Is Rachael Flatt the (emotional) underdog?

[Dee4707]

I think maybe we don't get emotionally involved because Racheal dosen't. She said she was mad after the SP at nationals being in third but we didn't see it. She was happy after the freeskate, but she didn't cry, or scream like Tara or anything like that. She is always happy, upbeat but never seems nervous or pressured or worried.

Rachael is mature!!! Rachael is classy!!! Rachael is smart!!! Rachael did the best she could in her LP. Those are some of the reasons I like her and will be cheering for her at the Olympics.

 

[Nigel]

On Judy's Ice Cream Stand, he argued that it was Rachael's parents that want this mentioned every single time. If you look at the press conference, I think the press is actually a bit bored by it. This is no offense to Rachael its awesome she's such a good student, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be mentioned. But since its been mentioned over and over and over again, it would be nice if something else was focused on.

It's the media who continually brings up Rachael's academics, which IMHO, shows how shallow the media can be. Don't they do THEIR homework? Like all the skaters, I am sure Flatt is multi-faceted, but does the media take the time to pursue other aspects of her personality? They sort of get caught in a rut and go on and on...easier to do that than to take the time to actually do their jobs. LOL! Aunt Joyce's Ice Cream stand has no clue about Flatt's family....he has never met them. What he conjectures is purely his opinion. Pure speculation.

 

[Mrs. P]

All of these girls are pretty darn successful even if they struggle a bit. The thing is I doubt Rachael is the only skater who is a good student. I really think the main thing is that people might want to see more of Rachael's personality. She seems to be a cute girl/very bubbly. But instead of showing the viewers this side of her personality, they instead insist on talking about her school/Ap classes-all the time.

And I think this comes back to what team Flatt needs to do to show that personality. It sounds like at one time Rachael was well-regarded in that manner but somehow lost it on the way.

I believe that over time she'll be able to show it.

 

[Mrs. P]

I dunno. For me at least, this thas zero to do with why I questioned Mirai's second place finish. I liked Aunt Joyce's story but I kinda thought the bit about Rachael's AP classes was the weakest point in it. Rachael shouldn't try to pretend she's someone else, especially since the person that she is is obviously pretty great.

Maybe not for you, but I get that sense from others, especially as I read people's other posts in this thread.
I think Rachael is pretty awesome and will be rooting with her at the Olympics, no doubt about that. This thread for me was just a philosophical discussion about something that seem to prevail in a lot of the discussions out there.
And of course I wouldn't want her to be someone she's not, but as other said and I agree with, she would definitely benefit from showing other aspects of her personality.

 

[Jaana]

There's a clear (and I will agree, huge) contingent that sees her as nothing more than a COP skater who didn't deserve the national title.

I think that to be successful today a skater needs to be a COP skater = to have a choreography to gather as much points as possible. In the same way e.g. Yuna-Kim is a COP-skater, but she also manages to add plenty of charm into her performances. That does not apply to Rachael Flatt, in my opinion.

 

[Mrs. P]

It's the media who continually brings up Rachael's academics, which IMHO, shows how shallow the media can be. Don't they do THEIR homework? Like all the skaters, I am sure Flatt is multi-faceted, but does the media take the time to pursue other aspects of her personality? They sort of get caught in a rut and go on and on...easier to do that than to take the time to actually do their jobs. LOL! Aunt Joyce's Ice Cream stand has no clue about Flatt's family....he has never met them. What he conjectures is purely his opinion. Pure speculation.

Sorry, but Aunt Joyce is a HE? Hm....well that explains a lot.

Good points though to consider in this whole discussion. The skating writers seem to thrive on controversy. Tonya vs. Nancy, Skategate 2002 and so on.

You could get into a whole discussion about how skating media differs from the media in other sports....but I won't here.

 

[Layfan]

And I think this comes back to what team Flatt needs to do to show that personality. It sounds like at one time Rachael was well-regarded in that manner but somehow lost it on the way.

I believe that over time she'll be able to show it.

I don't think Rachael or her team needs to be listening to what Aunt Joyce has to say about her AP classes, which I thought was silly.
Rachael needs to be herself off the ice and she does not at all come across badly. The worst thing Rachael could do right now is to go on some bizarre PR blitz to prove that she's bubbly or whatever.
The criticism most people have of Rachael is of her SKATING. As far as I can tell, it's mostly people who defend Rachael's victory who have brought up her AP classes as if to suggest that this is real reason behind the crticism of ther skating.

 

[bekalc]

I don't think Rachael or her team needs to be listening to what Aunt Joyce has to say about her AP classes, which I thought was silly.
Rachael needs to be herself off the ice and she does not at all come across badly. The worst thing Rachael could do right now is to go on some bizarre PR blitz to prove that she's bubbly or whatever.
The criticism most people have of Rachael is of her SKATING. As far as I can tell, it's mostly people who defend Rachael's victory who have brought up her AP classes as if to suggest that this is real reason behind the crticism of ther skating.

Its not that Rachael can't be herself or can't ever mention that she's a student. Its just that I'm sure there's more to Rachael than her studies and her skating. Why not show that? That's the point, I'm making. I mean Sarah Hughes was clearly a good student but they showed her doing things like playing her violin etc, hanging out with her family. They could do that with Rachael. Heck maybe even showing Rachael in school talking with people would be better.
I mean seriously instead of saying Rachael is in four AP classes they could talk about what Rachael's favorite class is and why is it Rachael's favorite class. That would make Rachael more relatable than she's in four AP classes. What does Rachael want to study in school and why? That would allow people to get to know Rachael a bit better than just she's in Four AP classes can do.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't think Rachael or her team needs to be listening to what Aunt Joyce has to say about her AP classes, which I thought was silly.
Rachael needs to be herself off the ice and she does not at all come across badly. The worst thing Rachael could do right now is to go on some bizarre PR blitz to prove that she's bubbly or whatever.
The criticism most people have of Rachael is of her SKATING. As far as I can tell, it's mostly people who defend Rachael's victory who have brought up her AP classes as if to suggest that this is real reason behind the crticism of ther skating.

But there's been a deep discussion here about artistry vs. athleticism in being a good skater or putting out a good skating program. And artistry, I believe, comes from an emotional connection a showing of the personality.

Again, I don't think Rachael should be something she's not or to do some contrived PR campaign, but the question is whether that personality aspect of skating affects her.

And yes what Aunt Joyce says is his opinion, of course, and I'm not saying that Rachael should go and change because of it, but I think his underlying thought is pointing to this intangible thing that a lot of people believe Rachael doesn't have.

 

[Layfan]

Maybe not for you, but I get that sense from others, especially as I read people's other posts in this thread.
I think Rachael is pretty awesome and will be rooting with her at the Olympics, no doubt about that. This thread for me was just a philosophical discussion about something that seem to prevail in a lot of the discussions out there.
And of course I wouldn't want her to be someone she's not, but as other said and I agree with, she would definitely benefit from showing other aspects of her personality.

Well, maybe you're right. But there's nothing Rachael can do if people have a problem with her being an awesome student. I don't know, there's just something about the idea of trying to show other aspects of your personality that sounds forced and a recipe for disaster.

Rachael needs to concentrate on doing well on the Olympics. I really would advise her not to worry about whether some people have a problem with her personality.

But there's been a deep discussion here about artistry vs. athleticism in being a good skater or putting out a good skating program. And artistry, I believe, comes from an emotional connection a showing of the personality.

Again, I don't think Rachael should be something she's not or to do some contrived PR campaign, but the question is whether that personality aspect of skating affects her.

And yes what Aunt Joyce says is his opinion, of course, and I'm not saying that Rachael should go and change because of it, but I think his underlying thought is pointing to this intangible thing that a lot of people believe Rachael doesn't have.

I see what you are getting at. But I think Rachael actually does interpret her music and does show personality on the ice. I think she's likable off the of ice. Maybe some people don't but I don't think that trying to win them over will really do much to improve her skating. My first impressions of Rachael's skating came before I knew anything about her personally. Those impressions haven't changed much except I do think her choreaography has vastly improved this year. And her speed has improved too. And her spirals, which still aren't stellar but are better than last year.

 

[bekalc]

Well, maybe you're right. But there's nothing Rachael can do if people have a problem with her being an awesome student. I don't know, there's just something about the idea of trying to show other aspects of your personality that sounds forced and a recipe for disaster.

Rachael needs to concentrate on doing well on the Olympics. I really would advise her not to worry about whether some people have a problem with her personality.

Nobody has a problem with Rachael being an awesome student. People are just tired of it being the only thing that is ever mentioned about her. I mean its like okay thats awesome and? I mean that's all that is ever mentioned about Rachael. I'm sure there are other good things about Rachael that could be mentioned. Thats the point Aunt Joyce is making. Its not Rachael be someone different. Its not Rachael don't mention your a good student. It's why not show more of Rachael's personality. Instead. Its the public has already heard about Rachael's AP classes and maybe they'd like to learn more about the other aspects of Rachael's personality.

 

[DesertRoad]

In my ideal world, a skater would get negative GOE and downgrades on all applicable elements for not being able to stand up straight. In this world, Rachael would either dramatically improve her posture, or never score over 100.

 

[Nigel]

Well, in 2007, Alissa had 49.43 and placed 18th in the short. In 2009, she had 53.28 and placed 14th in the short. 2007 was also her first Worlds. If she had had a third skater, she might have done better. In 2007, she beat Emily in the free. Emily almost lost the three spots then. She's lucky she squeaked by Joannie. I just hate to see all the blame placed on Alissa.

Why not hold Alissa at least partially responsible? Why excuse 2007 (her first Worlds) as a reason? Flatt's first Worlds was last season (2009) and she finished fifth.

This is a cumulative effect in reality. Weak placements (weak performances) from three skaters in 2008 gave US only 2 slots in 2009.
Flatt did her job in 2009. Three skaters from 2008 and one skater in 2009, cumulatively, are responsible, imo.
Moving forward, hopefully Flatt and Nagasu can regain three slots.
Endless debate is just that. Endless!

 

[Nigel]

I think that to be successful today a skater needs to be a COP skater = to have a choreography to gather as much points as possible. In the same way e.g. Yuna-Kim is a COP-skater, but she also manages to add plenty of charm into her performances. That does not apply to Rachael Flatt, in my opinion.

Funny that you would bring up Yuna. Both her SP and LP are very COP friendly.

SA is a good example of Yuna bringing her "personality" to the ice in the SP. She was very self assured and the SP performance showed that.

The LP was another story. Very COP friendly, but the actual peformance, once Yuna began making mistakes, was a step down from TEB, and became less performance, more element to element, until about 3/4's way through the program. The magic wasn't quite there as in TEB.

I suspect Flatt was feeling the pressure in Spokane to qualify for Vancouver, as her performance at SA in the LP was just that..... A good performance. And, I suspect, she will ramp up the performance in Vancouver. Nothing to loose, everything to gain. And, the spotlights will be on other skaters no doubt!

 

[Nigel]

Sorry, but Aunt Joyce is a HE? Hm....well that explains a lot.

Good points though to consider in this whole discussion. The skating writers seem to thrive on controversy. Tonya vs. Nancy, Skategate 2002 and so on.

You could get into a whole discussion about how skating media differs from the media in other sports....but I won't here.

Yup, Aunt Joyce is a guy who follows gymnastics and figure skating. His tag line on Twitter is: " I'm said to be a bit snarky". an understatment! LOL!

 

[R.D.]

Maybe someone should suggest botox for the girl. Her face is absolutely terrifying on HD closeup.

You asked for an HD closeup?

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8553/flattcap.jpg

 

[yunasashafan]

So yes the USFSA judges inflating Alissa's scores cost us our best shot at earning 3 spots. A way better shot than we had last year too. I don't know how any reasonable person could argue differently. And to blame Meissner when she was clearly struggling that year and had also been instrumental in getting us 3 spots for 2 years previously is more than a bit much. And besides Meissner's showing at Worlds that year combined with Flatt's would have done it.

:agree: don't forget that Meissner, while possibly having her worst season so far, placed highest (7th) at Worlds 2008. Had Ashley or Bebe, while supposedly having better showings, beaten her like they did at nationals we would have been set.

 

[R.D.]

Meissner also fell twice in that free skate...

 

[FlattFan]

You asked for an HD closeup?

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8553/flattcap.jpg

Isn't she lovely?

That's about as much emotion you can get out of Rachael Flatt. She's always calm, always level-headed. Maybe that's how she maintains her consistency. Nothing fazes her.

 

[Mrs. P]

Yup, Aunt Joyce is a guy who follows gymnastics and figure skating. His tag line on Twitter is: " I'm said to be a bit snarky". an understatment! LOL!

I love it! He is my favorite commentator on skating by far, even if I don't always agree. I like how he adopts random skaters like Christina Gao.