Of her skating, I meant, of course, since I asked of her videos, and this thread is about nostalgia for skating.
I'd guess not, since she stopped in 1939, in Nazi Germany.
That video you linked, by the way, is a Charlotte Stop. And a great one, too.
Is nostalgia shaping how we view figure skating?
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I'd guess not, since she stopped in 1939, in Nazi Germany.
That video you linked, by the way, is a Charlotte Stop. And a great one, too.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Charlotte Oelschlagel has one of the two most intriguing names in figure skating. Oel-schlagel (oil beater) is an occupation name referring to a person who extracts oils from nuts and seeds.
My other fave is Armin Mahbanoozadeh -- "Son of the Persian (Zoroastrian) goddess of the moon (Mah)."
My other fave is Armin Mahbanoozadeh -- "Son of the Persian (Zoroastrian) goddess of the moon (Mah)."
Mah is the name.My other fave is Armin Mahbanoozadeh -- "Son of the Persian (Zoroastrian) goddess of the moon (Mah)."
Mah Banoo would be "Lady Mah". Zadeh is "son".
So yeah, "Son of Lady Mah".
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Oh, me, too.
Not too long ago, we had a debate about the types of programs we dislike the most. I had always had Sherlock Holmes programs at the top of my list. But I admit to being swayed by the Chaplin-program-haters. "Look at me pretend to smoke a pipe and peer through a pretend magnifying glass" vs "Look at me twirling my pretend cane and pretending to stumble." It's a very tough call, and reasonable people can disagree about which is the worst.
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- Jun 21, 2003
My guiding principal is, "What does it have to do with ice skating or ice?" At least we cn say that Charlie Chaplin's shtick -- stumbling awkwardly around pretending almost to fall -- is right in the heart of show skating comedy routines. Chaplin himself did a famous roller skating segment in character.
I guess this is also why I am not as thrilled with jumping as I should be. A person can jump higher, farther, and more acrobatically and esthetically on land. Why ice?
I don't like to be too narrow minded about these things, though. A critic could argue that the historical/legendary hero Abe no Seimei had nothing to do with ice or with skating. Yet Yuzuru Hanyu wove music on this theme into a towering masterpiece of choreography and performance.
I also have no problem with Julia Lipnitskia's take on Shidler's List. The red coat was an appropriate and unobtrusive reminder of the theme and she interpreted the music well.
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- Apr 23, 2018
To be fair, some skaters can do breathtakingly beautiful jumps from singles (delayed axels. I will die on this hill) to quads. But not many - not even those scored at the top for their jumps' efficiency and technical impressiveness - are that. And again to be fair, the rules don't say they don't have to be.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Jumping is fine in a skating performance. I just don't quite appreciate this aspect of skating "as much as I ought to" -- that is, as much as the IJS tells me I ought to.
In the posted clip, what was really satisfying to me was the energetic (if relatively simple by today's standards) footwork sequence climaxed by a stag jump into a spread eagle and two lovely spins, again simple by CoP criteria, at the finale. By the way, some vids of that program show the ending pose shot from behind the skater. As she raises her arms in the closing pose, the audience rises as one as if she is the maestro directing the orchestra to stand.
One funny thing is that Michelle got out-jumped at this event 7 triples to 6 by Elena Sokolova, and Sokolova received a first place ordinal from one of the judges.for her effort despite Kwan's mature masterpiece. (In fairness, it was Sokolova's finest performance, too.)
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
No, it's the era you fell in love with the sport. I'm convinced of this now.
Evidence: When this American fell in love with figure skating, an American, a Brit, and two Soviet duos topped the podium at the Olympics. They are all legends, and nationality has nothing to do with this.
Some of us, and I regret that number is not as large as it should be, love the sport and don't act like we're vassals of the state in our blind sycophancy.
Edit: If you take that as a personal attack, it is not. Although I can understand why you might think so.
For myself:
I first fell in love with skating in the 1970s, more as a participant than a fan though I did watch on TV
Took a break and didn't follow except 1984 and 88 Olympics; came back in the early 1990s first as a casual fan, then as an adult skater and more serious fan
Made an effort to collect videos (including older ones to catch up on what I missed while I was away) and joined discussion groups online, and also started attending live events
So I came to know specific 1990s/early 2000s competitions and programs very well thanks to the ability and motivation to rewatch the same performances/events over and over again.
In the IJS era, there are so many more competitions available to watch online, so I don't feel the need to keep rewatching the same performances
I have favorite skaters and favorite performances from all these eras, but I like to look at the big picture of trends and innovations, and also to appreciate a wide variety of approaches to the sport.
As a fan I always preferred performances with complex use of blade-to-ice skills to express music, tell a story, etc. And I think there is more of that in more recent programs than there was in earlier eras, so I don't feel that my favorites from earlier eras were "better" than today's favorites -- just that they would likely have fit in well in today's rules as well, if called on to do so
I first fell in love with skating in the 1970s, more as a participant than a fan though I did watch on TV
Took a break and didn't follow except 1984 and 88 Olympics; came back in the early 1990s first as a casual fan, then as an adult skater and more serious fan
Made an effort to collect videos (including older ones to catch up on what I missed while I was away) and joined discussion groups online, and also started attending live events
So I came to know specific 1990s/early 2000s competitions and programs very well thanks to the ability and motivation to rewatch the same performances/events over and over again.
In the IJS era, there are so many more competitions available to watch online, so I don't feel the need to keep rewatching the same performances
I have favorite skaters and favorite performances from all these eras, but I like to look at the big picture of trends and innovations, and also to appreciate a wide variety of approaches to the sport.
As a fan I always preferred performances with complex use of blade-to-ice skills to express music, tell a story, etc. And I think there is more of that in more recent programs than there was in earlier eras, so I don't feel that my favorites from earlier eras were "better" than today's favorites -- just that they would likely have fit in well in today's rules as well, if called on to do so
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- Oct 25, 2012
I started dipping into Ladies Singles skating around 2001, and from there I gradually started to get interested in the other categories. But, it took until 2010 for me to follow all the categories (Ice Dance was last).
Consequently, my favourite period in figure skating is from 2010 to 2020. As you may have noticed from the programmes I was choosing for the "Fun Exhibition skates!" thread, it is the 2010 to 2014 Quad that I am most nostalgic for.
For me, figure skating hasn't been the same since the pandemic hit. Maybe it is because I am getting older, but the programmes nowadays just don't stick in my mind the same way that the programmes from the previous decade did. Also, the skaters at the top of the sport nowadays just aren't grabbing me like the skaters 10 years ago did.
The effects of this can be seen in my attitude towards the Senior GP Series. Before the pandemic, I wouldn't have missed any of the rounds, because I liked the style of skating then, and there were so many skaters I liked competing. But in recent years, I haven't been bothered about whether I see them or now.
Now, it is mainly my support for skaters from Small Feds that is keeping me interested.
CaroLiza_fan
Consequently, my favourite period in figure skating is from 2010 to 2020. As you may have noticed from the programmes I was choosing for the "Fun Exhibition skates!" thread, it is the 2010 to 2014 Quad that I am most nostalgic for.
For me, figure skating hasn't been the same since the pandemic hit. Maybe it is because I am getting older, but the programmes nowadays just don't stick in my mind the same way that the programmes from the previous decade did. Also, the skaters at the top of the sport nowadays just aren't grabbing me like the skaters 10 years ago did.
The effects of this can be seen in my attitude towards the Senior GP Series. Before the pandemic, I wouldn't have missed any of the rounds, because I liked the style of skating then, and there were so many skaters I liked competing. But in recent years, I haven't been bothered about whether I see them or now.
Now, it is mainly my support for skaters from Small Feds that is keeping me interested.
CaroLiza_fan
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2020
TBH while it is not necessarily true for any individual fan, it is hard to deny that in sports in general nationality does matter for who people root for. It is by no means the only factor, and there are great great stars, whether individual or teams, that enjoy popular international support well beyond any national borders. Still people do tend to root for "their own", too, whether exclusively or "on the side", rejoice in their wins and praise them, or defend them, in the public space. And having a great champion or two, while alone not necessarily enough, still usually does help to make a sport (more) popular with the media and the public. Sometimes it is even hard to tell if people are fans of the given athlete, the given sport , or simply of the thrill of winning which they share by sharing the same passport and flag. This would obviously result in some popular nostalgia after the times when "we" were great and "we" kept winning, just like it is the case in other sports. Again, while it may vary in any individual case, I do not see why in general it would be any different with figure skating.
And then there is a large enough group of those coming from a country that was never big in this particular sport, so feeling free to choose their heroes as they like, and I am one of them as long as FS goes.
And having spent some time in this forum I could not support a claim that posters here in general are somehow free from such a "sport fan patriotism". Again, while not true for everyone, many Canadians here root fiercely for Canadian skaters, Americans for US skaters, Russians for Russian skaters, and so on - and it's hard not to notice the matching nationalities between some fans and their idols, and hard to dismiss them as pure coincidence. That's just the way it goes and there is nothing wrong with it, it is quite natural to certain extent as long as it does not result in an unequal treatment and there is no denial, no pretence and pose that sharing the same nationality does not matter here at all, that everyone is being totally objective towards their compatriots and their rivals, and no national bias ever takes place here which is just an unrealistic claim BTW and the point where it gets annoying, at least for me.
If anyone takes it as a personal attack, it is not. Although I can understand why some people might think so.
And then there is a large enough group of those coming from a country that was never big in this particular sport, so feeling free to choose their heroes as they like, and I am one of them as long as FS goes.
And having spent some time in this forum I could not support a claim that posters here in general are somehow free from such a "sport fan patriotism". Again, while not true for everyone, many Canadians here root fiercely for Canadian skaters, Americans for US skaters, Russians for Russian skaters, and so on - and it's hard not to notice the matching nationalities between some fans and their idols, and hard to dismiss them as pure coincidence. That's just the way it goes and there is nothing wrong with it, it is quite natural to certain extent as long as it does not result in an unequal treatment and there is no denial, no pretence and pose that sharing the same nationality does not matter here at all, that everyone is being totally objective towards their compatriots and their rivals, and no national bias ever takes place here which is just an unrealistic claim BTW and the point where it gets annoying, at least for me.
If anyone takes it as a personal attack, it is not. Although I can understand why some people might think so.
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- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
Not. Everyone.
Were it a rule, I would be hunting for the year all the ice melted and they had to swim their way to victory (though to be honest watching swimming etc bores me to tears, I feel vaguely unpatriotic.)Apart from that obvious caveat. it's normal to have a leaning towards one's own country doing well in anything (look at Eurovision, or the way countries follow their own teams in, well, everything.) But a solo sport means that a charismatic breakout star can bring fans from all over the world, and their time is the one most fondly recalled.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
For my friend @Magill, I admit you have a good point about a non-nationalistic view of the sport.
I do keep up with American skaters more in terms of following their exploits. I suppose that's natural because I'm simply more exposed to them. As you say, nothing wrong with that. I do my very best not to let that familiarity slide into analysis of what is happening on the ice at whatever event is ongoing. And I admire many, many skaters who are not American - past and present. And there are many, many American skaters I do not enjoy.
Perhaps a more non-nationalistic view of skating comes with age and experience. It's probably pretty common that a person becomes a new fan because of the success of a skater from their country. And to those fans, I say "Welcome!" But I also say, learn to appreciate the sport and evaluate all the skaters and their best qualities, and favor them on their merits, not on their flag.
I do keep up with American skaters more in terms of following their exploits. I suppose that's natural because I'm simply more exposed to them. As you say, nothing wrong with that. I do my very best not to let that familiarity slide into analysis of what is happening on the ice at whatever event is ongoing. And I admire many, many skaters who are not American - past and present. And there are many, many American skaters I do not enjoy.
Perhaps a more non-nationalistic view of skating comes with age and experience. It's probably pretty common that a person becomes a new fan because of the success of a skater from their country. And to those fans, I say "Welcome!" But I also say, learn to appreciate the sport and evaluate all the skaters and their best qualities, and favor them on their merits, not on their flag.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Indeed. But here are some rising ballerinos practicing their double tours en l'air (-1 deduction for the fall.)
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And here the Axel -- sort of
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- Dec 9, 2019
It's about four weeks ahead of time and you may not be as impressed as a Physicist would be...Indeed. But here are some rising ballerinos practicing their double tours en l'air (-1 deduction for the fall.)
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
And here the Axel -- sort of
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
And...
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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Overall I wonder if this isn't what has kept me into Ballet until a few years ago (or rather, part of it). I would say, now ice and skates have been tamed as they've never been and Figure Skating definitely has its place (and Ballet Production is overall in a bad place).
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- Jun 21, 2003
^ You know, I have to say that my attraction to both ballet and figure skating is not primarily related to the feats of vigorous athletic leaping. What intrigues me more is the basics. I marvel at the posture and carriage of the ballet dancers and how it augments the basic movement.
My favorite part of the first video above is the series of pirouettes that the lady does across the stage starting at 0.55. Speaking of nostalgia, I am reminded of old clips of Ondrej Nepela just doing a series of three-turns all around the rink. Very satisfying, to me.
My favorite part of the first video above is the series of pirouettes that the lady does across the stage starting at 0.55. Speaking of nostalgia, I am reminded of old clips of Ondrej Nepela just doing a series of three-turns all around the rink. Very satisfying, to me.
They're not flowing across the stage, nor can they...
I see it differently. To me, the best part about ballet is using all the movement available to them for the sake of story telling.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I agree. Moving across the ice is the main thing. That's the glory of figure skating -- using your blades to move swiftly and gracefully across an almost frictional surface. This is what no other sport/art form can offer.
I guess I'm just not a story-telling sort of guy. For me, reading a book is more satisfying. Plus, the "stories" told by most ballets are pretty silly. An evil magician transform some ladies into swans. OK.
A toy Nutcracker comes to life.
Same with Opera. One waggish critic famously offered this definition of operetta: An operetta is a musical production whose plot is not quite silly enough for it to be called an opera. For me, what matters is the singing. In ballet, as in figure skating, it is the demonstration of mastery of the appropriate skills. Musical compositions? It sounds good.
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