I think Ashley Wagner's going to become the biggest rival to Yu-na and/or Mao in 2010

[jsteam4501s]

I'm not sure what many of you folks consider to be the value of "speed" in ladies' figure skating. Smaller skaters look like they are moving faster than they really are, and the result. for example, is that Rachel looks slower than Nagasu when in fact Rachel has adequate speed for her size and body type. But in any case, I don't believe that speed is as important to the judges in their scoring as is generally believed. For years, I heard Peggy Fleming say in a slow manner, "she ......seemed......a bit...........saloooooooooow", but I've never sensed that speed plays a huge part in the different placements of skaters - I don't think it's a "meat and potatoes" issue. JMO.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

I'm not sure what many of you folks consider to be the value of "speed" in ladies' figure skating. Smaller skaters look like they are moving faster than they really are, and the result. for example, is that Rachel looks slower than Nagasu when in fact Rachel has adequate speed for her size and body type. But in any case, I don't believe that speed is as important to the judges in their scoring as is generally believed. For years, I heard Peggy Fleming say in a slow manner, "she ......seemed......a bit...........saloooooooooow", but I've never sensed that speed plays a huge part in the different placements of skaters - I don't think it's a "meat and potatoes" issue. JMO.

I disagree. You should think twice about this. I think Speed is why Kwan lost to Lipinski in Nagano. It really does look bad if you don't have speed. If both Mirai and RAchael had done 7 triples in her program and if judges were to choose, they would go with Mirai hands down. That's why even though Flatt placed first in the long program this year, I will never change my mind about Mirai being the superior skater and having much more potential.

 

[jennylovskt]

Ashley Wagner reminded me so much of Emily Hughes. They both have very, very beautiful face and similar body type. Energetic, refreshing, no doubt. They might accomplish and achieve on the same level too?

 

[cassieandcheetah]

Ashley Wagner reminded me so much of Emily Hughes. They both have very, very beautiful face and similar body type. Energetic, refreshing, no doubt. They might accomplish and achieve on the same level too?

That doesn't bode well for Ashley then lol. JMO. Yes, they're very very similar in style and in their looks and in the way they skate, which ironically is why I'll never come to like Ashley too much.

 

[dizzydi7]

Ashley Wagner

KS777,

Wow, that's great that you picked up on the Hughes/Wagner thing. I totally missed that connection! That's almost eerie.

Unless the U.S. ladies do well at Worlds the next couple of years, this could be a moot point. We desperately need those three spots.

Providing Ashley makes its on the Olympic team, I can see such a thing happening. It just takes some mistakes by a few key people and she could easily pull a Tara/Sarah scenario. Ashley has that spark in her skating that really sells the program. Although I'm not a fan if this style, she does make me smile when she skates much like Emily Hughes. They both have the ability to express their love and joy of skating to the audience. I find Rachel Flatt to have this quality also.

As far as the comment about Kimmie Meissner.....I think the reason she doesn't get attention about her looks or healthy, wholesome look is because she does look like the girl next door. There is really nothing so outstanding about Kimmie, in my opinion. Please don't take this the wrong way as it's merely an attempt to explain why she doesn't get more praise. The same goes for her skating.

Dizzy

 

[dorispulaski]

Speed does indeed figure in to COP--it's an important piece of the skating skills mark, and it's one reason that Carolina Kostner places well despite her inconsistent jumps-she's the fastest female skater I have ever seen.

Evaluating the speed of skaters on TV is not as easy as in the rink--you have to watch how much the lettering on the boards blurs behind them, and who wants to watch the boards when a great skater is skating???

Michelle Kwan had very good speed and great efficiency in her stroking so that she didn't have to move her legs very fast to get that good speed. You had to see her live to appreciate that fully.

:rant on:
However, figuring anything out from PCS marks has me completely baffled-they don't vary enough between marks for the same skater to be meaningful and seem to be used as placeholders :rant off

At least for US Nationals, skating skills between the US ladies were ranked as follows in the LP

Mirai 7.29
Ashley 7.04
Rachael 7.00
Caroline 6.54

 

[Tinymavy15]

I disagree. You should think twice about this. I think Speed is why Kwan lost to Lipinski in Nagano. It really does look bad if you don't have speed. If both Mirai and RAchael had done 7 triples in her program and if judges were to choose, they would go with Mirai hands down. That's why even though Flatt placed first in the long program this year, I will never change my mind about Mirai being the superior skater and having much more potential.

Also Marai has fast spins (inculding a great beliiman), much better spirals and just lovely lines all over the place. As for speed being the reason Michelle lost in Nagano... maybe it played a part, but lets not forget that Tara landed TWO 3/3 combos, very hard ones while michelle landed none and just managed to save her flip. personally, i saw nothing wrong with michelle's speed at Nagano. She skated her best, but so did Tara.

Ashley Wagner reminded me so much of Emily Hughes. They both have very, very beautiful face and similar body type. Energetic, refreshing, no doubt. They might accomplish and achieve on the same level too?

I would not cal either of them "beautiful" and Ashley actually relates to and listens to her music.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

I thought Ashley's LP performance at the Nationals was the best I've seen in a single ladies event this season. She has a great sense of music and she has more power and control to her skating moves. I went back to Youtube to see her TEB LP and I thought she was better than Kimmie or Mao in expression. I was watching the Nationals with my mom and she was like, "she's better than Yu-na." I don't think 2010 is going to be a two-pony race at all. Mirai Nagasu - although she skates like a diluted version of Yu-na, Mao, Michelle now, she's pretty impressive at her age, clearly set apart from Caroline Zhang whose skating I cannot enjoy at all because of lukewarm speed. Although I'm a Yu-na fan, I think Ashley, Rachel, Mirai all have a good shot at the gold in 2010.

I just read this message again and was a bit apalled by some of the things said here. I know everything's a matter of opinion, but it's going waaaaaaay too far to say that Ashley Wagner's better than Yu-Na. There's a reason why Kim gets such high scores in her sp even when she's messed up her 3-3 combo or missed her double axel...she's just THAT good. And what ashley's done here is not that incredible an achievement. Ever since the age rule came along, people seem to have forgotten that the true stars of skating for a while were ones in their mid teens. I believe Kwan was at her best at age15, there was also Oksana Baiul, and of course That "Tara" girl (LOL), even though for Lipinski there was still much room for artistic improvement....It actually makes me kind of sad. All this hype about Ashley, because to me, she's not at all different from the likes of Emily Hughes, and after her debut at the Olympics 2006 after kwan dropped out, what has exactly happened to Emily?...And everyone already seems to have forgotten about Caroline Zhang altogether after Nationals...And going back to Ashely, I thought her LP at Nationals was just okay. She's much like Emily, kind of unsubtle and bombastic in her expression, so she just makes up for her lack of subltety and smoothness with obvious, emphatic arm movements. That's easy to do (unless you're Kimmie, who, even after years of competing, seems to revert back to her introverted self every single time, now THAT's frustrating too), but what people like Kwan or Ekaterina Gordeeva can do isn't. It's a real achievement to have good lines and posture, it's not a matter of choice to choose between that and tomboyish, I'm just in her for fun athleticism that masks clumsiness. You have to have both grace and athleticism in equal measures. It's not easy to look beautfiul and graceful on the ice. Mirai and Yu-Na don't achieve that by being "diluted" versions of Michelle Kwan. THey've earned it by hard work.

 

[blue dog]

I personally like Ashley's style. She's artistic in her own right--through her athleticism. Kinda like Elaine Zayak, Irina Slutskaya, and Tonya Harding--in their heydays.

The one thing I didn't like about her LP was the music--I think she could've chosen a better arrangement of Jalousie than the Perez Hilton one she chose.

 

[Wrlmy]

I liked Ashley's SP a lot. She did pretty good with her lp but, for me, it wasn't believable that she was skating to Tango. Her elements were good, and she proved she has pretty good musicality. But I don't know why I didn't get any tango vibe from her skating. (Actually, I know why. I like to think that music belongs to Granny )

 

[fourclover]

Mirai and Yu-Na don't achieve that by being "diluted" versions of Michelle Kwan. THey've earned it by hard work.

I didn't say Mirai and Yu-na are diluted versions of Michelle. If you re-read my post you'll see that I said fourteen year old Mirai is a diluted version of Yu-na, Mao and Michelle all rolled into one at this stage. I think Mirai will become a skater somewhere in the middle of those three. Also, I don't know if you read any of my old posts but I'm one of few minority skating fans who were never impressed with Michelle Kwan's style of skating. Her skating didn't look beautiful to me like Yu-na's or Mao's do now. Regardless of whether Kwan had better posture or leg positions or not, I thought she had ugly physique (short legs, big head) which didn't do much for any of the "artistic" moves, postures, etc. she did out there. Her speed wasn't that great either. I was one of the few that tuned out of ladies figure skating during the ten years Michelle, Sasha, Irina, and Sarah ruled because none of them were beautiful to watch (in my eyes). Sarah Hughes (heavy jumps) and Sasha Cohen (short legs) weren't all that pleasing to my eyes. I don't care if you say Yu-na's leg position in spins and lack of stretch in spirals are ugly too. And that Sasha had better stretch and ballerina-like grace than Mao. IMO Yu-na and Mao's natural elegance surpasses their handicaps and I enjoy watching them skate.

 

[Mathman]

I'm sorry all those grotesque and ugly skaters of the last decade were so physically repulsive to you that you couldn't bear to watch them. I am glad that the current crop are not quite so hideous and offensive to your eyes.

 

[dutchherder]

Am I the only one who thinks Ashley and Emily's skating styles are not at all alike? They don't look alike. They don't skate alike. What do they have in common? Um....they're American, they're Caucasian, they have brown hair???:scratch:

 

[Wrlmy]

Am I the only one who thinks Ashley and Emily's skating styles are not at all alike? They don't look alike. They don't skate alike. What do they have in common? Um....they're American, they're Caucasian, they have brown hair???:scratch:

They are relatively "bigger", they have extrovert style on the ice, they are both JW bronze medalists. But Ashley is better and prettier Couldn't help it, LOL

And fourclover, I'm appalled that short legs kept you from enjoying skating. Did you enjoy Marya Butyrskaya and Lucinda Ruh at least?

 

[ks777]

I think Sarah Hughes and Ashley skates similar, both rotate the same direction and love the loop jump. I am sorry but don't see the smiliarity between Emily and Ashley.

 

[fourclover]

They are relatively "bigger", they have extrovert style on the ice, they are both JW bronze medalists. But Ashley is better and prettier Couldn't help it, LOL

And fourclover, I'm appalled that short legs kept you from enjoying skating. Did you enjoy Marya Butyrskaya and Lucinda Ruh at least?

Actually, I thougth Marya Butryskaya's skating was too robotic and thus boring.

By the way, I think Ashley has beautiful physique. No, to me, she doesn't look nor skate like any of Hughes sisters. She reminded me of Katarina Witt-1920's-flapper-style when she skated to Tango Jalousie in her LP.

 

[Eddie Lee]

I don't believe there is a woman skater that can challenge a clean Yu-Na Kim or Mao Asada--this year, that is! Only they can challenge each other! It is like both were born to skate. Effortless speed, spectacular jumps amazing musicality....they seem to have it all, notwithstanding Mao's flutz and jump repertoire issues. Come 2009 and 2010, Mirai, Caroline, and perhaps Ashley may have reached a position of challenging, but at the present juncture, both Kim and Asada will have to falter for another challenger to win the gold. (I love the possible future for our new US ladies, but this season still belongs to Kim and Asada.)

 

[Wrlmy]

Actually, I thougth Marya Butryskaya's skating was too robotic and thus boring.

By the way, I think Ashley has beautiful physique. No, to me, she doesn't look nor skate like any of Hughes sisters. She reminded me of Katarina Witt-1920's-flapper-style when she skated to Tango Jalousie in her LP.

Omg you called my favorite Russian skater a robot! Now my last card left is Yoshie Onda and duh! But I have to agree Butyrskaya was tense at many occasions, she had a few great moments though.
Oh and I have this mental image of Ashley in Kat Witt's Carmen dress, and she surprisingly looks soooooo good, I mean in my mental image lol. OTOH, her lp dress is just not flattering. Actually, most top ladies need better dress. They seriously should go to Vera Wang or Project Runway guys.

 

[Tonichelle]

add me to the list of those that just didn't *get* Maria's skating... saw her in a show in 99, and wasn't all that impressed....

Josee Chouinard, on the other hand, even with the falls was so much fun!

 

[ManyCairns]

Josee Chouinard, on the other hand, even with the falls was so much fun![/QUOTE]

Absolutely!

Side note: I always thought she was thrown off her game a little in the Olys when Tonya went sobbing to the judges over her broken lace. They should've let the same amount of time elapse that Tonya's skate would've taken before they called Josee, but they didn't.

Not that Josee was a model of consistency. But,as you said, she was always fun! Real personality on the ice!