Ice Dance - FD

[dwiggin3]

I really like this dance for V/M - I hope they keep it for next year. Oh, I just love it!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

The decision to leave Zhulin was made long time. There could be many reasons, one of which is that Zhulin is focusing on Russian skaters. I suspect with the loss this year, they will be working hard to get on the podium next year in France.

Also, the latest rumor is that Russian Federation is not happy with Zhulin's work and I/K may also soon be leaving to different coach.

Yeah, I fully expected that development with I/K.

 

[alithia]

I have a hunch they will be send to Linichuk.It was said last year that Linichuk asked or the fed proposed to her B/S.But they don't leave Kustarova,so maybe it's I/K that are gonna be sent there..

 

[Lucky Star]

I have a hunch they will be send to Linichuk.It was said last year that Linichuk asked or the fed proposed to her B/S.But they don't leave Kustarova,so maybe it's I/K that are gonna be sent there..

Linichuk already has Pushkash/Guerreiro. And I/K, especially Nikita, won't leave Zhulin

 

[dorispulaski]

I've watched all the FD's, but not all the SD's so far, although I have seen V&M's and D&W's (and want to watch them both again).

I thought perhaps it would be interesting to look at the protocols a bit.

The most surprising thing in the SD is that D&W outscored V&M in the Golden Waltz. What's shocking about this is that D&W haven't outscored V&M in a CD in a very long time; maybe never, and they were clearly better in the Golden here. In fact, D&W put on a clinic on how to score well in the Pattern Dance in the new Short Dance / COP system, which is wildly different than last year's system. In fact, D&W would have won the SD too, if Charlie hadn't been slow to grab his foot in the twizzles. .

Next year, V&M will be more used to the system changes, and they will probably beat D&W again, but it was interesting to see how it worked out this year for me.

SHORT DANCE

D& W Step / V&M Step 10.14 / 10.43 (both level 4)

D&W GW1 / V&M GW1 7.00 / 7.00 (Level 4 for both)
D&W GW2 / V&M GW2 9.00 (Level 4) / 7.93 (Level 3)

Total GW ( 16.00 / 14.93 )

D&W Twizzles / V&M Twizzles 5.93 (Level 3) / 7.29 (Level 4)
D&W Lift / V&M Lift 5.29 / 5.29

Total Tech 37.36 / 37.94


D&W PCS / V&M PCS

Skating Skills 9.04 / 9.00
Linking Footwork & Movement 8.93 / 8.82
Performance 9.14 / 9.18
Choreography 9.14 / 9.18
Interpretation / Timing 9.21 / 9.21

Total 36.40 / 36.35

In the free dance, D&W outscored V&M in every technical category and either outscored or tied in every PCS category. The high point for V&M was having the best lift. For those wondering why that happened, no, the Americans did not buy the bloc or something. For one thing, the one thing in the past that the US fed has cared much about is where the US ladies finish, and every once in a while they appear to care about the men. Pairs? Dance? Not much.

I loved the beginning & end of V&M's FD! It's so nice to see them doing a really joyous party style dance, and it's a nice change from their programs of the last several years IMO! For some reason, my favorite bit was when they're standing still doing that Hip Hip Chin Chin pair of little moves, so sharp. However, the only element in that section was those cool circular twizzles, so most of that great stuff only counted toward choreo & interp. For me, the Temptation part seemed to drag a bit, though. And the footwork and spin were rather generic, as they just didn't have the training time to make them more special.

Their FD was a great tune-up for next year's SD, though.

FREE DANCE
D&W Lifts/ V&M Lifts
5.43 / 5.5
5.14 / 5.21
5.21 / 5.21
5.36 / 5.07

Net 21.14 / 20.99

D&W Steps / V&M Steps
10.14 (level 4) / 8.5 (level 3)
8.64 (level 3) / 8.36 (level 3)

net 18.78 / 16.86

D&W Twizzles / V&M Twizzles
7.5 / 7.36

D&W Spin / V&M Spin 6.36 / 6.00

D&W Tech/ V&M Tech 53.78 / 51.21

D&W PCS / V&M PCS
Skating Skills 9.57 / 9.32
Linking Footwork/ Movement 9.54 / 9.04
Performance 9.68 / 9.54
Choreography 9.75 / 9.64
Interpretation / Timing 9.64 / 9.64

Total 57.73 / 56.29

The most surprising (and gratifying) placing for me were Weaver and Poje. How appropriate that their SD is partially to At Last!!!! I enjoyed so much seeing them skate both their programs the very best they could! And their SD is really my favorite of the season.

The second nice surprise was the improvement of Chock and Zuerlein. I like both their SD and FD programs, but they were rather sloppy at SC and at TEB (especially in the FD), so it was very nice to see them give some very nice programs. The FD was particularly clean and relaxed, and really seemed to please the Russian audience who were clapping along with the music. C&Z did a really great job of conveying a Cabaret atmosphere! I think they've really found their style. In fact, choreographically, it's my favorite FD this year.

I'm rather afraid that skating back to back with C&Z in the FD didn't help C&P who looked if anything, worse than at Skate Canada, where they won and C&Z just eked out a bronze, but only finishing 4th in the FD. But I am rather puzzled that C&P finished as low as they did. I wonder whether they had trouble adjusting their training to the different date for Worlds?

 

[gmyers]

Boo hoo for the Shibutanis - they were basically told they have no room to grow or improve and are the third best team in te world. Boo hoo.

 

[CARA]

Boo hoo for the Shibutanis - they were basically told they have no room to grow or improve and are the third best team in te world. Boo hoo.

And how many points your favorite team was behind the Shibs, and just how much your favorite one screwed up? Frustrated, aren't you?

 

[100yen]

Boo hoo for the Shibutanis - they were basically told they have no room to grow or improve and are the third best team in te world. Boo hoo.

Being successful =/= Having no room to improve. :disapp:

ETA: Thank you for the analysis, Doris!! Really great to hear your points as always! :agree:

 

[chuckm]

Boo hoo for the Shibutanis - they were basically told they have no room to grow or improve and are the third best team in te world. Boo hoo.

They were the third best team at the 2011 World Championships. But that doesn't mean there's no room to grow or improve. Ice dancing is fiercely competitive, and ALL teams (including D/W and V/M) have to continually grow and improve, or they will slip in the standings.

C/P were 8th in the world last year, and seemed poised to move up to seed status, but they stagnated this year, and didn't seem to improve since their gold-winning first event at Skate Canada, and dropped to 10th.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I had a feeling something was off with V/M's FD, and when I see this photo, it confirmed that her posture was off, http://www.thestar.com/sports/figur...-and-moir-surrender-championship-belt-for-now

I believe in latin dance, the action was more chest down, focusing on the middle setion, hips and knees; the neck, head and should should be relatively restricted, upright and squared. Her forward huntching does not resemble the dance very well IMO.

Tessa did seem to struggle with that dance. The first 1/3 (Hip, hip, chin, chin) was great but after that he really seemed to "get" the latin style more than she did. really no hip action from her.

 

[museksk8r]

C/P were 8th in the world last year, and seemed poised to move up to seed status, but they stagnated this year, and didn't seem to improve since their gold-winning first event at Skate Canada, and dropped to 10th.

Crone/Poirier were 7th last year.

 

[chuckm]

Crone/Poirier were 7th last year.

Then it's an even bigger drop.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Which is even truer when you consider that the teams that placed 3rd, 5th and 6th last season, were not at worlds this season.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Gee, I've wanted to be blabbing more, but life keeps getting in the way...First I have to say that the 'posture' business is a silly knock on Tessa, since that photo has caught her in mid-gyration. Their dance obviously just needed a bit more time. I think if it had had 6 competitive outings , like D/W's , Meryl and Charlie would have been doomed to another silver ( Not a bad doom for either team. )

D/W ( all credit to them ) worked on that dance like fiends this year, and it paid off . It was vastly improved from the beginning of the season. The true tango expression was still lacking for me ,though , and their best, at least , most moving FD ,for me , remains S&D. Still , I'm happy for them.

Also, if I might make a minor correction, Paul Mc Intosh did not say C/P would revolutionize ice dance (which would mean that all sorts of couples would be trying to emulate them ). He said, at the very end of his comments (after being led and pressed by PJ , who obviously has a special connection with the Lane / Razgulajevs school ), that they would be world changers..which might mean any number of things. It may mean that he believes they'll grow to realize their potential, or that they're good enough that they won't be able to be dismissed whether judges like their style , or not...or, who knows ???) It was definitely complimentary, but his specific meaning was unclear. Though he had a hand in the early training of both V/M and W/P ,he praised all the Canadian teams , reserving , I thought ,special praise for V/M.( Which is understandable. ) He had easily as much praise for W/P as for C/P, but was very objective in his comments. So I doubt he would be happy to be misquoted in this particular way. I was glad he stressed that all our top teams are young and we can look forward to more development and improvement from all of them.

I'm off for walkies, I'll have to come back.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

You know, you always have to walk your dogs, you always say you'll come back, but you don't always do. (just teasin' ya)

But thanks for the McIntosh correction. I really do wonder what what he meant now. And I totally agree - Samson and Delilah remains D/W's finest FD so far.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Well, I always mean to come back ... and now it's too darned late !

 

[dorispulaski]

I'd have to agree that S&D was Davis and White's best FD ever.

However, I respect the work they did on the Tango FD more-I loved S&D from the first time I saw it at Skate Canada-it was perfect for them. They really had to work to master that Tango FD, just from a technical point of view, and the work they did is showing for those who know where to look in their exhibition this year and in the Golden Waltz part of their SD.

They will be glad in future they did that Tango FD, and not just because it was the one they finally won Worlds with.

 

[shine]

Ilinykh/Katsalapov: I think they are over-rated today, but do have lots of potential. She is absolutely gorgeous and a fabulous skater. He needs a lot more work yet. The SD was much better than the FD. The problem with SD, in my opinion, is that the music was way too big for the waltz. It was missing the light, flowing nature of the other top dances. They are a little more like Davis/White, and should take their cue from them to tone down the drama just a little for something like this SD. Davis/White used music from an opera, but it was not quite as jarring. In the FD, it just wasn't that good, and wasn't nearly as difficult as the others. Like someone else stated further up-thread, they need new coaches, different music, and re-packaging - and focus and training away from the adoring public. They are going to have to do these things, since there are a number of really good Russian teams, including at Junior, and they will need to do much better than this year if they want to be the top Russian team.

Do you mind elaborating on why you thought their SD was not as difficult as the others and why he in particular needs a lot of improvement? And why do you feel they need repackaging? What kind of packaging would you suggest?

 

[nikiya]

I/ K are a talented, young team, but after watching that FD I think it's almost perverse to have them skate to Don Q. Even if one just glanced at the program on a very superficial level, I/ K's interpretation, not counting skating skills, was only just okay. IMO they spent a lot of time frozen in bravura Spanish poses made famous in the actual ballet choreographed by Petipa of the Kirov and later Gorsky at the Bolshoi. Moreover, Elena didn't have even basic or correct epaulement, and her arm positions were especially troublesome. Her neutral arm positions lean forward instead of aligning with her shoulders, neck, and upper back, this is a BIG no-no in ballet port de bras, this is ballet 101 in that it's one of the principles you first learn in a properly taught beginner ballet class. Why Zhulin allowed his prized pair to take a step back in eyes of judges by skating to a badly choreographed and ill-prepared Don Q is beyond me.

This wasn't Yuna interpreting to the music of Giselle, I mean I/ K were out on ice in full ballet costumes. If ice dancers are going to skate and interpret a ballet in the full artistic sense, then they should make sure to be perfect within that context as well.

D/ W were absolutely brilliant technically. They only had one level 3 on a DiSt, and how they were able to not lose speed while having holds so close, I'll never know. But I do admit to loving V/ M's FD more, I mean that tempo is insane and I find it odd that their CiSt was only a level 3. I was actually fine with either winning but D/ W had a more dominant season so they got the nod, so I'm happy for them.

This WC is when I finally took notice of the Shibs as the real deal. Their fluidity and skills at such a young stage in their career is something to behold, and it would be interesting to see them progress and branch out even further. Also, the Shibs come across as very likable personalities on ice, they make you want to root for them. That's a very rare and special quality to possess. Their FD was infectious and at certain points they made me want to go join them out on the ice....dance for the sake of dancing, sometimes you don't need any drama or motives to dance. That's how I sum up their charming FD.

 

[Spun Silver]

Love the description of the Shibs, nikiya. This wasn't even their best performance of the season. I agree about the interpretation of Don Q too. I/K didn't pull it off.