How Would Kwan fare in Code of points with this program

[Skatetomusic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIMASKRm_4

Put those two combo's farther into the program and I think the component scores would go through the roof.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIMASKRm_4

Put those two combo's farther into the program and I think the component scores would go through the roof.

I don't think it would score that well, as most pre-COP programs wouldn't. On TES she wouldn't achieve high levels in spins or footwork. (To be fair, she would probably have had much better spins had she needed to accommodate her content to COP). When she did skate under COP she didn't score as high as some might have expected on PCS so I'm not sure she did enough here to warrant higher scores that the programs she geared towards the new judging system.

 

[skateluvr]

loved it ! thanks!

 

[skatinginbc]

When she did skate under COP she didn't score as high as some might have expected on PCS .

That is the part I didn't quite understand. Was it because her relative lack of transitions? But transition is only one of the components. How about her famous interpretation and presentation? I'm no expert. I wish someone can enlighten me.

 

[Serious Business]

That is the part I didn't quite understand. Was it because her relative lack of transitions? But transition is only one of the components. How about her famous interpretation and presentation? I'm no expert. I wish someone can enlighten me.

Kwan had very few competitions under the COP, and at that point she was far from her best physically. Not a surprise, really. But also not really enough of a sample size to draw any conclusions from.

 

[pangtongfan]

I don't think it would score that well, as most pre-COP programs wouldn't.

Possibly true, but that just shows everyone that is wrong with COP anyway.

When she did skate under COP she didn't score as high as some might have expected on PCS

Her programs at the 2005 Worlds, especialy her LP, wasnt that great to begin with, and she didnt even skate her LP that well at Worlds. She did well considering.

 

[Mathman]

Kwan had very few competitions under the COP,...

One. Right?

 

[antmanb]

It would depend on many things including which incarnation of the COP you would use - the one in place today? The one that was in place when COP was first used or the 2 or 3 versions in between those?

As others have pointed out the spins would all likely be called Level 1, as would the step sequence. There would be a missing sequence (be it spiral or step depending on the version of COP you use).

The final triple toe wouldn't count towards the TES as the 8th jumping pass.

A programme constructed for one judging system is unlikely to hold up well under the rules of a judging system that was not even conceived of at the time the programme was created.

 

[Mathman]

I thought this program did a good job of showing how Michelle used spins in her programs. They seem more like part of the choreography than technical elements. They are slow when the music is slow, fast when the music is fast. Each position seems to contribute something to the program.

Spins have gone in a different direction under the new scoring system.

 

[dorispulaski]

I think perhaps her earlier programs would have scored better under COP, with some spin upgrades.

Michelle had a camel reverse camel spin one year (not 1996) that would have worked well.

1996 SP Romanza (Eurosport commentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imuQWeIi4Q

1996 LP Salome had a lot more transitional moves than Ariane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJwtHxPifjo&feature=related

 

[Olympia]

Yeah, Michelle was possibly the last amateur skater to spin in both directions, something John Curry also did. And, as Math said, her spins were in service of the music. as was her footwork. I really cringe these days when I watch some skater embark on a sequence of frenzied footwork that has nothing to do with the musical rhythm.

 

[kwanatic]

Rachael Flatt is the only other female skater, IIRC, who spins in both directions.

In response to the Kwan programs vs COP, I feel totally blessed to have grown up watching Michelle skate and to have witnessed the number of masterpieces she was able to create on ice...and Ariane is definitely one of them. If you had to tailor this program to COP, it would strip it of all its beauty.

The spins for example: As Mathman said the spins were choreographed to the music (difference in speed) so if you try to envision it with some level 3 or 4 spins (crammed with positions that have to be held for a certain number of revolutions) the spin is extended and the effect is completely lost.

A large amount of the in-between choreography would probably be sacrificed to make way for longer spins, longer footwork...essentially, the program wouldn't be nearly as captivating as it is.

I'm SO glad I didn't have to suffer through Michelle adapting her programs and her style to conform to COP. Michelle wasn't a COP skater granted, her PCS would/should have been decent (IN, CH, SS, PE)...the only one that may have suffered may have been her TR...then again, Alissa Czisny has zero transitions in her programs and she still manages to get high 7s so I think Michelle would have been okay.

I'm grateful to have had her in the Golden Age of skating, under 6.0 where she belonged. I'm used to COP now and appreciate it for what it is, but trying to compare pre-COP programs to the system today?...apples and oranges. The rules and requirements are just too different.

 

[lavender]

I don't think Michelle would have suffered if she stayed. Kwan would have adjusted if it wasn't for her hip imo.


That Bolero program (which I never really liked) wasn't really COP friendly but she still came in 3rd in her first COP competition.

 

[gkelly]

Yeah, Michelle was possibly the last amateur skater to spin in both directions, something John Curry also did.

Rachael Flatt is the only other female skater, IIRC, who spins in both directions.

Going back to Curry's day,
Dianne DeLeeuw used to do her layback in the opposite direction from her other spins and her jumps.
Lisa Marie Allen used to do camels in both directions

Vanessa Gusmeroli did an opposite-direction camel (IIRC) in her multiple-spin sequence at the end of her 2000 LP

More recently, Joannie Rochette used to do an upright spin that changed directions. Since last season, though, that doesn't gain a feature any more so we probably won't see other skaters using that option.

I'm sure there have probably been a few others using the change of direction feature over the years especially under IJS to gain a level, but not prominent enough for me to think of offhand, if I've even seen them


In any case, Kwan certainly had enough skills that she would have been able to earn higher levels on her elements if she'd known the rules about which skills to use in which combinations (which have changed over the history of the IJS), and she would have been able to aim for and usually earn +GOEs and high component marks as well. If the new system had been introduced while she was working her way up or right at her peak, I'm sure she'd have developed and figured out how best to showcase the skills needed to win medals

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Buttle did in Naqoyqaatsi.

 

[ivy]

The spins were what stood out to me. So nice to have them freed from the complexity that CoP has created. Michelle would have been a champ in any system!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The spins were what stood out to me. So nice to have them freed from the complexity that CoP has created. Michelle would have been a champ in any system!

I agree, Michelle is so talented she would have built the necessary skill set to win. But as others have said, it might have made some of her most memorable programs (like the one linked to by the OP) less enjoyable. Before COP, skaters could hold out moves so they looked visually appealing; now, everything looks so frantic because they are trying to cram so much content in their programs. A perfect example is Mirai's program. The music is suited to moves being held out but she just rushes from element to element, and this distracts from the program.