Jason Brown

[Tavi...]

Okay y’all. How about this:

1. will he have a new FS costume?

2. what will we see as far as 4S? Remember the process with the 4T - it took quite a while before he stood up on it at SA. Will he be better than that here? With an 18 month timeline they may think it’s worth it to start now even if it’s quite iffy. Of course he could land it beautifully here. But I guess even if it is really rough - say, with a fall AND a <<, he would still probably earn 1-2 points (but might also lose a bit on PCS). Since he only earns about 4+ points for a 2A, it’s not a huge point loss, as long as he is clean in the rest of the program. Which means he still stands a pretty good chance to make the team. Thoughts?

 

[el henry]

Okay y’all. How about this:

1. will he have a new FS costume?

2. what will we see as far as 4S? Remember the process with the 4T - it took quite a while before he stood up on it at SA. Will he be better than that here? With an 18 month timeline they may think it’s worth it to start now even if it’s quite iffy. Of course he could land it beautifully here. But I guess even if it is really rough - say, with a fall AND a <<, he would still probably earn 1-2 points (but might also lose a bit on PCS). Since he only earns about 4+ points for a 2A, it’s not a huge point loss, as long as he is clean in the rest of the program. Which means he still stands a pretty good chance to make the team. Thoughts?

What, talk about skating instead of driving and making me think
one last skating/driving point: skates! you can take your skates in the car. I'm sold

I am so torn about the 4S. Of course the fantasy is standing up on a perfect 4S. I wouldn't even mind a UR 4S. That has to be worth more than a pop to a 2S, right?

But a fall Bad memories of last year's FS at Nats, when the skate fell apart after the fall, and if *I* have bad memories, poor Jason....

ETA: I gracefully give up on the FS costume. We will see bowling shirts until the end of time

 

[Tavi...]

What, talk about skating instead of driving and making me think
one last skating/driving point: skates! you can take your skates in the car. I'm sold

I am so torn about the 4S. Of course the fantasy is standing up on a perfect 4S. I wouldn't even mind a UR 4S. That has to be worth more than a pop to a 2S, right?

But a fall Bad memories of last year's FS at Nats, when the skate fell apart after the fall, and if *I* have bad memories, poor Jason....

ETA: I gracefully give up on the FS costume. We will see bowling shirts until the end of time

Yes, SKATING!

I think it’s so tough bc we’re so used to seeing him fall. It would be amazing if he landed it.

 

[Bookseller]

I think that if he's training the 4S well, he'll go for it. If he's looking wobbly, they'll consider not going for it. A lot will depend on the score on the SP and what the other guys do on their short. How much can he afford to lose and still make the team? His stated goal at the beginning of the season was podium and World's. If he's sticking to that, I would expect a lower risk skate with high quality elements. But if he is standing in solid position in his short program, given the competition at this year's Nationals he might go for it. I don't anticipate a costume change. Most of his online photos feature that costume and it's not as unpopular out there than it is here. I think they tailored it better later in the season. It doesn't look horrible now. And the blue suits him.

 

[Tavi...]

@Bookseller that does make sense, but I wonder if he’s at the point where putting the 4S out there is a priority. Unless he totally messes up the rest of the program, which admittedly is possible (as in last year’s meltdown) there are only a few points difference between a great 2A (about 4.3 points) and an awful 4S, so points would have to be really tight for it to matter. If I’m doing my calculations correctly, if he falls on a fully-rotated 4S and gets -5 GOE, he still gets 3.85 points - nearly the same as the 2A with good GOE. Worst case scenario (I’ll ignore the in-between ones) is a fall on a downgraded (<<) 4S with -5 GOE; he ends up with about 1.25 points and loses about 3 points versus a clean 2A (he might lose an extra point in PCS for not being clean). So if he is at the point in practice where he can regularly keep it together after a fall and skate the rest of the program clean (like at Worlds 2017), I kind of hope the 4S will be in there; I hope that he’s beyond the shaky attempts in practice (like Canada and France). While anything can happen (he could screw up the SP or we could see brilliant skates by others), at this point he looks to be in a decent place to medal / make World Team even if he takes a risk with the 4S. Fingers crossed about that, anyway, bc I do think it’s an important next step in his development.

 

[Jeanie19]

I think the SP goal is clean clean clean- he can score quite high. I really like the FP and I think he can risk the 4S. Plus even if he does not land it, it shows he is upping his technical. I'm really hopeful he will be on the podium. And I think the Federation 's goal will be to send the 2 skaters that can get them 3 spots for next year.

 

[TallyT]

I gracefully give up on the FS costume. We will see bowling shirts until the end of time

Oh please no.... I didn't even like it when Javi wore one, though Jason's is slightly - and I do mean slightly - less GreatUncleTwiceRemovedOllie than Javi's.

These guys are so good-looking and eye-catching in themselves as well as in their skating, why do they want to look Even More Average Than Necessary Joe on the ice?

 

[el henry]

Oh please no.... I didn't even like it when Javi wore one, though Jason's is slightly - and I do mean slightly - less GreatUncleTwiceRemovedOllie than Javi's.

These guys are so good-looking and eye-catching in themselves as well as in their skating, why do they want to look Even More Average Than Necessary Joe on the ice?

Oh I could not agree more.

I hate hate hate the Ross Dress for Less look. I’d rather see Rohene’s Bedazzler any day.

I am just trying to be a gracious loser

 

[Tavi...]

Okay, I did a search for “ugliest bowling shirt ever,” thinking I could find something far worse than Jason’s to make us all feel better. I came up with these:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/tampajaycees/ugly shirt bowling/uglyshirtjames.jpg?w=1400
https://www.elitereaders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Ugliest-Fashion-Trends-9.jpg
https://mndesigngal.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/dscn0661.jpg

But sadly, also this, which strikes a familiar chord:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/c5/f0/90c5f0abcf25be20c158246972079a72.jpg

 

[TallyT]

Okay, I did a search for “ugliest bowling shirt ever,” thinking I could find something far worse than Jason’s to make us all feel better. I came up with these:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/tampajaycees/ugly shirt bowling/uglyshirtjames.jpg?w=1400
https://www.elitereaders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Ugliest-Fashion-Trends-9.jpg
https://mndesigngal.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/dscn0661.jpg

But sadly, also this, which strikes a familiar chord:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/90/c5/f0/90c5f0abcf25be20c158246972079a72.jpg

Oh god, I can see some of our lads looking at that second one at least and thinking "yeah..... that'll look good."

 

[Bookseller]

@Bookseller that does make sense, but I wonder if he’s at the point where putting the 4S out there is a priority. Unless he totally messes up the rest of the program, which admittedly is possible (as in last year’s meltdown) there are only a few points difference between a great 2A (about 4.3 points) and an awful 4S, so points would have to be really tight for it to matter. If I’m doing my calculations correctly, if he falls on a fully-rotated 4S and gets -5 GOE, he still gets 3.85 points - nearly the same as the 2A with good GOE. Worst case scenario (I’ll ignore the in-between ones) is a fall on a downgraded (<<) 4S with -5 GOE; he ends up with about 1.25 points and loses about 3 points versus a clean 2A (he might lose an extra point in PCS for not being clean). So if he is at the point in practice where he can regularly keep it together after a fall and skate the rest of the program clean (like at Worlds 2017), I kind of hope the 4S will be in there; I hope that he’s beyond the shaky attempts in practice (like Canada and France). While anything can happen (he could screw up the SP or we could see brilliant skates by others), at this point he looks to be in a decent place to medal / make World Team even if he takes a risk with the 4S. Fingers crossed about that, anyway, bc I do think it’s an important next step in his development.

I am pretty sure that the plan is to do the 4S. But I think the final determination will be made when the likelihood of actually landing it seems like a reality, vs the likelihood that it will just be a distraction. He's training it and if it goes well, they may try it. On the other hand, they may choose to forego it at Nats if it will hurt his chances for making the World team. But if he does make Worlds, and both Nathan and Vince, for example have strong skates, then they can risk Jason attempting the 4S. I do think that he'll go for the 4S at Nats if he can. What Jason has shown in the latter part of the season is that solid skating and clean programs can take a skater pretty far. And the other skaters and coaches have taken notice based on scores that Jason got when he skated very well, and the other scores of less than stellar quad attempts, under-rotated jumps and sub par spins.

What I truly wish for Jason is a clean skate, no injuries, no popped jumps, a good feeling of control and audience connection as he skates and the joy of being on the ice and doing the best that he can. But yes, I think that they plan for him to go for the quad. He wants it very much, but it's not his only goal. At this point we have no idea what his success rate is. That short program at IdF was magical and the FS wasn't bad either, though certainly not perfect. I'm expecting to see a performance a step up from that one, at least in the Free. If he does fall, I hope that he can rise above it, keep going and not let it hinder the excellence of the rest of the program. I think his chances of making the World Team are excellent.

 

[noskates]

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in Brian Orser but I'm betting that if the 4S isn't consistent it won't be in Jason's program. He's proven he can score huge points by going clean.

Bowling shirt. Yuck. But it's immensely better than some of the foo foo costumes we see with chiffon and stuff dangling from the sleeves. I think the only skater that could pull that off is Johnny Weir and I'll probably get pushback from saying that.

I really liked Jason's LP costume last year. Classy and subtle.

 

[el henry]

I love Jason's SP costume this year, bling and black, and those blues and purples are good for him.

I think it might depend on the SP. If he can keep the momentum going with mastery of the SP, it might take the pressure off for quad quad quad in the LP, and he might leave it out for shot at a perfect LP? And it's partly technique and partly mental, and he might be in a better place mentally now too.:yes:

And I'll come out and say it: the politik of training at TCC will, I hope, impart some judging love. All of us here are Jason fans, and of course we all love Kori, but we also have no doubt that in the US Fed's eyes, Jason traded "up" for his new coaches. Perhaps giving him some benefit of the doubt? :think:

 

[Tavi...]

@Bookseller, I think you and I pretty much agree.

@noskates, “foo foo costumes” made my day! I mourn the loss of the Piano costume; as far as I’m concerned he could wear subtle variations on that for the rest of his competitive career and I’d be perfectly happy.

@el henry, tut tut, who your coaching team is shouldn’t affect your scores.

Overall, yeah it’s a dilemma whether or not to add a possibly imperfect quad to what could be a clean, very high scoring quadless FS.

Not sure how long it will be until they leave for Detroit - it’s incredibly annoying, but USFS are apparently no longer publishing a practice schedule online. I’m guessing senior men will arrive around January 21? Ugh so long. Hopefully Karne will have time to give us a few practice reports!

 

[Bookseller]

@Bookseller, I think you and I pretty much agree.

@noskates, “foo foo costumes” made my day! I mourn the loss of the Piano costume; as far as I’m concerned he could wear subtle variations on that for the rest of his competitive career and I’d be perfectly happy.

@el henry, tut tut, who your coaching team is shouldn’t affect your scores.

Overall, yeah it’s a dilemma whether or not to add a possibly imperfect quad to what could be a clean, very high scoring quadless FS.

Not sure how long it will be until they leave for Detroit - it’s incredibly annoying, but USFS are apparently no longer publishing a practice schedule online. I’m guessing senior men will arrive around January 21? Ugh so long. Hopefully Karne will have time to give us a few practice reports!

I'm with you on the Piano costume too! I think that classic look suited Jason to a T. But with the change in hairstyle, I think they and Jason maybe wanted to go for a different look. I just watched Jason's Free in 2013 Nats where he has foo foo on his costume and I can't say that I love it. I think Jason looks good in simple, sleek and classic. The biggest problem with the bowling shirt is that it isn't sleek, though it might be considered classic of a sort. But I think that it looks more tailored now and fits him better.

I do trust Brian and especially Tracy in helping Jason to make a smart decision on that quad attempt. I don't know that training at TCC will have a lot of positive impact on the judges at Nats. I think that internationally it matters more. Apparently the judges at Champs Camp gave Jason a really hard time, so he will have to fight against any self induced stress of trying to prove something to them that he doesn't necessarily have prove. But I do think that they'll be scrutinizing him pretty closely. It certainly would give him a boost to actually land a fully rotated quad. And I think his team will definitely take that into serious consideration. The judges will be watching his practice sessions closely too. So we may not know until the day of competition whether he is leaving the quad in his plan, or not. I would say that the judges will be very curious, but since his late season results were good, I don't think they'll be skeptical.

Since it's just Tracy and Jason going from TCC, and the time zone doesn't change, they'll probably get to Detroit the day before practice starts. On the other hand if they are driving and there is bad weather predicted, they might go earlier.

 

[noskates]

Lawdy! Lawdy! (said in my best Southern accent!) I think I've coined a new word - foo foo. But I think you all knew what I was talking about. I honestly don't think Jason EVER looked good in blingy costumes. I especially wasn't fond of his Riverdance get-up but the program was so awesome I overlooked it.

I also tend to agree with El (not the first time either) that the coaching staff could have some bearing on the judging - sad as that may be and mostly because it shouldn't have anything to do with it. I do think Brian Orser is the premier coach these days and if he has a skater under his wing they'll get an extra point or two. I think we can agree that the skate alone doesn't always get the most attention.

 

[Tavi...]

@Bookseller - yeah I kind of can’t imagine the Piano costume without the manbun, so different look makes sense. I actually also really liked his two most recent SP costumes (Hamilton and the grey military type jacket for the Sam Smith). And agree about one for 2013 FS - I’m assuming you mean the one for Liebestraume? I remember Karne was so annoyed bc it started off beautifully plain and simple and ended up too foo foo, and with blue velvet pants.

By the way, I think I completely missed anything about the judges giving him a hard time at Champs Camp - not surprisingly bc my brain has been elsewhere for much of the season. Do you remember what they said? I think it would be weird if they didn’t take into account that he just started with a new coaching team, but since we’re talking USFS I guess it’s not that weird.

@noskates, I really do wonder if “prestigious coaching team” is a thing. His scores at ACI and Skate Canada were pretty low, for example. Or did you just mean at Nats? On the other hand, his score in SP in France was really high, and I guess you could ask whether he’d have gotten a slightly lower score if he’d skated that exact program but was still with Kori. I don’t know, though, bc TCC have really been working on improving elements so he gets higher GOE. So it’s not clear to me whether that really extra high score was due to Brian and Tracy versus just an exceptional skate.

===

Apparently USFS posted a practice schedule awhile back and then took it down - maybe to revise it? In any case, on the schedule men’s first official practice isn’t until like Thursday. So I’m afraid I’m going to be really, really, impatient for next two weeks.

===

Regarding that quad: I have to say, we’ve seen him fall on the 4T so many times that it’s hard for me to imagine anything else even on 4S. On the other hand, I also had an awful time imagining him without the pony tail / manbun, and look how well that turned out. Hopefully his 4S will turn out just as well as the new look - brilliant!

 

[Bookseller]

@Bookseller - yeah I kind of can’t imagine the Piano costume without the manbun, so different look makes sense. I actually also really liked his two most recent SP costumes (Hamilton and the grey military type jacket for the Sam Smith). And agree about one for 2013 FS - I’m assuming you mean the one for Liebestraume? I remember Karne was so annoyed bc it started off beautifully plain and simple and ended up too foo foo, and with blue velvet pants.

By the way, I think I completely missed anything about the judges giving him a hard time at Champs Camp - not surprisingly bc my brain has been elsewhere for much of the season. Do you remember what they said? I think it would be weird if they didn’t take into account that he just started with a new coaching team, but since we’re talking USFS I guess it’s not that weird.

@noskates, I really do wonder if “prestigious coaching team” is a thing. His scores at ACI and Skate Canada were pretty low, for example. Or did you just mean at Nats? On the other hand, his score in SP in France was really high, and I guess you could ask whether he’d have gotten a slightly lower score if he’d skated that exact program but was still with Kori. I don’t know, though, bc TCC have really been working on improving elements so he gets higher GOE. So it’s not clear to me whether that really extra high score was due to Brian and Tracy versus just an exceptional skate.

===

Apparently USFS posted a practice schedule awhile back and then took it down - maybe to revise it? In any case, on the schedule men’s first official practice isn’t until like Thursday. So I’m afraid I’m going to be really, really, impatient for next two weeks.

===

Regarding that quad: I have to say, we’ve seen him fall on the 4T so many times that it’s hard for me to imagine anything else even on 4S. On the other hand, I also had an awful time imagining him without the pony tail / manbun, and look how well that turned out. Hopefully his 4S will turn out just as well as the new look - brilliant!

Yes, Liebestraume. The ruffle on the shoulder was very distracting. And Jason looked very, very young. And he was 18, but he didn't look 18. The first time I saw Jason (on TV) was at 2014 Nats, so I had no frame of reference other than that he skated fantastically and made me fall in love with figure skating again. I was hooked!

The whole business of Champs Camp was in an interview or a videoblog as I recall. Jason described his experience of going in front of the judges with whatever program he brought with him as being "a disaster." He said that he had hoped that his enthusiasm for the process would convince them, but apparently it didn't. He didn't share what was said, but it was clear that they were unimpressed. That was pretty much all that he said about it. But the message was clear. Whatever he did, they weren't buying. Subsequent discussions stressed the 18 month process.

But as they say "the proof is in the pudding" and that SP at IdF was a perfect Mousse au Chocolat! So I don't think the Champs Camp experience will color Nationals too much.

Nothing would make me happier than for Jason to have a beautiful freeskate with a perfectly landed Quad. Any positive GOE would be most acceptable.

 

[el henry]

The interview about Champs Camp was on the Olympic Talk page:

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018...tory-ahead-of-skate-canada-and-2022-olympics/

“It was. . .I don’t want to say a disaster, but the (reactions) were all over the map,” he [Jason]said. “They (USFS officials) know me, and they know there is a transition, and they trust my coaching team, but there are still expectations.

“I had to accept it and forgive myself. I had to take a step back and say, ‘This is where I am right now.’”

Sounds like it was an ACI experience, some good, some bad.

But they trusted TCC to put it right

 

[Bookseller]

The interview about Champs Camp was on the Olympic Talk page:

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018...tory-ahead-of-skate-canada-and-2022-olympics/

“It was. . .I don’t want to say a disaster, but the (reactions) were all over the map,” he [Jason]said. “They (USFS officials) know me, and they know there is a transition, and they trust my coaching team, but there are still expectations.

“I had to accept it and forgive myself. I had to take a step back and say, ‘This is where I am right now.’”

Sounds like it was an ACI experience, some good, some bad.

But they trusted TCC to put it right

That's the one. And he's now in a different place. And a better one! Thanks for looking that up!