Ice Diaries on TLC
- Thread starter childfreegirl
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I also did a double-take at what Carroll said, but then I realized that he was only talking about the particular Sectional in which Danielle was competing. He didn't say anything about Danielle being the best in America.flying camel said:
And regarding her skill at Sectionals, he was correct.
I really am enjoying this series, and Jenny giving Alissa advice was cute. It's nice to know what Jenny's up to, she seems so much happier and has such a good heart.
Danielle's warming up to me; I met her once at my rink and she was kind of stand offish. If Danielle gets those triples consistent and works on positions in spins and spirals and such I think she'll be a force to reckon with in the future. It's also pretty nifty to see my rink on TV (in the sessions with Danielle sometimes they show my rink as opposed to the rink in El Segundo). They make it look much nicer, especially brighter, when usually they only put on one set of lights!
Don'tcha love TV?
Bebe =
PS: CDMM, you can download the episodes on SkatingVids forum!
Danielle's warming up to me; I met her once at my rink and she was kind of stand offish. If Danielle gets those triples consistent and works on positions in spins and spirals and such I think she'll be a force to reckon with in the future. It's also pretty nifty to see my rink on TV (in the sessions with Danielle sometimes they show my rink as opposed to the rink in El Segundo). They make it look much nicer, especially brighter, when usually they only put on one set of lights!
Don'tcha love TV?Bebe =
PS: CDMM, you can download the episodes on SkatingVids forum!
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
I think Sandy needs to drop Tom as her coach. She needs to switch over to someone more like Bebe's coach, cause he's a total sweetheart, that doesn't have to be borderline abusive to get what he wants from his skaters.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
It seems like her training facility was perhaps not as ideal a situation as what some of the other girls have... it must be hard for her to support herself and take care of things like grocery shopping, cleaning her apt and deal with her skating. I'm not saying these tasks are hard (I managed to do them just fine for the period i was in college) but the other girls have a much bigger safety net by being closer to their famlies.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
Absolutely. Sandy has everything working against her at this point.
-She has a coach that isn't happy with her performance or her work ethic.
-She has no family to fall back on when she's getting down, which seems often.
-She made this big life change for her skating, and her season is over in October.
-She doesn't have the ideal body type for vaulting yourself into the air 100+ times a day.
Tom howeveryouspellhislastname is soooooo not what's right for her right now. She should move back home, take a few months off and spend time as a normal teenager with her family, and then decides if she misses skating enough to return to it.
Ken Congemi also seemed like a great coach to me. Of all the coaches on the show, if I had to pick one to be my personal coach, it would definitely be Ken, no matter how successful Frank is.
-She has a coach that isn't happy with her performance or her work ethic.
-She has no family to fall back on when she's getting down, which seems often.
-She made this big life change for her skating, and her season is over in October.
-She doesn't have the ideal body type for vaulting yourself into the air 100+ times a day.
Tom howeveryouspellhislastname is soooooo not what's right for her right now. She should move back home, take a few months off and spend time as a normal teenager with her family, and then decides if she misses skating enough to return to it.
Ken Congemi also seemed like a great coach to me. Of all the coaches on the show, if I had to pick one to be my personal coach, it would definitely be Ken, no matter how successful Frank is.
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Tom Zakrajsek is best-known for having coached Ann Patrice McDonough for many years, but his first successful "elite" skater was Ryan Bradley -- they both started out in St. Joseph, Missouri, and later relocated to the Broadmoor Skating Club in Colorado Springs at the same time, where they are based currently.
Zakrajsek was one of the busiest coaches at St. Louis Nationals. By my count, he coached or co-coached 1 senior man (Bradley), 1 junior lady (Flatt-won silver), 2 junior men (McCraw & Kanallakan-won silver at JGP Final), 1 junior pair (Davis/Miller), 2 novice men (Mroz-won silver and Corvasce), and 1 novice lady (A. Gilles).
Zakrajsek was one of the busiest coaches at St. Louis Nationals. By my count, he coached or co-coached 1 senior man (Bradley), 1 junior lady (Flatt-won silver), 2 junior men (McCraw & Kanallakan-won silver at JGP Final), 1 junior pair (Davis/Miller), 2 novice men (Mroz-won silver and Corvasce), and 1 novice lady (A. Gilles).
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Huh? Sandy's coach abusive? Where the heck did that come from?!
I realize reality TV is nothing more than editing, but the only impression I've gotten from Tom so far is that he is meekly tip-toeing around Sandy's problems because he doesn't know how to confront them directly, and/or is simply powerless to do so. If all of you are referring to her health problems with her back, Tom isn't forcing her to be out on the ice. Sandy does that to herself.
I'm not sure where you guys are coming from. I see a coach frustrated with a charge who won't work with him, and who just point blank ignores him (and also ignores her other female coach, I can't remember her name) when he wants to talk to her during training.
I realize reality TV is nothing more than editing, but the only impression I've gotten from Tom so far is that he is meekly tip-toeing around Sandy's problems because he doesn't know how to confront them directly, and/or is simply powerless to do so. If all of you are referring to her health problems with her back, Tom isn't forcing her to be out on the ice. Sandy does that to herself.
I'm not sure where you guys are coming from. I see a coach frustrated with a charge who won't work with him, and who just point blank ignores him (and also ignores her other female coach, I can't remember her name) when he wants to talk to her during training.
I see a few problems with this partnership - and it goes both ways. (these are MY personal opinions based on what I have seen on TV and my personal experiances as an upper-level skater (Novice and Junior).
Coach
1. Tom Z has a style that more stern and is not say, like Ken (BeBe's coach) or Robin Wagner. I'd say those coaches are more emotionally invested in their students - which depending on the relationship between student/coach, is not necessarily good or bad. (In Bebe and Sarah’s case, it appears to be a great thing). You could say that Ken and Robin are more mentors/cool-parent like coaches. A coach’s interpersonal skill with students is, in my opinion, more important to the success of the relationship than his/her previous successes.
Given this, I'm wondering if Sandy and her family were aware of his coaching style prior to pairing up with him. One would hope so, but given the circumstances.....
2. Tom appears to be frustrated with Sandy and her skating. He’s not certain how much of her attitude and poor skating is for lack of a better word, what you get from a spoiled teenager that needs a good talking to (i.e. a Bobek skater) or, if this how she really works – how she handles stress (and in this case, they need to find another solution to dealing with the stress/pressure/disappointment of her skating). In a way, I feel sorry for Tom b/c he’s trying to coach a gifted skater who is really struggling and he doesn’t know how to help her because the skater is not willing to accept help.
Sandy:
1. IMO, Sandy is spoiled has not really faced tough challenges like she is now, and does not know how to handle them. Instead of being mature about it and saying, “hey coach, I’ve never experienced “failure” like this so I’m not sure how to respond” she cops an attitude and is frankly, rather unpleasant.
2. Sandy is too young to be on her own. I disagree with skaters moving away from home until they are at least 18 (18 only because they are legally adults, but being a legal adult doesn’t mean that you can act like an adult). At least when mom or dad moves with the kid, the kid has some structure and support (although I don't like the family being broken up for one child's dream). I feel it was a horribly irresponsible decision for her family to allow her to leave – regardless of how good she was, how much promise she showed or how great the coach/facilities are.
3. Because of the new housing situation, injury and attitude issues with her coach, combined with absolutely no physical family support, Sandy’s immaturity is really showing and I would suspect, she is in need of some emotional support now – something she is not able to get from Tom because Tom appears not to be interested in playing therapist, counselor or girlfriend.
If Sandy could get healthy and the living situation was better, I think that Sandy and Tom could be a very good fit. Sandy strikes me as like Bobek in her hard-headedness. Tom seems like he doesn’t tolerate that kind of crap. He may be the only one who can “handle” Sandy in such a way that both get results. Sandy would then not be allowed to get away with this attitude with Tom, and Tom would be forced to refine his coaching techniques to train Sandy to harness and fulfill the talent she has.
As far as I’m concerned, the whole problem is that Sandy is spoiled and is not being held accountable for her actions or inactions which are further compounded by the fact her parents are a few hundred miles away and completly uninvolved with the day-to-day dealings.
Just my 2 or 3 cents.
Darby
Coach
1. Tom Z has a style that more stern and is not say, like Ken (BeBe's coach) or Robin Wagner. I'd say those coaches are more emotionally invested in their students - which depending on the relationship between student/coach, is not necessarily good or bad. (In Bebe and Sarah’s case, it appears to be a great thing). You could say that Ken and Robin are more mentors/cool-parent like coaches. A coach’s interpersonal skill with students is, in my opinion, more important to the success of the relationship than his/her previous successes.
Given this, I'm wondering if Sandy and her family were aware of his coaching style prior to pairing up with him. One would hope so, but given the circumstances.....
2. Tom appears to be frustrated with Sandy and her skating. He’s not certain how much of her attitude and poor skating is for lack of a better word, what you get from a spoiled teenager that needs a good talking to (i.e. a Bobek skater) or, if this how she really works – how she handles stress (and in this case, they need to find another solution to dealing with the stress/pressure/disappointment of her skating). In a way, I feel sorry for Tom b/c he’s trying to coach a gifted skater who is really struggling and he doesn’t know how to help her because the skater is not willing to accept help.
Sandy:
1. IMO, Sandy is spoiled has not really faced tough challenges like she is now, and does not know how to handle them. Instead of being mature about it and saying, “hey coach, I’ve never experienced “failure” like this so I’m not sure how to respond” she cops an attitude and is frankly, rather unpleasant.
2. Sandy is too young to be on her own. I disagree with skaters moving away from home until they are at least 18 (18 only because they are legally adults, but being a legal adult doesn’t mean that you can act like an adult). At least when mom or dad moves with the kid, the kid has some structure and support (although I don't like the family being broken up for one child's dream). I feel it was a horribly irresponsible decision for her family to allow her to leave – regardless of how good she was, how much promise she showed or how great the coach/facilities are.
3. Because of the new housing situation, injury and attitude issues with her coach, combined with absolutely no physical family support, Sandy’s immaturity is really showing and I would suspect, she is in need of some emotional support now – something she is not able to get from Tom because Tom appears not to be interested in playing therapist, counselor or girlfriend.
If Sandy could get healthy and the living situation was better, I think that Sandy and Tom could be a very good fit. Sandy strikes me as like Bobek in her hard-headedness. Tom seems like he doesn’t tolerate that kind of crap. He may be the only one who can “handle” Sandy in such a way that both get results. Sandy would then not be allowed to get away with this attitude with Tom, and Tom would be forced to refine his coaching techniques to train Sandy to harness and fulfill the talent she has.
As far as I’m concerned, the whole problem is that Sandy is spoiled and is not being held accountable for her actions or inactions which are further compounded by the fact her parents are a few hundred miles away and completly uninvolved with the day-to-day dealings.
Just my 2 or 3 cents.
Darby
Thanks for answering my question Sylvia. This makes me wonder about the situation even more. If he has so many skaters on the go at the same time it really makes me wonder why he puts up with Sandy. (He propably wouldn't go hungry if he got rid of her 
) He seems pretty fed up with their arrangement. I don't know why he doesn't just cut her loose if it's as bad as it seems. Regardless of where the blame for this dysfunctional relationship lies, they are making me unhappy just watching them!
dwiggin3, I found myself agreeing with a lot of your comments in regards to Sandy. I really don't think the coach is entirely to blame for the situation because of many of the things you have mentioned. All I know is that their relationship is painful to watch, but that is probably what fascinates me about this show and keeps me watching every week!
) He seems pretty fed up with their arrangement. I don't know why he doesn't just cut her loose if it's as bad as it seems. Regardless of where the blame for this dysfunctional relationship lies, they are making me unhappy just watching them! dwiggin3, I found myself agreeing with a lot of your comments in regards to Sandy. I really don't think the coach is entirely to blame for the situation because of many of the things you have mentioned. All I know is that their relationship is painful to watch, but that is probably what fascinates me about this show and keeps me watching every week!
Another thing I was thinking....I suspect that the whole Tom/Sandy struggle is such a perfect example of how it is that SO MANY very promising Novice and Junior skaters never can make the transition to Sr.'s. It's like there is a curse on you if you were a "star" in the Novice/Jr. rankings - you never can translate that sucess to the Sr.'s
Darby
Darby
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for the info on coach Tom, Sylvia. Dwiggin, great post.
I was interested to learn that Zakrejcek also coached Ann Patrice McDonough. AP was a wonderful talent who I always felt did not really enjoy stating very much at the elite level. It seemed to me that she was being pushed really hard by her mom and her coach, but her own heart was elsewhere.
There must be a lot of young skaters who have a great time at the beginning levels, but then as they progress through the ranks they reach a point at which it's just a lot of work and not so much fun any more.
I think Jenny Kirk reached the point a couple of years ago where she just didn't want to do it any more. Her last couple of seasons she seemed to be merely going through the motions, trying to psyche herself up by giving herself little pep talks along the way.
MM
I was interested to learn that Zakrejcek also coached Ann Patrice McDonough. AP was a wonderful talent who I always felt did not really enjoy stating very much at the elite level. It seemed to me that she was being pushed really hard by her mom and her coach, but her own heart was elsewhere.
There must be a lot of young skaters who have a great time at the beginning levels, but then as they progress through the ranks they reach a point at which it's just a lot of work and not so much fun any more.
I think Jenny Kirk reached the point a couple of years ago where she just didn't want to do it any more. Her last couple of seasons she seemed to be merely going through the motions, trying to psyche herself up by giving herself little pep talks along the way.
She does. Her face is much fuller than when she was in training (probably her body, too -- couldn't tell from the show). She seems perfectly content to be out of the pressure cooker.dfj said:
MM
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
Spirit said:
-He's a nag
-He was constantly barking at her about the next competition, like she didn't already know and wasn't stressed out enough.
-Without explaining what he was going to do, he justs starts latching this think around her neck. My reflex's would have kicked in if someone had done that to me.
-Another embarrassing thing. I know skaters use differents tools to help them correct things, but having to wear that band around her knees to help her jump, just looked silly, and she probably felt that way, too.
She needs to switch to Ken Congemi.imo
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Maybe so, but these examples would support the idea that he is, at worst, non-supportive, or just clueless about dealing with people, which is not the same thing as being abusive.CzarinaAnya said:
Abusive is a serious word which shouldn't be tossed around lightly, and emotional abuse should be used to describe coaches who make their athletes ashamed of themselves, such as convincing them that they're worthless or constantly shaming them about their appearance or who they are.
I saw Tom do nothing on the TV screen that even approached something which could be called abusive. Nagging someone doesn't qualify.
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