How to hack COP for the Olympics season

[Violet Bliss]

Gkelly, as usual... you killed me.

Figuratively, of course.

OS has many more lives than a proverbial cat.

 

[Mathman]

Do not conveniently forget that Irina should have been first with a much bigger margin after the SP while instead she received some very unusual 5.6 for a clean skate, while few months after the Olympics only 6.0 and 5.9 for the exact same performance at Worlds.

To me, it could have gone either way between Slutskaya and Kwan in the short program. I think that if you want to make a case for Irina, a better argument is that Hughes should have been placed lower than fourth in the SP, which would have taken her out of contention. The Russian judge did his part: he placed her 10th.

As for the 5.6s and 6.0s, this mens nothing. Irina received low marks from several judges at the Olympics because they wanted to keep her out of first place. She got high marks at worlds because there they wanted her to win.

There is one interesting parallel between 2002 and 2014, though. In the short program in 2002 they held up Hughes just on the off-chance that Kwan might take herself out of it. Similarly in the SP at Sochi they made sure to keep Sotnikova as close as possible to Kim, just in case Lipnitskaia didn't deliver.

This isn't a conspiracy theory, by the way. It's just figure skating at the Olympic Games.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

There is one interesting parallel between 2002 and 2014, though. In the short program in 2002 they held up Hughes just on the off-chance that Kwan might take herself out of it. Similarly in the SP at Sochi they made sure to keep Sotnikova as close as possible to Kim, just in case Lipnitskaia didn't deliver.

Yulia already didn't deliver before Adelina skated her SP in Sochi. Adelina got high scores on PCS because she skated next to last and won TES, plus the home cooking boost which I presume was a significant factor. I just don't get who "they" is when it comes to boosting Adelina just to keep her close to Yuna. The judges were USA, Canada, Italy, Germany, UK, Japan, Sweden, Slovakia, and South Korea. How many of those have an interest in propping up a Russian skater?

 

[gmyers]

I just think people are too content to express extreme hatred for Sotnikova and not in attacking the people who could have taken the medal away and chose to not take those steps! Like South Korea federations that officially opposed her win and didn't take necessary steps to officially appeal and then not using isu meetings to propose resolutions to revoke the medal. Isu also too comfortable with extreme hatred of sotnikova instead of appointing a commission to discuss revoking the medal.

 

[mrrice]

Yulia already didn't deliver before Adelina skated her SP in Sochi. Adelina got high scores on PCS because she skated next to last and won TES, plus the home cooking boost which I presume was a significant factor. I just don't get who "they" is when it comes to boosting Adelina just to keep her close to Yuna. The judges were USA, Canada, Italy, Germany, UK, Japan, Sweden, Slovakia, and South Korea. How many of those have an interest in propping up a Russian skater?

People also need to remember that going into Sochi, Gracie also had a ton of momentum. At the time, she was being celebrated as the ONLY skater outside of Russia with the Jump Arsenal to stay with the "Big Girl's" Yulia, Yuna, and Sotnikova from a technical standpoint.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

People also need to remember that going into Sochi, Gracie also had a ton of momentum. At the time, she was being celebrated as the ONLY skater outside of Russia with Jump Arsenal to stay with the "Big Girl's" Yulia, Yuna, and Sotnikova from a technical standpoint.

Ashley had momentum, too. Actually, in the Sochi Ladies SP, Adelina's PCS was less than two points higher than Ashley, who had a << on her combination. In fact, every skater in the final flight earned PCS of 33+, while Yuna was the only skater outside the final flight to score 33+ in PCS. So, it appeared skate order played a big role in the scores for the SP.

 

[Mathman]

Yulia already didn't deliver before Adelina skated her SP in Sochi...

All the more reason to go to plan B.

... I just don't get who "they" is when it comes to boosting Adelina just to keep her close to Yuna.

I think that the whole figure skating establishment has a vested interest in producing an entertaining and exciting show. Of course, the skaters have to do their part. I wouldn't say that the judges deliberately boost someone's scores, but rather that everyone is happy when it's a big showdown and when one of the athletes in the mix is the homegrown champ. Good TV, good publicity for the sport, good money, good vibes all around. It must rub off on the judges to some extent, even if subconsciously, enough to prod a judge toward a +2 instead of +1 here and there.

Sometimes, of course, one skater is way better and these considerations are moot.

 

[Mathman]

I just think people are too content to express extreme hatred for Sotnikova and not in attacking the people who could have taken the medal away and chose to not take those steps! Like South Korea federations that officially opposed her win and didn't take necessary steps to officially appeal and then not using isu meetings to propose resolutions to revoke the medal. Isu also too comfortable with extreme hatred of sotnikova instead of appointing a commission to discuss revoking the medal.

This sounds a little on the trollish side, frankly. We should bash the Korean Federation for what, now? Not whining loudly enough?

 

[Mathman]

enter this thread again. did not read all, some wishes:

1 please do not turn this into Yuna fans bashing tread like always....

Huh? Are you sure you read the OP?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think that the whole figure skating establishment has a vested interest in producing an entertaining and exciting show. Of course, the skaters have to do their part. I wouldn't say that the judges deliberately boost someone's scores, but rather that everyone is happy when it's a big showdown and when one of the athletes in the mix is the homegrown champ. Good TV, good publicity for the sport, good money, good vibes all around. It must rub off on the judges to some extent, even if subconsciously, enough to prod a judge toward a +2 instead of +1 here and there.

I guess I partially agree. I do think judges like to keep things close to keep the event interesting; that was built-in to the 6.0 system, in which you usually had to win the LP to win the event. Now, skaters can build a substantial lead in the SP that makes it difficult for competitors to overcome. However, I think whatever home advantage there is comes from the massive audience reaction, rather than judges trying to get a home skater in the mix.

 

[gmyers]

This sounds a little on the trollish side, frankly. We should bash the Korean Federation for what, now? Not whining loudly enough?

Yes because federations have that power! South Korean fed had absolute right to appeal.better than endless hate of poor Sotnikova! Though some like to fantasize about her returning her medal!

 

[Mathman]

Though some like to fantasize about her returning her medal!

To tell the truth I have never heard anyone suggest that Sotnikova return her medal except you.

The Korean Federation could not press an appeal because they had no grounds to support it.

There are, of course, fans who liked Kim's performance better. Quite a different thing.

 

[gmyers]

To tell the truth I have never heard anyone suggest that Sotnikova return her medal except you.

The Korean Federation could not press an appeal because they had no grounds to support it.

There are, of course, fans who liked Kim's performance better. Quite a different thing.

Wasn't this thread about Sotnikova?

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?63797-If-a-skater-rejected-a-title

Korean federation could have asked isu to decide whether a claim had merit or not

 

[Mathman]

Wasn't this thread about Sotnikova?

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?63797-If-a-skater-rejected-a-title

Now I think you are just yanking my chain, G. I just read through the linked thread. NO ONE mentioned Sotnikova on the whole thread except you.

Instead, virtually every poster said, basically, well of course no skater would ever say that he or she was overscored and give back a medal. The skater skates, the judges judge.

 

[YesWay]

Now I think you are just yanking my chain, G. I just read through the linked thread. NO ONE mentioned Sotnikova on the whole thread except you.

Sure. But imagine if a poster wants to bash a skater... how can they do it without breaking forum rules?

First of all, they must not actually name the skater. They must be more subtle these days. They must infer their target by careful description. Disguise their bashing as "innocent" questions... as "humour" or "analysis" or "satire" etc. If it is constructed well enough, it will be obvious who the targets are, no rules will be broken (except perhaps repetition) and other people will do the naming...

How do you tell which posts are really humour, analysis etc?
Could be tricky... but I think it's usually obvious...

 

[Mathman]

Sure. But imagine if a poster wants to bash a skater... how can they do it without breaking forum rules?

First of all, they must not actually name the skater. They must be more subtle these days. They must infer their target by careful description. Disguise their bashing as "innocent" questions... as "humour" or "analysis" or "satire" etc. If it is constructed well enough, it will be obvious who the targets are, no rules will be broken (except perhaps repetition) and other people will do the naming...

How do you tell which posts are really humour, analysis etc? Could be tricky, but I think it's usually obvious...

True (as the present thread attests). But did you actually read the thread that gmyers posted a link to?

 

[YesWay]

True (as the present thread attests). But did you actually read the thread that gmyers posted a link to?

Yes... bad example, not sure it was what gmyers thought it was, given OP's history... but if it was, I'm guessing it didn't receive the kind of replies the OP hoped for... :-D

 

[Ares]

I definitely don't agree with Medvedeva's exorbitantly high PCS but I'd say she usually hits at least 6 out of 8 of her GOE bullets on her StSeq.

Also while we both prefer Osmond's long clean landings, Medvedeva's exit transitions are a) difficult and b) rewarded by the system, if executed. As far as her microscopic spread eagle, an exit transition doesn't have to be the highest quality transition to be counted, especially on a landing when you wouldn't expect a ton of flow compared to a spread eagle on its own (e.g. her spread eagle 10 seconds prior to her 3L in the SP).

Medvedeva should be winning given what the current field is producing compared to her consistency. Whether she deserves the records, well, you are comparing two different seasons (and PCS has risen in the more recent one), and honestly, she has the records so the Kim/Mao fans just need to get over it.

If there ever is a competition that Osmond or Kostner or Miyahara goes completely clean then I would hope that the judges give them comparable PCS. Medvedeva's PCS is a result of consistency... she wouldn't be the first skater to constantly win with excessively high artistic marks just because she's the only one to skate clean and with the highest difficulty, even though she's clearly not the strongest artistically speaking in the field.

Medvedeva is perfectly capable of doing meaningful transitions or of doing beautiful movement (I love that arms gesture after 3Lo & pose going into that and after that in LP, it really wows me so I'd eagerly click +3) & to execute things in her programs / programs that leave great impression but under Averbukh / Tutberidze tutelage I sadly don't expect to start enjoying her skating as I would like to. Not with this system & standard of judging either.

I stand by my opinion that her step sequences don't deserve max GOE, esp. vs other skaters who can do it / or used to do it with much greater quality. I've never seen Medvedeva in person, maybe it's different situation there idk. I am bugged by how much she swings with her free foot, it makes it look like some tough ordeal & technical exercise instead of something done with abandon and compliment the music / step sequence. I sometimes don't see relation between these two either.

 

[Ares]

To tell the truth I have never heard anyone suggest that Sotnikova return her medal except you.

The Korean Federation could not press an appeal because they had no grounds to support it.

There are, of course, fans who liked Kim's performance better. Quite a different thing.

I guess you've never came to read those posts under Sotnikova / Kim Sochi youtube videos? :dumb:

According to supporters of Yuna - she's a two-time Olympic Gold Medallist.

 

[Nathan13]

How to hack COP: Place 9th at Worlds the year before (it worked for both Arakawa and Sotnikova, apparently). I wonder if Tursynbaeva knows that?