ISU Congress: Age limit to gradually increase to 17

[moriel]

“Raising the age limit is a quick fix that will deny athletes a performance on the biggest stage, and ultimately not make a difference in stopping the abuse” (c), and I'm with Tara on this.

The sport is expensive. This change does nothing for the athletes except taking away 2 years when they could be making money. They will still train hard, they will still get injured, they just won't get paid for it.

The injuries are cumulative, and the overall probability of getting a serious one is proportional to the career length. This change forces a longer career = forces more injuries. Or opting out before they even happen.

Long career is not necessarily a good thing unless you are top of the top. See lets say Bruno Massot interviews on how he was taking money from parents to support himself in an age when most people actually support themselves just fine. Long career also doesn't match with getting an education (while we have some exceptions, university + top skating does't match).

Overall, this is basically just a "sweep it under the carpet and make the athletes pay for it" from ISU.

 

[Fluture]

juniors probably get minimal sponsorships

Well, just to add a bit of perspective here — Akatieva already has a sponsor and for about two years now. Flysport, a training clothes company. As has Jia Shin, btw, another one of those being affected by the age limit. After her Junior Worlds Silver, she announced her collaboration with a jewelry company.

So, I think the skaters from big federations, who would have been senior stars at 15, won't have as much of an issue managing in juniors for two more years. Also, as others have said - men manage just fine and most of them don't move to senior at 15. Ice dancers, pair skaters are all older on average as well. If they can - why shouldn't female single skaters?

 

[lariko]

Well, just to add a bit of perspective here — Akatieva already has a sponsor and for about two years now. Flysport, a training clothes company. As has Jia Shin, btw, another one of those being affected by the age limit. After her Junior Worlds Silver, she announced collaboration with a jewelry company.

So, I think the skaters from big federations, who would have been senior stars at 15, won't have as much of an issue managing in juniors for two more years. Also, as others have said - men manage just fine and most of them don't move to senior at 15. Ice dancers, pair skaters are all older on average as well. If they can - why shouldn't female single skaters?

Trusova had major sponsorships in Juniors as well, I believe.

As long as the fans recognize junior sports as amazing, sponsors will pay attention. It's as simple as that. Sponsorship goes to what people want to watch. It's totally in the fans' own hands to continue to watch.

Heck, if I am dreaming in technicolor, maybe it even gets juniors Eu and 4CC!

Basically, the angle shouldn't be 'omg, these talented young women are going be toiling in obscurity for 2 years!!!', imo it should be, Junior Sports should get more attention and more sponsorships. Let's make it happen. It ain't a law in any land that fans must ignore junior sports.

 

[mrrice]

Mr Rice, Irina Rodnina agrees with you.

“They kill figure skating. All this is directed against our amazingly successful team and especially against the girls.” Russian coaches about ISU decisions

The International Skating Union (ISU) has extended the suspension of Russian athletes from international competitions and adopted the proposal of gradual raising the age minimum. Comments from Russian coaches

fs-gossips.com

Everything is possible. Russian figure skaters won medals in theirs almost 30 years. Why do we forget Masha Butyrskaya? Our first world champion.
Why are you so focused on these 15 years? What is this, a disaster? This is a disaster only for children who, after 15 years, do not know what to do.
It seems to me that this will bring a little more health in terms of athletes and these completely unnecessary conversations.

Many of the other Russian officials and coaches quoted in the article repeat the conspiracy theory happy hoo-hah, but I am pleasantly surprised by Rodnina's and Bestiamanova's reaction.

Use

Trusova had major sponsorships in Juniors as well, I believe.

As long as the fans recognize junior sports as amazing, sponsors will pay attention. It's as simple as that. Sponsorship goes to what people want to watch. It's totally in the fans' own hands to continue to watch.

Heck, if I am dreaming in technicolor, maybe it even gets juniors Eu and 4CC!

Basically, the angle shouldn't be 'omg, these talented young women are going be toiling in obscurity for 2 years!!!', imo it should be, Junior Sports should get more attention and more sponsorships. Let's make it happen. It ain't a law in any land that fans must ignore junior sports.

Look, we all know that beautiful Michelle Kwan was not my favorite skater. However, she had a nice long career. She did win her first Worlds at 16 but, her best seasons IMO, were 2001 and 2003. She was in her 20's when she won those titles. I think the skaters will adjust and in a few seasons, this will no longer be an issue.

 

[macy]

Use
Look, we all know that beautiful Michelle Kwan was not my favorite skater. However, she had a nice long career. She did win her first Worlds at 16 but, her best seasons IMO, were 2001 and 2003. She was in her 20's when she won those titles. I think the skaters will adjust and in a few seasons, this will no longer be an issue.

they will be fine. the ones turning senior next year are unaffected and the ones turning senior in the 2-4 years following have time to adjust their training and plans accordingly. the young ones at low levels will be brought up in a completely different training plan and won't know the difference.

 

[lariko]

Use
Look, we all know that beautiful Michelle Kwan was not my favorite skater. However, she had a nice long career. She did win her first Worlds at 16 but, her best seasons IMO, were 2001 and 2003. She was in her 20's when she won those titles. I think the skaters will adjust and in a few seasons, this will no longer be an issue.

It’s not like between 17 and 20 is some dead zone either. I mean, Trusova didn’t turn into a pumpkin on her 17th birthday.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

What I mean is how did Yulia Lipnitskaya win so many events and then drop completely off the map before she turned 18. Zagitova was the same way. What is burning these beautiful young skaters out before they turn 18. Zagitova could have been the next Katerina Witt but, she seemed to disappear after her Olympic Win.

After winning the Olympics, Zagitova in the same 2018 received a silver medal in the Grand Prix final, and in 2019 she became the world champion. Do you call this disappearance? She stopped competing only after her failure in the 2019 Grand Prix Final.

And it’s completely incomprehensible to me why Alina Zagitova had to become Katarina Witt, but, for example, Alice Liu, shouldn’t?

Alice decided to go to college, Alina decided to make money on shows, master classes and in the media. At the same time, unlike Alice, she received all the significant titles in figure skating. What motivation could you offer her to want to become Katarina Witt?

A lot of people here don't take into account at all the fact that skaters make a lot more money from shows than from competitions. It's just that in order to get paid well on the show, you must first really achieve something - and not win third place at the post-Olympic World Championships, where real leaders were not allowed for political reasons.

 

[Lurker11]

this is the whole point though. of course she's not going to have endurance issues during competition- the drug is taken during training to increase the amount of repetitions and run throughs which equals higher levels of consistency, muscle memory and endurance. the drug has no use in competitions, it's used to maximize training. why do you think Eteri's skaters are more consistent than the rest of the world and perform so well under pressure?

Because skating is incredibly competitive in Russia. The Russian female skaters are the best known athletes in the country. Who would know who Mariah Bell is in the US? 7/8 best female skaters in the world are Russian.

It’s like saying the best basketball players on earth are all American they must be doping.

 

[Lurker11]

She fell at Europeans as well, not sure why a skater falling (especially a skater that has a bad axis in the air) is somehow some flag of a stamina problem.

I remember a lot of people speculating after news of the test came out that they (Valieva and company) were already aware of it because after she finished her free skate they seemed sullen for just clenching an Olympic gold medal.

Especially a fall at the start of the program with the triple axel. That’s a mechanical error

 

[Lurker11]

She fell at Europeans as well, not sure why a skater falling (especially a skater that has a bad axis in the air) is somehow some flag of a stamina problem.

I remember a lot of people speculating after news of the test came out that they (Valieva and company) were already aware of it because after she finished her free skate they seemed sullen for just clenching an Olympic gold medal.

The Russians had already won gold when she did her free skate. She went out there as an exhibition basically. There was nothing to win.

 

[Magill]

Especially a fall at the start of the program with the triple axel. That’s a mechanical error

Yet it happened not at the start of the program but more than 2 minutes into it.

 

[Magill]

She fell at Europeans as well, not sure why a skater falling (especially a skater that has a bad axis in the air) is somehow some flag of a stamina problem.

I remember a lot of people speculating after news of the test came out that they (Valieva and company) were already aware of it because after she finished her free skate they seemed sullen for just clenching an Olympic gold medal.

Not necessarily, of course, it might or might not be related to stamina issues, exhaustion causing a mistake at the take-off etc. Yet when a skater just after finishing a program kneels down on the ice, literally sits down, bends in two and fights for breath despite having skated the same program many times before and showing no signs of exhaustion, you might wonder what was different this time.
As for the other speculations you mention, I'm pretty positive even if Eteri and co. knew already they might be some problems with the tests, they would never tell it to the skater until they had to, just not to distract her before the competition. So even if they might have known, I find it highly doubtful she had a faintest idea of what awaited her in the next few days.

 

[Lurker11]

Yet it happened not at the start of the program but more than 2 minutes into it.

Yes you’re correct I must be thinking the SP in the individual event. Apart from that fall you mention she was close to perfect.

 

[macy]

Because skating is incredibly competitive in Russia. The Russian female skaters are the best known athletes in the country. Who would know who Mariah Bell is in the US? 7/8 best female skaters in the world are Russian.

It’s like saying the best basketball players on earth are all American they must be doping.

i don't think it's any coincidence the Russian ladies dominance began again in 2013 with an Eteri student and continues today with Eteri's students.

 

[Lurker11]

i don't think it's any coincidence the Russian ladies dominance began again in 2013 with an Eteri student and continues today with Eteri's students.

The successful coach attracts the best athletes.

A 25 year old Tuktamysheva would have easily got gold or silver at this year's world championship. She's best or second best skater in the world if Kamila, Sasha, Anya didn't exist. And that's a 25 year old.

 

[lariko]

i don't think it's any coincidence the Russian ladies dominance began again in 2013 with an Eteri student and continues today with Eteri's students.

That’s incorrect. Tuktamysheva and Trusova were trained by other coaches in 2021 when they won silver and bronze, and in juniors, Tutberidze’s students are starting to get pushed out, even with huge national judging bias. After Trusova and Scherbakova, none of her students demonstrate the stability, including Valieva.

And Trusova gained a lot during her season with Plushenko. Her glide much improved, she acquired a new air of self-assurance, her individuality blossomed. Even in her interview a few days ago, I can catch nostalgic note. She said, she doesn't talk about hew going to the open competition to try long jump in Tutberidze's camp, because she doesn't want to be spurned. But when she was with Plushenko, they tried different sports, including MMA, with his knowledge/supervision....

 

[Amei]

The successful coach attracts the best athletes.

A 25 year old Tuktamysheva would have easily got gold or silver at this year's world championship. She's best or second best skater in the world if Kamila, Sasha, Anya didn't exist. And that's a 25 year old.

And where Feds will back athletes because the coach has proven results. But we do see cracks in Eteri skaters dominance, the 3 medalists from junior nationals were all coached by different people

 

[mrrice]

It’s not like between 17 and 20 is some dead zone either. I mean, Trusova didn’t turn into a pumpkin on her 17th birthday.

Well, I'm speaking simply in terms of long careers. Zagitiva, IMO, is a lot like Tara Lipinski. She had made a huge splash winning Nationals, Worlds, and the Olympics all before she turned 18, and then chose to leave competing behind. That's fine. For me, and maybe I'm old fashioned, I still find Michelle Kwan's Career of 9 Nationals, 5 World Titles and two Olympic Medals to be superior due to her longevity. Tara has made a name for herself by becoming the US commentator and that keeps her in the spotlight. I never said Zagitova "Should" become the next Katerina Witt. I said, she "Clould" have been the next Katerina Witt. There's a big difference between those words. I don't fault any skater if they choose a big payday, over the grind of eligible skating.

 

[lariko]

I hear she became an actress, is that true. I remember seeing her do a gp event. She was great but, Koster



Well, I'm speaking simply in terms of long careers. Zagitiva, IMO, is a lot like Tara Lipinski. She had made a huge splash winning Nationals, Worlds, and the Olympics all before she turned 18, and then chose to leave competing behind. That's fine. For me, and maybe I'm old fashioned, I still find Michelle Kwan's Career of 9 Nationals, 5 World Titles and two Olympic Medals to be superior due to her longevity. Tara has made a name for herself by becoming the US commentator and that keeps her in the spotlight. I never said Zagitova "Should" become the next Katerina Witt, I she "Clould" have been the next Katerina Witt. There's a big difference between those words. I don't fault any skater if they choose a big payday, over the grind of eligible skating.

How long did Kwan compete in Juniors? Because Trusova, for example, has started winning titles in 2017-2018 season. So, she skated and set records and firsts for 4 seasons before taking silver in the Olympics. If she goes till next Olympics her career would be as long as Kwan’s but in far, far, far sterner competition and jumping all quads.

As such, she is already half-way there, to your perfect career length, except, unlike Kwan, she is forbidden to skater next season by no decision of hers.

So, tbh, it is a bit disingenuous right now to even say Russian women have such short careers, while they are kept away from those careers with additional demotivating factor of them not even knowing when they could return, and which one of them will make that single spot they will have, thus delaying access for another year. Are you gonna count all those lost years into their length of career?

 

[lariko]

Okay, I pulled data on Kwan, and she is no different whatsoever from Russians where age is concerned. In fact, she is younger.

she is July born, 1980, just like Akat’yeva, on the same actual day (!), July 7th, so she is age-1 for eligibility.

In 1993-1994 she won Junior Worlds, the only one she went to, the first she is eligible for at 13.

She then went seniors immediately, in 1994-95, at 14, younger than Russians of current crop did. Russians had to continue to compete in Juniors. This would have been equivalent of Akat’yeva winning JWC last year and moving to seniors this coming fall.

So, on she went at 14 into seniors, where she skated till 2004-2005 season when she is 24 in figure skating years, I.e younger than Tuktamysheva. It was also her first season under IJS, and she immediately fell out of medals. Immediately.

So Kwan’s ‘longevity’ is facilitated by extremely early entry into seniors. And, the 6.0 system where they gave medals to whoever they liked the best/seniority. She jumped triples. I assure you, if competitions in Russia demanded triples, and Russia had 3x more spots, they would all stay on till 24 like Kwan.

Kwan’s wiki doesn’t list any firsts or records. She just got medals and nobody scrutinized her technical content or asked if she can even do 3A.