Ice Dance - short dance

[icefan1005]

Woah, don't blame it on V/M.

totally agree --score is too low=-==already rigged for virture and moir
cant have ogm lose right==lose credibility=hey they already lost crediiblity,
talk about educating public, guess what we are educated--you are making us seem dumb-we arent we are smarter than that.
you are losing you public by thinking we are dumb and don't know enough.
so keep it up. you will lose altogether.
should have been at least 10 points higher
want to be v/m gets a 80-85 in sd

 

[draqq]

Protocols are interesting.... very interesting....

Both V/M and D/W were given level 3's on both rhumba sequences and the step sequence. P/B got a level 4 on both of the rhumbas. Where I don't agree is on the PCS scores for P/B and W/P. There is no way that W/P should have lower PCS than I/K. That's ridiculous. Of all the rhumbas out there, it was V/M and W/P who had the very best latin feel to their dance. Sorry, but P/B were tentative and not completely Latin. W/P were strong and awesome. There is no way they should have any PCS marks in the 7's. I understand that P/B are on home ice, and she was injured, and it is spectacular that they are even skating, and then putting in a solid performance. But the way the PCS were awarded looks more than a little suspicious to me. 69 is way too high for what they did, especially compared to W/P. I'd almost tie D/W and W/P, and maybe even put W/P ahead. D/W were not fully on their game today.

I agree that P/B got crowd favorite PCS points. I still find their program lacking in Latin flavor, though I like their interpretative skills on the samba.

The PCS scores I/K received are scandalous. Both of them looked extremely stiff and serious throughout the Latin dance, and thoroughly lacked sizzle or vitality to it. Nothing should feel like a board room in Latin.

 

[katia]

I have no problem with levels for V/M and D/W but I do not understand levels and marks given P/B. P/B were, in my opinion, much worse than D/W. I think P/B were also worse than W/P.
NorthernDancers, you told it much better than I can. I completely agree with you.

 

[ILoveFigures]

Protocols are interesting.... very interesting....

Both V/M and D/W were given level 3's on both rhumba sequences and the step sequence. P/B got a level 4 on both of the rhumbas. Where I don't agree is on the PCS scores for P/B and W/P. There is no way that W/P should have lower PCS than I/K. That's ridiculous. Of all the rhumbas out there, it was V/M and W/P who had the very best latin feel to their dance. Sorry, but P/B were tentative and not completely Latin. W/P were strong and awesome. There is no way they should have any PCS marks in the 7's. I understand that P/B are on home ice, and she was injured, and it is spectacular that they are even skating, and then putting in a solid performance. But the way the PCS were awarded looks more than a little suspicious to me. 69 is way too high for what they did, especially compared to W/P. I'd almost tie D/W and W/P, and maybe even put W/P ahead. D/W were not fully on their game today.

Do you actually believe this little conspiracy theory of yours? Really?? P/B skated like the champions they are, and W/P skated great too. The main difference between them imo is that W/P just don't have the same skating skills that P/B have, and that's were the difference is. Personally I have a hard time understanding how someone can claim that the results are suspicious when the teams are as great as they are. Seems biased to me.

 

[Mrs. P]

You're probably right, and I'm ok with that, just wondering why V/M's margin of GOE on certain elements (lift and twizzles) is so large. I am not saying the placement was wrong, just questioning the margin given the fact that levels were the same and PCS was far closer.

I think D/W did look a little bit tight out there and V/M did a good job selling their program, that might had some influence in the +GOE.

The bigger mystery to me is I/K's score. Their levels seem a bit generous for what they did out there today. I thought they should have been behind C/L.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Woah, don't blame it on V/M.

And don't blame it on D/W either when Fairly4 does on their behalf what s/he accuses Scott of doing.

 

[katia]

Do you actually believe this little conspiracy theory of yours? Really?? P/B skated like the champions they are, and W/P skated great too. The main difference between them imo is that W/P just don't have the same skating skills that P/B have, and that's were the difference is. Personally I have a hard time understanding how someone can claim that the results are suspicious when the teams are as great as they are. Seems biased to me.

Judges also can be somewhat biased, even if they try to be fair. It is normal. And it has nothing to do with conspiracy, just with human nature

 

[Mrs. P]

Actually folks, I think the judging was fair for V/M - D/W. If the whole Canadian fix thing (because of the TS is CAN) was in place, V/M would have gotten a higher score, me thinks. (And W/P would have scored higher). It's relatively close, folks. I know we're used to smaller margins but 1.33 is not a huge margin to overcome.

I think the couples that benefited most today were P/B (some, not excessive hometown judging) and I/K (where did those levels come from?).

 

[Skater Boy]

I believe V and M deserved to be in first probably a bit more of a lead though in my opinion. I do think P and B were overmarked; yes D and W were tight but I actually think I preferred Weaver and Poje over P and B though I do think being in France helps P and B. Yeah for DOnahoe and Hubbell but I did feel sorry for B and S to fall at World's on a day when their teammates all struggled - sad. With the fall comes quite possibly losing a third russian dance team. I and K will be hard pressed to stay ahead of C and L and B and S probably won't catch the Shibs with that fall.

 

[katia]

Uh, I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed C/L, I really like this team.

 

[Mirunna]

According to the protocol, B/S aren't so low because of the fall(since it didn't happen on an element) but because of low levels.

 

[ILoveFigures]

Judges also can be somewhat biased, even if they try to be fair. It is normal. And it has nothing to do with conspiracy, just with human nature

That's not what I stated. I said that I have a hard time understanding how someone can claim that the results are suspicious when the teams are as great as they are. There is absolutely nothing suspicious about these results what so ever. Having watched both W/P & P/B live this season, and having just watched their performances here, I have no problems with the result. They both did GREAT, but thankfully the team with the better skating skills went ahead. And, they are still close.

Just because one prefers one team over the other, doesn't mean the results are corrupt!

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm not a fan of either D/W or V/M - I enjoy both of their FDs this year, but their SDs were just meh.... until today. holy wow but I felt that Tessa and Scott owned the SD. Did their blades even touch the ice? They seemed to be floating above it...

My favorite, though, was P/B's SD... so much character and fun. Like Tanith said, it was entertainment. I don't think the scores are wrong at all. I work from home and had to take calls during most of it, so maybe on second review (which thankfully is after I turn my phone off for the day) I will have a different opinion of some of the lower ranked teams, but I think top 3 is spot on.

Shiboos were better at nationals for me I love me some Shiboos...

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm not a fan of either D/W or V/M - I enjoy both of their FDs this year, but their SDs were just meh.... until today. holy wow but I felt that Tessa and Scott owned the SD. Did their blades even touch the ice? They seemed to be floating above it...

My favorite, though, was P/B's SD... so much character and fun. Like Tanith said, it was entertainment. I don't think the scores are wrong at all. I work from home and had to take calls during most of it, so maybe on second review (which thankfully is after I turn my phone off for the day) I will have a different opinion of some of the lower ranked teams, but I think top 3 is spot on.

Shiboos were better at nationals for me I love me some Shiboos...

Yeah, I'm sad for the Shibs too. I think they have been SOOO determined to conquer their SD challenges and work it that they sort of made some silly mistakes on the technical side. I'm glad that they can move on to a new dance next season. (They will totally rock it, me thinks).

I do agree that they did it best at Nationals..

 

[NorthernDancers]

Do you actually believe this little conspiracy theory of yours? Really?? P/B skated like the champions they are, and W/P skated great too. The main difference between them imo is that W/P just don't have the same skating skills that P/B have, and that's were the difference is. Personally I have a hard time understanding how someone can claim that the results are suspicious when the teams are as great as they are. Seems biased to me.

In this case, there is definitely a halo effect from skating on home ice while injured, whether deliberate or not. I'm not arguing the levels so much, since the judges tended to like the Kry/Car camp of rhumbas better than the Canton rhumbas. That was a definite trend. It's all so close it's hard to judge on the rhumba itself. On the quality of execution of the elements, W/P had more attack, they oozed latin flavour out of every pore of their bodies through every element, they were fast, they had great unison, and their lines and edges were fantastic. There was a time when I'd agree with you that W/P skating skills (especially W) were not good enough for the top. Not today in the SD. They were fully on their game. I'm going to watch this again, but I think W/P were maybe even better than D/W today. It was that good. P/B were slower, more careful, did not have a good latin interpretation, and generally did not have the full body movement that W/P had. W/P skated lights out. So when W/P are behind I/K in PCS (ridiculous), and P/B are almost the same score as D/W who were only 1.3ish points away from V/M, yes, my eyebrows are raised. Not many skaters had a personal best today. The judging was much harder than in Quebec, but they still came out with a personal best, even though their skate was not as good as Quebec. It was out of line with how the rest of the competition was judged, which I thought was mostly fair, if a little harsh.

 

[wonderlen3000]

You're probably right, and I'm ok with that, just wondering why V/M's margin of GOE on certain elements (lift and twizzles) is so large. I am not saying the placement was wrong, just questioning the margin given the fact that levels were the same and PCS was far closer.

PCS = Points 4 Canuck Skaters??? once again judges love with GOE continue...

 

[missysays]

Yeah, I'm sad for the Shibs too. I think they have been SOOO determined to conquer their SD challenges and work it that they sort of made some silly mistakes on the technical side. I'm glad that they can move on to a new dance next season. (They will totally rock it, me thinks).

I do agree that they did it best at Nationals..

I agree too! I think I've been the most impressed with their willingness to re-work their programs and really dig deep and work on presenting a more mature and authentic Latin feeling dance. From my perspective they now have one of my favorite Latin SD's this season. They may not have performed it perfectly from a technical perspective here at this competition but they've grown and stretched themselves as performers.

Their time will come. I find them an endearing and also exhilarating and exciting team to watch.

 

[skatingbc]

PCS = Points 4 Canuck Skaters??? once again judges love with GOE continue...

You realize PCS and GOE are different right?

 

[Art&Sport]

... D/W were not fully on their game today.

It's a very fine line. And in this case, it comes down to subjectivity for you to think that D/W were not on their game. D/W laid it down, and V/M went out and did them one better. D/W were great and V/M were impeccable -- ironically the competition between these two teams is what makes each of them fight that much harder. They are both at the top of their games. The other top teams IMO are quite good, but not overall as great as D/W and V/M.

For their technical mistakes in the rhumba section, the Shibs were hit hard. It looked to me like Maia and Alex in this case were not able to make their nerves work for them. They were just slightly off, but that's all it takes.

Bronze belongs to W/P in my truly unbiased opinion (because I only became a real W/P fan five minutes ago) and I really hope P/B don't take it with a sympathy/home vote. Just the thought makes me . I don't see how that bandage program can compare to Je Suis Malade!

P/B fairly or unfairly have the advantage of home field. I think W/P are better in many aspects than P/B. W/P have certainly proved their worth all season long. I'd love to see W/P win bronze, but the French might riot if P/B don't at least come in third. Did you see the look on Gwendal Peizarat's face at the scores of the other French team who did not perform well?

No comparison. V/M are in a league of their own. I would have given them a 4 point cushion. Free Dance will be closer though.

Why? Because you know just how good D/W are, so you think V/M need a cushion to sit on? D/W free dance is a masterpiece! The free dance of V/M while good, has had to be tweaked to improve it, which they did at 4CC. So yes, again it should be a battle in the fd, because both top teams want this championship. If D/W skate their fd to the highest level, they should win, but alas fs is a political sport, and the fact that no U.S. officials are represented on either the judging panel or on the technical panel (while Canada is represented on both), IMO will definitely make it that slight bit more difficult for Meryl and Charlie to come out on top. Also, -1:33 behind although not insurmountable is a sizeable lead in ice dance should both teams skate well in the final discipline. I too thought D/W deserved to be scored higher in the sd, although I agree with V/M being ahead, but not by that much. Sure, the skaters have nothing to do with picking the judging panel, but I'm pretty sure Scott and Tessa (as well as all the teams) know the makeup of the judging panel.

FS is not only subjective, it is political. When rivals are as close in abilities as V/M and D/W, at any event it can go either way. We shall see what happens. To me, it is quite clear that V/M's fd is not overall as strong as D/W's, despite the improvements Scott and Tessa displayed at 4CC. Meryl and Charlie will need to relax, enjoy and be in the zone. Their program is so good. I hope if D/W skate their beautiful program to their best and don't win, that they will know in their hearts that they still won by achieving their best performance. I hope they will take possibly not winning gold in stride and come back even stronger next season to take their title back from V/M in Canada, no less. Yes, I know, not gonna happen on V/M's home turf. But Meryl and Charlie will never give up. They most certainly deserved to win 1st place in the sd at the 2010 Olympics. But they didn't let the judges get them down -- they kept pushing to improve. I like how Meryl and Charlie carry themselves when they don't come out on top. Contrast that with Scott's sulky attitude when he and Tessa didn't come out on top at GPF in Canada!

 

[colleen o'neill]

I won't argue the placements of the top 3 . As has been mentioned the margin between V/M and D/W is really quite small , but I do think P/B were marked too close to D/W ..I really felt they were closer to W/P..I/K were incredibly gifted and consequently C/L were royally robbed .

I guess I have some political theories.....but I have to go for groceries , so I'll just leave it at that...for now