ISU announces Selection Criteria for JGPF

[SnowWhite]

@SnowWhite You woke up early!

I decided I couldn't miss the Finlandia rhythm dance. I checked the junior results right away and put them into my spreadsheet.

 

[lariko]

I decided I couldn't miss the Finlandia rhythm dance. I checked the junior results right away and put them into my spreadsheet.

Thank you!

I wasn’t watching ID that closely, but with Browns coming second, and Ling/Wein 5th, I think it might actually be pretty much be the same result in all 3 takes on it.

Edit: okay, Ling/Wein still beat B&B in combined, but gosh, they were on fire today save for that unfortunate fall.

Also, yes, eerie similar to men! A swap, but the athletes who made it were better head to head 😅

 

[SnowWhite]

JR Pairs

The actual qualifiers:

Mukhortova/Evgeniev

Chikmareva/Ianchenkov

Khabibullina/Knyazhuk

Petushkova/Malikov or Safina/Berulava

Which team is 4th depends on whether the ISU meant best score of a (not already qualified) medalist, or best score with a silver medal (from the event where they placed 2nd). S/B have the first one, P/M have the 2nd one. 1st alternate will be whichever isn't 4th.

Combined scores:

Khabibullina/Knyazhuk	183.87	188.84	372.71
Chikmareva/Ianchenkov	189.11	171.97	361.08
Mukhortova/Evgeniev	171.99	183.64	355.63
Safina/Berulava	168.26	179.27	347.53
Petushkova/Malikov	170.46	169.8	340.26
Storublevtceva/Gritsaenko	168.13	163.04	331.17

Placements:

Chikmareva/Ianchenkov	15	15	30
Khabibullina/Knyazhuk	13	15	28
Mukhortova/Evgeniev	15	13	28
Safina/Berulava	13	11	24
Petushkova/Malikov	11	13	24
Kostiukovich/Briukhanov	11	11	22

 

[lariko]

JR Pairs

The actual qualifiers:

Mukhortova/Evgeniev

Chikmareva/Ianchenkov

Khabibullina/Knyazhuk

Petushkova/Malikov or Safina/Berulava

Which team is 4th depends on whether the ISU meant best score of a (not already qualified) medalist, or best score with a silver medal (from the event where they placed 2nd). S/B have the first one, P/M have the 2nd one. 1st alternate will be whichever isn't 4th.

Combined scores:

Khabibullina/Knyazhuk	183.87	188.84	372.71
Chikmareva/Ianchenkov	189.11	171.97	361.08
Mukhortova/Evgeniev	171.99	183.64	355.63
Safina/Berulava	168.26	179.27	347.53
Petushkova/Malikov	170.46	169.8	340.26
Storublevtceva/Gritsaenko	168.13	163.04	331.17

Placements:

Chikmareva/Ianchenkov	15	15	30
Khabibullina/Knyazhuk	13	15	28
Mukhortova/Evgeniev	15	13	28
Safina/Berulava	13	11	24
Petushkova/Malikov	11	13	24
Kostiukovich/Briukhanov	11	11	22

Wow, in case of Safina-Berulava’s total being accepted it will be the same in pairs for all 3 methods, though, of course, 2 spots were lost for no fault of their own!

 

[SnowWhite]

Jr Ladies

Actual results:

Lindsay Thorngren

Isabeau Levito

Veronika Zhilina

Sofia Akatieva

Adelia Petrosian

Sofia Muravieva

Combined scores:

Sofia Akatieva	233.08	225.64	458.72
Sofia Muravieva	208.25	211.81	420.06
Adelia Petrosyan	201.21	210.57	411.78
Isabeau Levito	202.35	208.31	410.66
Sofia Samodelkina	202.39	205.67	408.06
Anastasia Zinina	206.2	190.66	396.86

Alternates would be Elizaveta Kulikova (1), Chaeyeon Kim (2), Lindsay Thorngren (3)

Placements:

Sofia Akatieva	15	15	30
Sofia Muravieva	13	15	28
Isabeau Levito	15	13	28
Adelia Petrosyan	11	15	26
Lindsay Thorngren	15	11	26
Sofia Samodelkina	11	13	24

Anastasia Zinina would be 1st alternate, then Kaiya Ruiter, then Kulikova

For women, the results from the different methods are more different than the other disciplines, because Zhilina gets in with one event, which isn't normally a thing, and didn't happen in men/pairs/dance.

 

[Colonel Green]

So if Zhilina (or anyone else) has to withdraw, Zinina is the first alternate.

 

[nussnacker]

So if Zhilina (or anyone else) has to withdraw, Zinina is the first alternate.

Did they officially announce that it’s the best single score, not a total one? A weird decision, but ok…

 

[Colonel Green]

Did they officially announce that it’s the best single score, not a total one? A weird decision, but ok…

Ted said as much on the broadcast.

And really, it does kind of make sense; if the gold medalists get in on the basis of one event, arguably looking at both events for the rest is subjecting them to a higher standard.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

See, now that we have comparisons, here is where I go "the best system is who I wanted to see"

Now that the ISU JGP youtube channel has finally reached 100k subscribers, wouldn't it be time to decide the selection of participants in the JGP final by fan poll?

 

[Skatesocs]

So no one knows if Safina/Berulava made the JGPF?

ETA: @SnowWhite AnythingGOEs seems to be pretty clear they didn't make it: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1446811406809059330

Not an official source of course. Wonder if I just missed an official tweet from the ISU?

 

[GretchenG]

The problem is that the judging panels are different for each competition, and a skater could get an advantage if they are on home ice. I never really liked total scores to determine tie breakers because competitions vary in their nature.

I'm not sure what you mean by "vary in their nature". Are you just talking about the fact that they're different competitors and a different judging panel? Anyway, all of the countries that host a GP place their top skaters at home. It's an imperfect system, and I'm tired of judges being caught cheating, put on suspension for six months, and then being invited back. And fans have their opinions, where some people think a skater was unfairly judged and others don't. So what are we going to do?

 

[GretchenG]

And how giving a placement is different excuse-moi? Actually, by basing your rules on a placement you are throwing away much more variables connected with the skating performances. Whatever placement you want to give to some individual skaters who earned in one competition scores 194, 195 and 196, their numbers are just a product of a mathematical system ISU is working with. In 'objective system' all of those 3 numbers are basically the same if you use statistical probability of the errors system is working with. So, in those situations to claim how 196 is 1st, 195 is 2nd and 194 is 3rd doesn't have sense at all, because that kind of a difference is more likely product of the system itself than skaters performances. It's more reliable to just add more numbers (when you have it) and then make a difference, because by adding more numbers there is more probability to make a better difference between the skaters performances (after 3 competitions one of those skaters will have total score of 400, the second one 390 and the third one 380, so the difference will be statistically more reliable).

What I think would be even better is for judges to actually rule specifically on each category under PCS. There are times when a really good skater has a really bad performance, but as it is now they just rank them similarly to all of the other categories. It would be better (and more specific and useful) for judges to give that skater, say, a 9.50 for skating skills, and maybe a 7.50 for a poor performance. Or vice-versa, a category someone like Ashley Wagner would fit into. I've heard some people say that there should be a whole separate judging panel for PCS. Maybe that would help. I don't have a problem with adding more GP competitions, but you're looking at money spent, time used, etc.

 

[GretchenG]

Thank you!

I wasn’t watching ID that closely, but with Browns coming second, and Ling/Wein 5th, I think it might actually be pretty much be the same result in all 3 takes on it.

Edit: okay, Ling/Wein still beat B&B in combined, but gosh, they were on fire today save for that unfortunate fall.

Also, yes, eerie similar to men! A swap, but the athletes who made it were better head to head 😅

I got excited when I saw Ling/Wein's 160 score, but after watching them in Austria, I kind of think it's a fluke. I'm normally not super fond of the Browns, because I think sometimes they're just too aggressive. I really liked their free skate today, though. As you say, they were on fire.

 

[lariko]

So no one knows if Safina/Berulava made the JGPF?

ETA: @SnowWhite AnythingGOEs seems to be pretty clear they didn't make it: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1446811406809059330

Not an official source of course. Wonder if I just missed an official tweet from the ISU?

I sent email to Barton as soon as they stopped skating, hoping he would bring it up during the breaks in women’s competition, but he didn’t. 🤔 Gosh, can they just let in 5 pairs? Argh.

 

[GretchenG]

So if Zhilina (or anyone else) has to withdraw, Zinina is the first alternate.

I'm pretty sure Zhilina won't qualify for the final because she only skated one competition. If they only have to skate once because they win it, then Isabeau could have just stayed home instead of showing up at Austria. It's really going to bug me if they let Zhilina in, if she has recovered her injury, that is. Zinina is already in, based on the fact that she has the highest second-place score. If you exclude Zhilina, there are five winners. So the next girl who qualifies is the one with the top second-place score, which is Zinina. If the first alternate is going to be the top third place score, then it will be Samodelkina. She also has the second highest second-place finish. I really just want to punch the person that came up with this formula.

 

[Mawwerg]

I think it was the strongest JGP season in ladies and I hope ISU will do something to ensure this generation will not be lost.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I'm pretty sure Zhilina won't qualify for the final because she only skated one competition. If they only have to skate once because they win it, then Isabeau could have just stayed home instead of showing up at Austria.

No you only had to win one, but they made the announcement so late (literally a day or two before Linz) that it was kind of too late for anyone to withdraw and be replaced.

To be honest, the backlash has been so negative I almost hope Nika doesn't skate, everyone seems really annoyed about it and I feel like it might colour people's perceptions of her. But at the same time since it would mean she was still injured I hope she does go!

It's a big old mess.

 

[lariko]

Ted said as much on the broadcast.

And really, it does kind of make sense; if the gold medalists get in on the basis of one event, arguably looking at both events for the rest is subjecting them to a higher standard.

To make it more confusing the document says total score, but i guess it’s total as in SP+FS vs total combined of 2 events. Well, there are a few weeks for them to announce it.

If it were total combined, it would be Kovalev>Rukhin, and Ted was pretty certain that it was Rukhin because K was a couple of points below R’s highest. And, yes, Zhilina was shown as qualified for the final officially in the beginning of the women’s event when Ted discussed who qualified. He also repeated a few times about all the gold medalists that they ‘don’t need it, they are already in’

 

[GretchenG]

Jr Ladies

Actual results:

Lindsay Thorngren

Isabeau Levito

Veronika Zhilina

Sofia Akatieva

Adelia Petrosian

Sofia Muravieva

Combined scores:

Sofia Akatieva	233.08	225.64	458.72
Sofia Muravieva	208.25	211.81	420.06
Adelia Petrosyan	201.21	210.57	411.78
Isabeau Levito	202.35	208.31	410.66
Sofia Samodelkina	202.39	205.67	408.06
Anastasia Zinina	206.2	190.66	396.86

Alternates would be Elizaveta Kulikova (1), Chaeyeon Kim (2), Lindsay Thorngren (3)

Placements:

Sofia Akatieva	15	15	30
Sofia Muravieva	13	15	28
Isabeau Levito	15	13	28
Adelia Petrosyan	11	15	26
Lindsay Thorngren	15	11	26
Sofia Samodelkina	11	13	24

Anastasia Zinina would be 1st alternate, then Kaiya Ruiter, then Kulikova

For women, the results from the different methods are more different than the other disciplines, because Zhilina gets in with one event, which isn't normally a thing, and didn't happen in men/pairs/dance.

If they allow Zhilina into the final after only one event, I'm going to be really disgusted. I know these are exceptional circumstances, but I think that's going too far off the reservation. Excuse the term. Your Actual Results list is what I have, except I've swapped out Zhilina for Zinina. If you exclude Zhilina, there are only five winners. That means that the girl with the highest second place finish, which is Zinina, qualifies. I can't wait to find out which of all of us is right. There should be prizes.

 

[Jontor]

I think it was the strongest JGP season in ladies and I hope ISU will do something to ensure this generation will not be lost.

I kinda agree.