How many skaters have skated clean 7 triple programs?

[gio]

The first I remember is 92 Nationals.

Yes, it was one of the rare time she landed a 3Sal!
She did a 3Lutz/3Toe sequence, 3Flip, 3Toe, 3Loop, 3Sal, 3Lutz. And also two 2Axels.

The difficulty of the program was very high for the standards of that time. She was one of the first who had two 3Lutzes in a program. And the second Lutz was at the end of the program. Her Lutz and Flip were almost every time clean and she did a 3Lutz/3Toe combo more than once. In fact she is the first woman skater credited to do that kind of combo. Not to forget that some of her jumps had difficult entrances. A split jump before her 3Toe and a move that I don't know the name in English before her 3Loop.

 

[gkelly]

Men SHOULD be doing 8--they have the triple axel. They could theoretically do nine (combine the triple toe with the lutz or flip, so they can do the axel twice, and another triple twice).

There are only 6 different kinds of jumps that are performed as triples:
toe loop (or toe walley, they count as the same jump)
salchow
loop
flip
lutz
axel

You're only allowed to repeat two of them, for a total of two times each for those two jumps.

Therefore the maximum number of triples a skater of any sex can legally perform would be eight. Women don't usually perform triple axels, which is why the theoretical maximum for a skater with a repertoire of five triples is seven.

Those skaters who have performed nine or ten triples in one program (since the 1983 season when the rule went into effect) were in violation of the rules, either by repeating more than two different triples or by performing the same triple more than twice (or both).

The exception would be IF a skater could add yet another kind of triple, with a different takeoff than any of the six named above, to his or her repertoire. Walley (not toe walley) or inside axel would be likely candidates.

Back to 7-triple programs from women . . . Didn't Victoria Pavuk do it at 2004 Europeans? I think Carolina Kostner may have done it at least once, maybe in the JGP, in 2002-03.

 

[blue dog]

There are only 6 different kinds of jumps that are performed as triples:
toe loop (or toe walley, they count as the same jump)
salchow
loop
flip
lutz
axel

You're only allowed to repeat two of them, for a total of two times each for those two jumps.

Therefore the maximum number of triples a skater of any sex can legally perform would be eight. Women don't usually perform triple axels, which is why the theoretical maximum for a skater with a repertoire of five triples is seven.

Those skaters who have performed nine or ten triples in one program (since the 1983 season when the rule went into effect) were in violation of the rules, either by repeating more than two different triples or by performing the same triple more than twice (or both).

The exception would be IF a skater could add yet another kind of triple, with a different takeoff than any of the six named above, to his or her repertoire. Walley (not toe walley) or inside axel would be likely candidates.

Back to 7-triple programs from women . . . Didn't Victoria Pavuk do it at 2004 Europeans? I think Carolina Kostner may have done it at least once, maybe in the JGP, in 2002-03.

They can repeat more than two.
3z
3z/3toe
3f
3sal
3r
3toe/3r
that's 8 (for a ladies performance)

men...
3a/3toe
3z
3f/3toe
3a
3sal/3r
3r
3sal
10 (like Philippe attempted at the 92 worlds)

 

[SeaniBu]

3r

I have no shame , so I just want to be sure, the "r" designation is the Rittberger for the loop? I don't see what else it could be but making sure.

And by "can" do you mean that they are allowed to without "penalty?" I believe that is what is meant, but confused because I usually take gkelly's word as "gospel." So I am wondering - respectfully.

 

[gkelly]

They can repeat more than two.

Not legally, though. The rule reads "Of all the triple and quadruple jumps only two (2) can be repeated and these repetitions must be in either a jump-combination or in a jump sequence."

In the old system, it was supposed to be a 0.1 deduction, with no credit for the extra jump. You couldn't always tell from the scores or results whether the judges had in fact applied it.

In the new system, the extra jump will get no credit, but it will fill a jump box, which means that if the extra one isn't the last jump pass, then the last pass will get no credit either. If one of those passes is a combination, the skater would be losing a lot of points. Very bad strategy to ignore this rule.

 

[mememe]

They can repeat more than two.
3z
3z/3toe
3f
3sal
3r
3toe/3r
that's 8 (for a ladies performance)

men...
3a/3toe
3z
3f/3toe
3a
3sal/3r
3r
3sal
10 (like Philippe attempted at the 92 worlds)

The Zayak rule allowed only two triple jumps to be repeated, and they could only be repeated in combination. Honestly, I haven't kept up with the rules lately, but back in the 6.0 days -- certainly back at 1992 worlds -- skaters could "legally" do only eight triple jumps in a program -- and doing eight was only possible if you were doing all six different kinds, because the rule allowed a skater to ONLY repeat two different kinds of jumps, and any repeated jump had to be used at least once in a combination or sequence for it to be allowed to be repeated. (That's why the "maximum" that Kwan, and the other ladies, were doing all those years -- unless the lady was Ito or Harding -- was seven -- because they were doing only five kinds of triples and only two of those five kinds could be repeated, meaning a maximum of seven -- the Meissners, Asadas, etc., of today can do eight-triple programs if the same type of Zayak rule is still in force, because they could do all six kinds of triples and then repeat two kinds.)

True, the rule only said any jumps that were over the six different kinds and two "repeated" in combo/sequence would "not be counted" (in other words, there was no penalty listed, just that the judges "wouldn't count" anything over), but that rule was in place. So, if Philippe actually did triples on all the jumps listed as triples in the program outlined above, then if the judges obeyed the rules, the solo triple loop and solo triple salchow would have been "not counted" by the judges, since they were both "repeated" jumps when two jumps had already been repeated, and therefore would not have counted.

Boitano had several seven-triple and/or eight-triple clean performances -- certainly the 88 Olympics, if nothing else.

 

[mememe]

They can repeat more than two.
3z
3z/3toe
3f
3sal
3r
3toe/3r
that's 8 (for a ladies performance)

men...
3a/3toe
3z
3f/3toe
3a
3sal/3r
3r
3sal
10 (like Philippe attempted at the 92 worlds)

The Zayak rule allowed only two triple jumps to be repeated, and they could only be repeated in combination. Honestly, I haven't kept up with the rules lately, but back in the 6.0 days -- certainly back at 1992 worlds -- skaters could "legally" do only eight triple jumps in a program -- and doing eight was only possible if you were doing all six different kinds, because the rule allowed a skater to ONLY repeat two different kinds of jumps, and any repeated jump had to be used at least once in a combination or sequence for it to be allowed to be repeated. (That's why the "maximum" that Kwan, and the other ladies, were doing all those years -- unless the lady was Ito or Harding -- was seven -- because they were doing only five kinds of triples and only two of those five kinds could be repeated, meaning a maximum of seven -- the Meissners, Asadas, etc., of today can do eight-triple programs if the same type of Zayak rule is still in force, because they could do all six kinds of triples and then repeat two kinds.)

True, the rule only said any jumps that were over the six different kinds and two "repeated" in combo/sequence would "not be counted" (in other words, there was no penalty listed, just that the judges "wouldn't count" anything over), but that rule was in place. So, if Philippe actually did triples on all the jumps listed as triples in the program outlined above, then if the judges obeyed the rules, the solo triple loop and solo triple salchow would have been "not counted" by the judges, since they were both "repeated" jumps when two jumps had already been repeated, and therefore would not have counted.

Boitano had several seven-triple and/or eight-triple clean performances -- certainly the 88 Olympics, if nothing else.

ETA: Oops -- gkelly already answered this, so this is just a reiteration of gkelly's response!

 

[antmanb]

Men SHOULD be doing 8--they have the triple axel. They could theoretically do nine (combine the triple toe with the lutz or flip, so they can do the axel twice, and another triple twice).

Back to the original topic--Tonya Szewczenko of Germany had 7 triples at the 1997 GPF, and so did Tonya Harding of US (1991 Skate America)

The men can never do more than 8 triples otherwise there would bea Zayak Violation - there are only 6 different triple jumps and you can only repeat two so long as they're in combination. That's 8 triple jumps max.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Phillipe Candeloro had a TEN-triple program (2 of them axels) at the 92 Worlds.

I very much doubt that - he wouldn't have been given credit for the two that violated the zayak rule if he had.

Ant