Jason Brown

[Bookseller]

Maybe it’s meaningful for him personally to debut the FS in Germany.

@MGstyle, I’m sorry, I know you were hoping he would be at Lombardia, but I hope you’re able to travel to Obertsdorf.

Leaving aside my personal angst with the time difference (I think the men’s SP starts at 3:00 am Thursday my time) I think this is a good choice for Jason. It gives him a bit more time to polish the programs, it’s relatively low key, and it’s at almost the same altitude as Vegas.

I also think that going without his TCC teammates might benefit him. He’s such a team player and such a supportive friend but I sometimes think he hasn’t quite made the leap to thinking of himself as someone who could potentially win a GP or medal at Worlds. Some of that is realistic based on his technical deficit, but I think some of it is in his head - remember when Yuzu canceled at NHK and everyone thought Jason would win, but then he kinda fell apart? I think he needs to be able to handle expectations like that. He’s good at handling pressure when he’s doing it for the team (ie make sure we get 3 Olympic spots). Now I think he needs to be able to do it for himself. I know he’s won Challengers before, but I think a Challenger without Yuzu - where he doesn’t automatically see himself as fighting for silver or bronze - might help him start the season thinking of himself as someone who deserves to make the GPF and/or who can potentially medal or win on a bigger stage. JMO.

I think that you are absolutely right! This might just be worth getting up in the middle of the night to watch.

 

[katmari]

Didn't he go on to become U.S. Champion after his last Nebelhorn outing? Followed by Nats in Greensboro? Maybe there's some good karma there.

Jason also made his senior debut at Nebelhorn in 2013 when it was still a Senior B competition and finished 2nd to Nobunari Oda. (The Challenger series started in 2014.)

The programs weren't perfect but the British Eurosport guys loved Jason and his musicality/flexibility/performance quality:

Question of U SP

Riverdance FS

So both times he has competed at Nebelhorn it's been the start of a great season. Here's hoping this year continues the tradition.

 

[Ross74]

Jason also made his senior debut at Nebelhorn in 2013 when it was still a Senior B competition and finished 2nd to Nobunari Oda. (The Challenger series started in 2014.)

The programs weren't perfect but the British Eurosport guys loved Jason and his musicality/flexibility/performance quality:

Question of U SP

Riverdance FS

So both times he has competed at Nebelhorn it's been the start of a great season. Here's hoping this year continues the tradition.

Thanks! I loved watching these and hearing the comments. One question. On the FS the announcer said he had a quad in the program but chose not to do it. Was he really planning to do a quad in 2013? I don't remember hearing about that.

 

[Tavi...]

Thanks! I loved watching these and hearing the comments. One question. On the FS the announcer said he had a quad in the program but chose not to do it. Was he really planning to do a quad in 2013? I don't remember hearing about that.

I think that was probably Kori PR. Remember Jason had just moved to Colorado and I think he really struggled with the altitude (didn’t he say he needed oxygen for awhile)? And Riverdance was really demanding - it took him a long time to even skate it clean. So even if they had a placeholder for a quad, I doubt he was training it seriously.

If I recall, in one of his 2011 programs at Nats there was a similar comment about his 3A (the story then was, they decided to take it out so he could focus on the program) which he didn’t land in competition for another 2 years.

Also, remember Jason’s comments after his first public attempt at the 4T at 2015 4CCs? Paraphrasing, but it was something like: we got home from Nationals and Kori took it off the harness and told me we were going to do it at 4CCs.

Honestly, I thank Kori for all the beautiful stuff she did help Jason develop - which was a lot - but I think she really did miscalculate about the quad. She thought he didn’t need it, she probably didn’t know how to teach it, he probably wasn’t excited about learning it - and then, boom, things changed. Hopefully he can make up for the delay now.

 

[el henry]

I agree with @Tavi that the quad was a plan, not an action item, and I can’t imagine a quad in the picture in 2013.

That, and the B Esp guys, as much as I love them, are not the strongest on factual background

 

[katmari]

From what I can recall from an interview Kori did at the time, the quad situation was a little complicated in the 2013/14 season. US Figure Skating had let it be known that only skaters with quads would be considered for the Olympic team. All the skaters had to look like they were "working on quads" even if it meant listing a quad on the program content sheet and then not doing it in competition. Jason was was good enough at everything else though that he scored/placed above most skaters with quads which made US Figure Skating re-evaluate the quad requirement.

We all know how the story ended ... Jason had a spectacular, once in a lifetime performance at Nationals and was selected for the Olympic team even without a quad.

 

[StitchMonkey]

As I recall the plan was for him to skate to Riverdance for two years to let it grow... nationals kinda put a kabosh on that. So i suspect it was planned with a quad as it was a two year plan.

Also he was training 4T off harness in that time frame... exhibit A is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOEynnwfK9A this clip uploaded May of 2013.

 

[Tavi...]

As I recall the plan was for him to skate to Riverdance for two years to let it grow... nationals kinda put a kabosh on that. So i suspect it was planned with a quad as it was a two year plan.

Also he was training 4T off harness in that time frame... exhibit A is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOEynnwfK9A this clip uploaded May of 2013.

Thanks for that reminder! So maybe I’m being a bit unfair to Kori. But looking at that again, it does kind of beg the question of why getting any quad has been so problematic for him. I mean it’s probably under rotated and the landing is ugly, but unless it was his one and only try off harness, I don’t really get why he apparently didn’t progress from that attempt until 2016. Yeah he had bad luck with injuries in 2016-17. But six years ago, in 2013, when he was 18, he landed a reasonable semblance of a 4T and a good one definitely looked possible. So what happened?

 

[Mrs. P]

Wasn’t it an issue that Kori subscribed to a technique that worked great on most triples but not so much quads and 3A? The old technique basically promoted going up than rotating where the one he’s learning at TCC promotes rotating immediately? His old 3As looked so nice cause there was that airy delay but he was at risk of UR-ing cause of it too. His 3As in the TCC era don’t have that big airy look but he’s at least not UR-Ing them as much.

I think opting for fewer shows and picking a later challenger gives him more time to work on the quads off season and I’m hoping it will payoff when we see him next.

 

[Ross74]

Thanks for the thoughts on the quad. I had no idea it was supposed to have been a requirement for men for the 2014 Olympic team.

Thanks for that reminder! So maybe I’m being a bit unfair to Kori. But looking at that again, it does kind of beg the question of why getting any quad has been so problematic for him. I mean it’s probably under rotated and the landing is ugly, but unless it was his one and only try off harness, I don’t really get why he apparently didn’t progress from that attempt until 2016. Yeah he had bad luck with injuries in 2016-17. But six years ago, in 2013, when he was 18, he landed a reasonable semblance of a 4T and a good one definitely looked possible. So what happened?

I think the 2015 back injury was a big setback. If training the quad caused the injury in 2015, I can see where he might have been spooked. It was a pretty big deal and he has said his family thought it could be career-ending at the time.

VincentR still has two videos up of Jason training in late 2015, prior to him being sidelined. It makes you wonder what could have been. ETA: or what might be.
https://www.instagram.com/p/8Erd03Cfz1/
https://www.instagram.com/p/8hLcWBif4-/

 

[Tavi...]

Wasn’t it an issue that Kori subscribed to a technique that worked great on most triples but not so much quads and 3A? The old technique basically promoted going up than rotating where the one he’s learning at TCC promotes rotating immediately? His old 3As looked so nice cause there was that airy delay but he was at risk of UR-ing cause of it too. His 3As in the TCC era don’t have that big airy look but he’s at least not UR-Ing them as much.

I think opting for fewer shows and picking a later challenger gives him more time to work on the quads off season and I’m hoping it will payoff when we see him next.

Yes, I think that’s right - she is a proponent of the Gus Lussi method, which I think is what you’re talking about.

I was thinking also that in addition to the injuries, his body matured a lot during that time, which probably contributed to slowing his rotation, making it harder to get all the way around on both the 3A and the quads.

Anyway, I agree that fewer shows and a later Challenger were smart choices. Hopefully he has absorbed Brian’s technique to the point where he can rely on it now. And I’m glad he’s going to Nebelhorn bc he’s had good experiences there!

 

[eaglehelang]

Thanks for that reminder! So maybe I’m being a bit unfair to Kori. But looking at that again, it does kind of beg the question of why getting any quad has been so problematic for him. I mean it’s probably under rotated and the landing is ugly, but unless it was his one and only try off harness, I don’t really get why he apparently didn’t progress from that attempt until 2016. Yeah he had bad luck with injuries in 2016-17. But six years ago, in 2013, when he was 18, he landed a reasonable semblance of a 4T and a good one definitely looked possible. So what happened?

Didnt Orser (and others) mention its due to delay in rotation?
Jason used to only start rotating on the way down. In order to successfully do a quad, needs to start rotating the moment jump up

 

[Tavi...]

Didnt Orser (and others) mention its due to delay in rotation?
Jason used to only start rotating on the way down. In order to successfully do a quad, needs to start rotating the moment jump up

I think that’s more or less right, although as I recall, Brian was pretty diplomatic and just said that Jason was taught a different technique that’s better for triples.

I don’t know what others you mean, but over the years there have been a lot of weird theories about why he’s struggled with quads, including one that he was just too flexible in the hips or something like that.

 

[eaglehelang]

I think that’s more or less right, although as I recall, Brian was pretty diplomatic and just said that Jason was taught a different technique that’s better for triples.

I don’t know what others you mean, but over the years there have been a lot of weird theories about why he’s struggled with quads, including one that he was just too flexible in the hips or something like that.

The 'others' are commentators & sports journalist, like Johnny Weir, Tara. Jackie Wong, the British commentators, Phil Hersh. There may be one or 2 other coaches the jounalists asked.
But - I'm mixed up about who said what, so decided not to mention names.

Yeah, Orser when asked said "It's not wrong. It's different from how we teach it." Orser was giving a lot of face to Jason"s longtime coach.
What struck me was Orser saying publically its different. That's when I really started taking notice of Jason's technique cos I never bothered before, hahaha.

 

[Tavi...]

The 'others' are commentators & sports journalist, like Johnny Weir, Tara. Jackie Wong, the British commentators, Phil Hersh. There may be one or 2 other coaches the jounalists asked.
But - I'm mixed up about who said what, so decided not to mention names.

Yeah, Orser when asked said "It's not wrong. It's different from how we teach it." Orser was giving a lot of face to Jason"s longtime coach.
What struck me was Orser saying publically its different. That's when I really started taking notice of Jason's technique cos I never bothered before, hahaha.

Yes, agreed as to Brian’s comments. Hopefully things will go more smoothly next season.

 

[Mrs. P]

https://content.digitalpub.blue-soh...ber2019/html/index.html?page=71&origin=reader

Short article in Skating Magazine about PFT mentions that Jason flew in from Beijing the night before. That might explain why he was so tired!

 

[Tavi...]

https://content.digitalpub.blue-soh...ber2019/html/index.html?page=71&origin=reader

Short article in Skating Magazine about PFT mentions that Jason flew in from Beijing the night before. That might explain why he was so tired!

Wow. I thought he at least had a couple of days. Pretty amazing. Having seen him live a few times, it was pretty easy to see that his energy level was much lower than usual, but that he was able to skate clean and commit to the program as much as he did under those circumstances is seriously impressive. I remember being a bit surprised that he opted for a 2A rather than a 3A, but this explains it. And frankly, that he was able to do as well as he did is a great sign that he can rely on the new technique and that it’s working for him.

 

[Ross74]

Jason appears to have a more rounded '70's fro in the making. It's the 4th picture in the series. https://www.instagram.com/p/B1MVy9fp6m4/

Arriving from Beijing the night before Broadmoor! Wow. :shocked: Glad I didn't know that in advance of watching him skate.

 

[Tavi...]

Jason appears to have a more rounded '70's fro in the making. It's the 4th picture in the series. https://www.instagram.com/p/B1MVy9fp6m4/

Arriving from Beijing the night before Broadmoor! Wow. :shocked: Glad I didn't know that in advance of watching him skate.

I devoutly hope you’re wrong about the hair and that it’s just puffy from humidity.

 

[el henry]

Holy moley, he skated after arriving the night before. From China :eeking:

It leads me to believe that the appearance may indeed have been the result of a special request. What a trooper:thumbsup:

Let's hope he leaves a little earlier for Nebelhorn