there anyway to comment on the technical side. As a duo, they make a greta job.
If I understood it correctly, Seniorita also likes Simon very much.

 

[antmanb]

Thanks Ant! :thumbsup:
After a couple of watchs, it's pretty obvious that he's definetely not great in terms of technical knowledge. However, what he is great at is that he often comments on the artistic side so well. Plus the overall flow of his commentary, even his tone of voice and enthusiasm makes everything work very well. Chris (which is the other guy as confirmed by you) is there anyway to comment on the technical side. As a duo, they make a greta job.
If I understood it correctly, Seniorita also likes Simon very much.

Actually that's very true - he's really funny too because he'll often give his emotional response to a performance and is often very animated about it, then backs down and asks Chris for the expert opinion They are a good duo.

Ant