How important is faithfulness to the source of the music?

[icewhite]

I think you are referring to Joanna Ng who won an artistic competition at Skate Canada. I believe she was skating to music from Miss Saigon. I think she was 11 or 12.

Interview With Joanna Ng

Interview with American figure skater Joanna Ng

skateguard1.blogspot.com

She went pro very soon.

Where the Ice Takes Her

Joanna Ng was in high school when she had to choose between an Olympic dream and an ice show.

www.latimes.com

Here she is at 12, winning the Skate Canada Interpretive event which only allowed double jumps, at most.

Urgh, urgh... At least in that regard things are getting better... I hope the audience wouldn't be cheering like that today.

 

[Mathman]

I am reminded of the 1958 musical Gigi. This playful romp, about a teenaged girl who is being trained by her mother to be a courtesan and professional mistress, features the delightful tune, Thank Heaven for Little Girls.

On thre other hand, If Virue and Moir come back to the ice thirty years from now, they could do. "Ah yes I remember it well" sung by that carefree song and dance man ,Maurice Chevalier.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Mmmm. This thread hasn't really taken the route I expected it to. But, I will write what my thoughts were anyway.

My initial reaction to the thread title was "yes, of course programmes should be faithful to the source of the music." But, then I started thinking about it. And I'm not so sure now.

Take for example one of my favourite programmes of all time. If it had been faithful to the music, it would have been a very different programme to say the least!

This is without doubt the most sexually charged programme I have ever seen:

Anna Pogorilaya - 2017 European Championships SP

And what, I hear you ask, is the music about? Why, isn't it obvious? It's about betting on horse racing!

Here is the scene where the song appears in the film it was originally recorded for, "Tango Bar" (1935):

Carlos Gardel - "Por Una Cabeza"

A few weeks ago (i.e. before this thread appeared), I heard a song that I hadn't heard for years. I had always thought that it was a very romantic song. However, when I took the bridges and the chorus and started translating the euphemisms into plain speak, I saw the song in a totally different light. Rather than being romantic, it is about a nymphomanic!

Spice Girls - "2 Become 1"

Spoiler: Lyrics Without Euphemisms (NSFW)

Bridge 1:
"Come a little bit closer baby
Get it on, get it on
'Cause tonight is the night when we will have sex"

Chorus:
"I need some sex like I've never needed sex before (want to have sex with you, baby)
I had a little sex, now I'm back for more (want to have sex with you, baby)
Really go wild
It's the only way to be"

Bridge 2:
"Are you as good as I remember, baby?
Get it on, get it on
'Cause tonight is the night when we will have sex"

Bridge 3:
"Be a little bit wiser baby
Put it on, put it on
'Cause tonight is the night when we will have sex"

Yes, I know I have too pure a mind. But this realisation really rocked me. I was not expecting it to turn out like that.

Suffice to say, after the shock from doing the bridges and chorus, I decided against going onto the verses.

I have always wanted to see somebody skate to "2 Become 1". But, after that experiment, I've changed my mind.

Maybe being faithful to the music isn't such a good idea after all...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[TallyT]

Filmmakers take classical music and turn it on its head for artistic/cinematic purposes, sometimes it feels as right as the original, sometimes it... urrrgh (I am thinking of the way a few years ago a casual fannish friend was gushing about Spem in alium by Thomas Tallis, which I adore and was so thrilled... until I found out why. To quote the Guardian... "Tallis has reached the top of the UK classical music charts. The Tallis Scholars' 1985 recording of Spem in Alium has outsold even the tenor Luciano Pavarotti to reach the number one slot. It turns out that Christian Grey, Fifty Shades of Grey's super-handsome billionaire and S&M enthusiast, enjoys practising his hobby to it." And yes, I understand it was in the movie. And yes, I imagine the fans all see it is Christian's Proof of Being Very Cultured. Again, urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.)

But 2001: A Space Odyssey, Platoon, Raging Bull, Clockwork Orange, Up and (though I haven't heard it, I've been told) the Korean show Squid Game all turn the original 'meaning' around. So why not?

 

[Diana Delafield]

Filmmakers take classical music and turn it on its head for artistic/cinematic purposes, sometimes it feels as right as the original, sometimes it... urrrgh (I am thinking of the way a few years ago a casual fannish friend was gushing about Spem in alium by Thomas Tallis, which I adore and was so thrilled... until I found out why. To quote the Guardian... "Tallis has reached the top of the UK classical music charts. The Tallis Scholars' 1985 recording of Spem in Alium has outsold even the tenor Luciano Pavarotti to reach the number one slot. It turns out that Christian Grey, Fifty Shades of Grey's super-handsome billionaire and S&M enthusiast, enjoys practising his hobby to it." And yes, I understand it was in the movie. And yes, I imagine the fans all see it is Christian's Proof of Being Very Cultured. Again, urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.)

But 2001: A Space Odyssey, Platoon, Raging Bull, Clockwork Orange, Up and (though I haven't heard it, I've been told) the Korean show Squid Game all turn the original 'meaning' around. So why not?

Or I was just listening to Trans Siberian Orchestra's semi-opera Beethoven's Last Night. Lots of passages from his works and a few other composers, heavily synthesized etc, representing his emotions as he tries to outwit Mephistopheles and stave off his own death. (Has anyone used bits of the Pastoral Symphony for a program? I can't hear it without seeing Disney's cute little baby unicorns and fauns , but parts would be nice to skate to.)

 

[Diana Delafield]

Replying to myself, I was trying to think of musicals that put lyrics to works by classical composers and weave it all into a storyline. Kismet is the one I know best, having sung in a student production of it when I was studying voice, using Borodin. And way further back there was Song of Norway using Grieg. Any others I've forgotten? Now that lyrics are allowed, skaters could use those songs with perhaps a different theme than was intended for the original orchestral compositions.

 

[TallyT]

Or I was just listening to Trans Siberian Orchestra's semi-opera Beethoven's Last Night. Lots of passages from his works and a few other composers, heavily synthesized etc, representing his emotions as he tries to outwit Mephistopheles and stave off his own death. (Has anyone used bits of the Pastoral Symphony for a program? I can't hear it without seeing Disney's cute little baby unicorns and fauns , but parts would be nice to skate to.)

Another example I just thought of, I was one time listening to music on headphones and someone asked about it, I let them have the headphones for a minute and they said something about "why do you like creepy music???" I sort of boggled... It was Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells. The difference apparently being that they had seen The Exorcist and I hadn't.

 

[4everchan]

Another example I just thought of, I was one time listening to music on headphones and someone asked about it, I let them have the headphones for a minute and they said something about "why do you like creepy music???" I sort of boggled... It was Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells. The difference apparently being that they had seen The Exorcist and I hadn't.

but it IS creepy music... movie or not... i just youtubed it out of curiosity... it put me in a really weird state... i wouldn't listen to that for fun... obsessive, repetitive patterns creep the heck out of me. with the added percussive highlights, like someone is stabbing you..

btw.. i have NEVER seen the movie you are mentioning. I don't like horror movies because either they creep me OR either they are so out there that i end up laughing non-stop at how ridiculous they are...

but yeah.. i wish i had never heard Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells.

Mea culpa... never youtube things from @TallyT again LOL

 

[4everchan]

Replying to myself, I was trying to think of musicals that put lyrics to works by classical composers and weave it all into a storyline. Kismet is the one I know best, having sung in a student production of it when I was studying voice, using Borodin. And way further back there was Song of Norway using Grieg. Any others I've forgotten? Now that lyrics are allowed, skaters could use those songs with perhaps a different theme than was intended for the original orchestral compositions.

Borodin and Grieg both are skated too...
beautiful music from both.

We see these ones regularly in skating . (Borodin : Prince Igor Polovtsian dances)



For Grieg, I am sure we see a lot of Peer Gynt, perhaps also the piano concerto.. because we know how popular they are.

Leaving you with the greatest it of them all

 

[gkelly]

Does this program to the soundtrack of The Right Stuff tell a story? About test pilots and astronauts? Or otherwise? Does it need to?

 

[4everchan]

Filmmakers take classical music and turn it on its head for artistic/cinematic purposes, sometimes it feels as right as the original, sometimes it...

I would edit your post saying that SOME fillmmakers do that... and some others use music they have properly researched... just like figure skaters/choreographers... Some pick music because they think it will suit their agenda... others have some ideas and look for music that relates to it. it goes in all direction and sometimes, it goes in multiple directions simultaneously.

 

[el henry]

Does this program to the soundtrack of The Right Stuff tell a story? About test pilots and astronauts? Or otherwise? Does it need to?

What a great question for this, well, interesting program, that I didn't remember at all. Two thoughts come to mind:

1. The music is rousing, I really liked it. I had to look it up. soundtrack by Bill Conti, of Rocky fame. I don't know if other skaters have used it, but they should. (even the snippet with the theme from the Air Force song )

2. What in blazes that program had to do with astronauts or test pilots I will leave to greater minds than mine. The hand gestures, and the poses, seemed to mean something, but I don't know what. The costuming I like, a real costume, bright and colorful, and also, related to astronauts, how???

So to answer the question. It appears to have nothing to do with the movie and I think it works anyway.

 

[4everchan]

haven't seen the movie... if some people say the choreography does not follow the storyline of the movie, the next question would be : is it because the skater failed to do it or is it because he had no intention to portray the movie at all?

 

[gkelly]

I would edit your post saying that SOME fillmmakers do that... and some others use music they have properly researched... just like figure skaters/choreographers... Some pick music because they think it will suit their agenda... others have some ideas and look for music that relates to it. it goes in all direction and sometimes, it goes in multiple directions simultaneously.

I'm sure some filmmakers have done the "proper" research about the history of a piece of music and what the composer intended, as far as is known... and choose it because it musically serves a purpose for their film that is not at all what the original composer had in mind. That wouldn't make their research less proper than a filmmaker who only used music that had been composed for exactly the purpose used in the film.

What a great question for this, well, interesting program, that I didn't remember at all. Two thoughts come to mind:

1. The music is rousing, I really liked it. I had to look it up. soundtrack by Bill Conti, of Rocky fame. I don't know if other skaters have used it, but they should. (even the snippet with the theme from the Air Force song )

2. What in blazes that program had to do with astronauts or test pilots I will leave to greater minds than mine. The hand gestures, and the poses, seemed to mean something, but I don't know what. The costuming I like, a real costume, bright and colorful, and also, related to astronauts, how???

Based on some of the gestures and the costume, I'd say it's more a story about an artist stepping into his own painting. Maybe it's a painting of astronauts?

 

[4everchan]

I'm sure some filmmakers have done the "proper" research about the history of a piece of music and what the composer intended, as far as is known... and choose it because it musically serves a purpose for their film that is not at all what the original composer had in mind. That wouldn't make their research less proper than a filmmaker who only used music that had been composed for exactly the purpose used in the film.


Based on some of the gestures and the costume, I'd say it's more a story about an artist stepping into his own painting. Maybe it's a painting of astronauts?i

i think we are saying the same thing? but it's late on friday night so maybe my english is kaput

ETA i see the nuance you added... i agree to that as well.. and i would add same for skating... if a woman says, I am skating to salomé'd dance of seven veils.. i know it's about a striptease but i really like the sound of the music and i will do my own thing on it, then, good for her.

 

[TallyT]

but it IS creepy music... movie or not... i just youtubed it out of curiosity... it put me in a really weird state... i wouldn't listen to that for fun... obsessive, repetitive patterns creep the heck out of me. with the added percussive highlights, like someone is stabbing you..

btw.. i have NEVER seen the movie you are mentioning. I don't like horror movies because either they creep me OR either they are so out there that i end up laughing non-stop at how ridiculous they are...

but yeah.. i wish i had never heard Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells.

Mea culpa... never youtube things from @TallyT again LOL

Sorreeee........ I still don't see creepy, but then I have loved and relistened to the whole album since I was in my teens. Mesmerising, oh yes. (It is a fact that its use in The Exorcist shot the album into the stratosphere sales-wise and made Richard Branson's Virgin Records, but the music was written ages before and with absolutely no horror intentions.)

I'm sure some filmmakers have done the "proper" research about the history of a piece of music and what the composer intended, as far as is known... and choose it because it musically serves a purpose for their film that is not at all what the original composer had in mind. That wouldn't make their research less proper than a filmmaker who only used music that had been composed for exactly the purpose used in the film.

Or haven't researched at all but just heard it and thought it would work and guess what... sometimes it did. Which brings us to...

haven't seen the movie... if some people say the choreography does not follow the storyline of the movie, the next question would be : is it because the skater failed to do it or is it because he had no intention to portray the movie at all?

And what of the audience, does it matter if they have not the faintest idea of the history and story of the music in question? For an example, this gala piece by Shiyue Wang & Xinyu Lium using the theme song and music to the cdrama 'The Untamed', a skirting-the-censorship-lines bromance based on the explicit gay (BL) web novel Mo Dao Zu Shi. Sure, the Chinese audience - the younger ones, at least, maybe not the older - probably got the love story references but the international audience wouldn't... especially since it's (well, of course) a mixed pairing.

If you were watching it, how much would it matter that people didn't know the story? And if the audience doesn't know, how much does it matter if the skater takes a piece a different way simply because they want to?

 

[4everchan]

well.. i guess... as said before... it doesn't matter really if the skater doesn't really match the music.. BUT for some delicate topics, some younger skaters should be "protected" from their entourage... so we are back to page 1

btw.. skating is really picking up right now.. i have been watching two events at the same time tonight.. just saying

 

[TallyT]

btw.. skating is really picking up right now.. i have been watching two events at the same time tonight.. just saying

Hey, I am avoiding my historiography essay on objectivity and fidelity to sources by nattering about objectivity and fidelity to sources... umm, over here.

 

[Mathman]

But 2001: A Space Odyssey ... Clockwork Orange ...

You stole my programs for next season:

Short: Blue Danube Waltz. Sinister non-binary computer takes over space ship.

Long: Beethoven's 9th. Maniacal teenaged murderer rapes children to Beethoven, then gets the tables turned and is tortured by the State to the same music.

 

[4everchan]

You stole my programs for next season:

Short: Blue Danube Waltz. Sinister non-binary computer takes over space ship.

Long: Beethoven's 9th. Maniacal teenaged murderer rapes children to Beethoven, then gets the tables turned and is tortured by the State to the same music.

in regards to this thread? How important is @Mathman 's skating faithful to his music I would think, pretty much not important... My friend, you can skate to whatever you want, and however you want it. I don't think we will see you on the JGP/GP circuit anytime soon ... (alll in good humour of course)