Jason Brown

[Tavi...]

I’m loving everyone’s responses, and Doris and Elbkup thanks so much for those links. Doris, yes, I think there are a couple of programs from 2010 and maybe 2009 out there. I probably should have started with them but I didn’t!

Okay, so here’s my suggestion just to keep things organized:

1. Flow Like Water: if anyone has thoughts on this who hasn’t responded yet, love to hear your thoughts. Here’s the link again: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYtxwK2wJrg

Once everyone’s had their say on this, I’ll repost the 2011 Nats SP just posted by Doris, followed by the 2011 GPF SP. Once we’re done with those, I’ll look for the earlier ones (2009-2010) so we can view those. Then I’ll repost the 2012 link posted by Elbkup and we can start moving forward in time from there, okay? . Maybe at the end we can vote for our favorites.

And since I’m pretty sure many of us are either sheltering in place or social distancing right now, once we’re done with performances maybe we can repost articles, video interviews, etc. A Jason festival!

OT but those of you who saw Nilsson / Corelli in Turandot, wow! I have their recording with Renata Scotto and it’s amazing

Okay, back to Flow Like Water? Any more thoughts?

 

[Tavi...]

For any one who has NBCSN they are rebroadcasting men’s SP from 2020 Nats right now! Sean Rabbitt is skating.

 

[karne]

I loved Flow Like Water. It was dramatic without being overly so, and perfect for Jason's, well, flowing movement. You can see some growth here physically, he looks a little more filled out and his legs appear a little longer. For the curious, the Turandot FS was the season before this - January 2011, and this was December 2011. IIRC this was the summer he grew three inches?

Something did strike me when I was watching this - that I wonder if the old technique was what gave him problems with the loop. The loop relies heavily on rotation. If you're trying to get up into the air before rotating on the loop, that is very difficult because the setup for the loop does not want it to go that way. If that's the case, it would explain why his loop appeared to give him even more trouble just after his move to TCC, and why it looks so much more secure now.

I also love that you can tell the exact time period of this program even if it didn't have a date stamp on it purely because this was when going half the ice surface on one foot during the StSq was a feature under the IJS

- - - Updated - - -

For any one who has NBCSN they are rebroadcasting men’s SP from 2020 Nats right now! Sean Rabbitt is skating.

Anyone got a stream link? I'm about to log on to work but I wouldn't object to having this on in the background!

 

[Bookseller]

I’m loving everyone’s responses, and Doris and Elbkup thanks so much for those links. Doris, yes, I think there are a couple of programs from 2010 and maybe 2009 out there. I probably should have started with them but I didn’t!

Okay, so here’s my suggestion just to keep things organized:

1. Flow Like Water: if anyone has thoughts on this who hasn’t responded yet, love to hear your thoughts. Here’s the link again: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYtxwK2wJrg

Once everyone’s had their say on this, I’ll repost the 2011 Nats SP just posted by Doris, followed by the 2011 GPF SP. Once we’re done with those, I’ll look for the earlier ones (2009-2010) so we can view those. Then I’ll repost the 2012 link posted by Elbkup and we can start moving forward in time from there, okay? . Maybe at the end we can vote for our favorites.

And since I’m pretty sure many of us are either sheltering in place or social distancing right now, once we’re done with performances maybe we can repost articles, video interviews, etc. A Jason festival!

OT but those of you who saw Nilsson / Corelli in Turandot, wow! I have their recording with Renata Scotto and it’s amazing

Okay, back to Flow Like Water? Any more thoughts?

I was a freshman in college in 1967 and took a Music History course. One of the professors in the department arranged tickets for us to see the Metropolitan Opera doing Turandot at the Civic Center in downtown Philly. I signed up with a friend and we went. I was engaged to a guy in the 101st Airborne (no we never got married) in Viet Nam and we asked him to send us Ao Dais. We wore them to the performance. It's a huge hall, not the greatest venue, but the sound was good. And we saw Corelli and Nilsson do this opera. I went right out and bought the Nilsson Corelli vinyl and had it for years. Something magical happened at that performance during that 2nd act duet. It was amazing and I am getting chills just thinking about it. A few weeks later we saw Nureyev and Fonteyn with the Royal Ballet doing Swan Lake at the same venue. We felt very cultured! Companies traveled in those day well into the 1970s. It was possible to see amazing performances from all over the world.

 

[Tavi...]

I loved Flow Like Water. It was dramatic without being overly so, and perfect for Jason's, well, flowing movement. You can see some growth here physically, he looks a little more filled out and his legs appear a little longer. For the curious, the Turandot FS was the season before this - January 2011, and this was December 2011. IIRC this was the summer he grew three inches?

Something did strike me when I was watching this - that I wonder if the old technique was what gave him problems with the loop. The loop relies heavily on rotation. If you're trying to get up into the air before rotating on the loop, that is very difficult because the setup for the loop does not want it to go that way. If that's the case, it would explain why his loop appeared to give him even more trouble just after his move to TCC, and why it looks so much more secure now.

I also love that you can tell the exact time period of this program even if it didn't have a date stamp on it purely because this was when going half the ice surface on one foot during the StSq was a feature under the IJS

- - - Updated - - -



Anyone got a stream link? I'm about to log on to work but I wouldn't object to having this on in the background!

I don’t know if they’re streaming it or not. It’s not showing up in my NBC Sports app. I’m watching on television. It doesn’t look like it. But here is a link to NBC Sports and it looks they have some random FS clips. Not sure if geoblocked.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/league/figure-skating

 

[el henry]

I liked Flow Like Water a lot. As in a lot. Absent jumps, that program today would be sophisticated and ambitious for the junior men. Intricate choreo that makes you keep following it, for lack of a better term. I don't know enough about the technicality of jumps to speak to that, but he does seem to stop before he jumps almost every time.

One of the parts I liked best was the one foot skating, and until I read @karne's post, I did not know that was a requirement. I wish they would bring it back:agree: The catchfoot is inching upwards and outwards and we have the beginnings of a proto-spiral.

And Rohene brought out the Blingometer for that one, I can't imagine what that looked like under lights

 

[dorispulaski]

The delay is particularly noticeable in that first double Axel. No wonder it took him so long to get the triple Axel.

Didn't this technique come from coach Pierre Brunet who wrote a book about skating technique? It seems to me I read Kori used that book...

I could not find that book, but I did find Brunet's obituary, and he learned his skating from a book as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/01/...-skater-in-1920-s-and-30-s-is-dead-at-89.html

Jason's one foot section was wonderful. I do wish they went back to that option for a step sequence feature.

 

[karne]

One of the parts I liked best was the one foot skating, and until I read @karne's post, I did not know that was a requirement. I wish they would bring it back:agree:

It wasn't a requirement, but it could be used a feature to bump up to level 4. Jason's were particularly obvious because he used the simple change-of-edge one-foot slalom to build speed (and honestly nearly did more slaloms in the one-foot section than actual turns).

For comparison, here is Joshua's free skate from the same event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MY0D4zaEwY. At 1:12 his StSq starts with the one-foot feature included, but he does it all with turns, and one slalom push, so his isn't as obviously pushing for that feature and probably would have gone for a higher GOE had he not slipped off his blade at the very end of the StSq. In other words, his is integrated better than Jason's was.

(Aside: god, I forgot how good Josh was at this event too. If that fall hadn't knocked the stuffing out of him I reckon he might have gone clean.)

IIRC, the feature was removed the following season because Jason was hardly the only or worst offender when it came to really obvious, slow, and dare I say, clunky, one foot sequences. It was also part of the push to try and stop StSq taking up a minute or more of the program.

But, ah, the memories! In those days there was no live stream for any JGP, not even JGPF. I remember frantically watching the wedgie data and refreshing the JGP Youtube channel because they would film, and the programs would be uploaded a few minutes after each skater had skated. It was like watching on tape-delay.

 

[Tavi...]

The delay is particularly noticeable in that first double Axel. No wonder it took him so long to get the triple Axel.

Didn't this technique come from coach Pierre Brunet who wrote a book about skating technique? It seems to me I read Kori used that book...

I could not find that book, but I did find Brunet's obituary, and he learned his skating from a book as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/01/...-skater-in-1920-s-and-30-s-is-dead-at-89.html

Jason's one foot section was wonderful. I do wish they went back to that option for a step sequence feature.

In the past, Kori said repeatedly that she taught Gus Lussi technique. I believe Lussi developed the delayed axel technique.

Re Flow Like Water: I, too, love that step sequence - and I especially like that it’s done to percussion. I love that score so much that I actually bought the whole soundtrack. . I really like the choreo - like his Turandot program it’s filled with transitions and he’s constantly moving, but it never seems frantic or stuffed like some programs you see today. It’s interesting, though, to compare this to his most recent programs, which have fewer transitions (and far fewer crossovers!) and focus more on gorgeous execution of everything he does.

Otherwise, he does seem to have grown since the Turandot - he looks less like a gangly kid and seems a bit less secure in his jumps (I saw a lot of snow flying).

Okay for today, why don’t we look at both 2011 short programs and compare them to each other and maybe to the two free skates we just watched:

Here is the 2011 Nats short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaTW6dT3Yjc

Here is the 2011 JGPF short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xAG9G_m_IM

 

[dorispulaski]

I think you are right and it was Lussi.

Do you suppose Kori watched these?

http://www.lussitechnicalvideo.com

Or read this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Championship-Figure-Skating-Famous-Gustave/dp/1258429888

Here's his wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Lussi

Off to watch today's assignment.

 

[Ruthypegs]

In the past, Kori said repeatedly that she taught Gus Lussi technique. I believe Lussi developed the delayed axel technique.

Re Flow Like Water: I, too, love that step sequence - and I especially like that it’s done to percussion. I love that score so much that I actually bought the whole soundtrack. . I really like the choreo - like his Turandot program it’s filled with transitions and he’s constantly moving, but it never seems frantic or stuffed like some programs you see today. It’s interesting, though, to compare this to his most recent programs, which have fewer transitions (and far fewer crossovers!) and focus more on gorgeous execution of everything he does.

Otherwise, he does seem to have grown since the Turandot - he looks less like a gangly kid and seems a bit less secure in his jumps (I saw a lot of snow flying).

Okay for today, why don’t we look at both 2011 short programs and compare them to each other and maybe to the two free skates we just watched:

Here is the 2011 Nats short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaTW6dT3Yjc

Here is the 2011 JGPF short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xAG9G_m_IM

Watching these programs from 9 years ago, made me appreciate even more the 100s or more likely 1000s of hours of practice that Jason had already put in by age 16 to hone his craft. So much detail in each programme, and some great/interesting spin positions.

 

[Tavi...]

I think you are right and it was Lussi.

Do you suppose Kori watched these?

http://www.lussitechnicalvideo.com

Or read this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Championship-Figure-Skating-Famous-Gustave/dp/1258429888

Here's his wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Lussi

Off to watch today's assignment.

Cecily Morrow, who is mentioned briefly in the video blurb, was on staff at 7K briefly but had to return to Lake Placid bc she couldn’t acclimate to the altitude. For a while she was listed on the 7K as an associate coach of 7K located in Lake Placid. I’m not sure if she and Kori still have any association.

Speaking of which, 2022 Nats will be held at the Ford Center. Which means Jason will be at Kori’s new rink when Olympic Team is decided.

 

[noskates]

My only major comment on Flow Like Water is when have any of you seen a 15 or 16 year old with that much grace and smooth flowing figure skating? Jason has always been uber-talented but we all have to thank Kori for developing him.

And my comment on Turandot. I was sent to New Mexico for 3 years to work for Bank of America (30 yr retiree) and had occasion to go to a production of Turandot at the Santa Fe Opera. The House itself is like a big round ball with a slice out of the middle that's open air. During the opera we had a huge electrical storm, which is not uncommon in the summer months in NM. So here we are listening to this spine-chilling music and seeing lightning strikes on either side of the stage. One of my fondest life memories. I know I digress but when you're self-quarantining you have to amuse yourself. :rofl2:

By the way - has anyone seen or heard about Kori lately?

 

[fzztsimmons]

I just want to say thank you for this idea! Watching baby jason really cheered me up - I'm a healthcare worker and things are looking extremely dire in my country right now with COVID-19 and my anxiety is at its peak but this was a lovely way of winding down and taking my mind off things after a shift.

What struck me as well as the general grace and fab skating skills you rarely see in juniors nowadays that Jason had was just how interesting some of his transitions were! I definitely want to see more spirals into jumps again (i know the risk of not landing the jump is probably not worth the very minimal benefit from such a difficult transition but still, it looks cool!!)

 

[Bookseller]

Just finished watching the 2011 duo of videos. I've never seen either of these before, so this is a one viewing off the cuff response. At Nats, Jason looks like a very polished junior. He has a junior body, and the jumps were good but not as good as the commentator indicated. That loop in the combo was under-rotated and the lutz wasn't quite as clean as one would hope. But his musicality and grace are well in evidence. I didn't care for the music at all. But he handled it well. The score was deserved. The second video is astonishing. He looks like a completely different skater from the head down. In that video, I see the Jason who will do Riverdance in 2+ years. His body is different, more defined and his movements have more flow and the elements are all much better than early in the year in January. The music is interesting. The costume is very blingy, but it doesn't overpower him. He wears it, it doesn't wear him. His jumps are solid. If we saw that now, we would say that he has a huge amount of work to do to increase the difficulty and scoring potential of his jumps. But he looks like a senior skater on his way up, not a junior. I didn't look up the scores or placement for that short. The K&C wasn't shown. But I can see the beginnings of the Jason we know now. That was a big development year.

 

[Bookseller]

My only major comment on Flow Like Water is when have any of you seen a 15 or 16 year old with that much grace and smooth flowing figure skating? Jason has always been uber-talented but we all have to thank Kori for developing him.

And my comment on Turandot. I was sent to New Mexico for 3 years to work for Bank of America (30 yr retiree) and had occasion to go to a production of Turandot at the Santa Fe Opera. The House itself is like a big round ball with a slice out of the middle that's open air. During the opera we had a huge electrical storm, which is not uncommon in the summer months in NM. So here we are listening to this spine-chilling music and seeing lightning strikes on either side of the stage. One of my fondest life memories. I know I digress but when you're self-quarantining you have to amuse yourself. :rofl2:

By the way - has anyone seen or heard about Kori lately?

Kori is under the radar, but active in Nashville. I saw something recently that she posted on Instagram about a skating demo. I don't think she currently has any serious competitors in her stable. She's working with young kids mostly. She's very good at bringing up young skaters as we saw with Jason and Jordan early on. She developed Mariah early on also.

 

[karne]

Okay for today, why don’t we look at both 2011 short programs and compare them to each other and maybe to the two free skates we just watched:

Here is the 2011 Nats short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KaTW6dT3Yjc

Here is the 2011 JGPF short program: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xAG9G_m_IM

A lot to unpack here. I'll start with this:

At Nats, Jason looks like a very polished junior. He has a junior body, and the jumps were good but not as good as the commentator indicated. (snip) The second video is astonishing. He looks like a completely different skater from the head down. (snip) But he looks like a senior skater on his way up, not a junior. I didn't look up the scores or placement for that short. The K&C wasn't shown. But I can see the beginnings of the Jason we know now. That was a big development year.

I think this is even more stark when comparing the two SPs. The Baliwood SP (the Nats one) - I'd almost say the music is too fast for him. It makes him look really slow, even though he hits all the highlights appropriately. It really shows up his lack of speed. But then in the JGPF one, he looks much faster, stronger, all around more, well, Senior-ish. Josh and Jason absolutely looked like Seniors in their last two years as Juniors and this sort of thing, their flow and speed and general attention to musical detail, was a huge reason why.

Without wanting to rewrite history, I look at that Baliwood one now and wonder what his team was thinking. Jason was not fast enough for it and the music only served to highlight it, rather than hide it. Of course, hindsight is 20/20. The JGPF SP, on the other hand, is much more mature and much better suited to his speed. It's funny, it was only after this season that Kori and Rohene kept talking about wanting to present Jason as a more mature skater and then immediately took a huge step backwards by putting him in the oversized Prince ruffles and blue velvet pants for Liebestraume. Flow Like Water and this SP are already a much more mature step. You can already see hints and forerunners of the later brilliance. At Nats he still looks a bit puppy-ish, like he's growing into his hands and feet. By JGPF, he's had that growth spurt and already looks more adult.

The JGPF SP also serves to remind me that I'd really love to see Jason tackle a proper Latin program. I'm sure they could come up with something that wasn't Roxanne or some warhorse.

For the record - Jason was second after the SP at JGPF that year, behind Joshua, and second in the FS, behind Han Yan, but won overall, because Josh had a not fantastic FS and Han had not had a good SP.

You can also see that by JGPF his flutz is starting to improve, but it's still definitely a flutz.

 

[Bookseller]

I think that GPF was a big leap for him. It's glimpses of the Jason to come. They should have fixed that flutz back them. Oh well! Looking forward to tomorrow's video! This is such fun!

 

[el henry]

OMG, Jason in one year, from the first year to this second year, what an improvement! The catchfoot was actually not so impressive the first year, the second year, starting to look like Jason. Everything he is doing, more graceful, more polished, more precise with his movements. So fascinating to see him grow, literally and as a skater.

I remembered that he had skated to Baliwood and remembered liking that program. Yes, this music is ultra fast, but no one can skate that fast, so it's cute peppy music for a cute peppy kid.

But if I saw the Grand Guignol program before, I don't remember it. I love it. I just love it:luv17: Can Jason skate to that again? Can he skate the same choreo, but with splits and spirals and Ina Bauers? And how amazing was his sit spin, even then. If that's considered a tango, I usually dislike tango programs, but I will make an exception for this.

And Blingometer 2.0 (or I guess 1.0 since Flow like Water was the LP)

No wonder fans got on the Jason train when he was a junior. Choo Choo!

 

[dorispulaski]

If you go to the Wayback machine and look at Jason's bio in Dec 2010, just before 2011 Nationals, Kori is listed as coach, and there is no choreographer listed. By July 2011, prior to his second JGP season, suddenly Rohene is listed as a choreographer. If that is in fact when Ro started seriously doing his choreo, it explains the Baliwood SP very well, especially the costume which is so Not a Rohene inspired blinged out look. The Baliwood program was not a seriously choreographed effort. It is Jason doing Jason tricks to some odd, indie band pseudo Latin music.

Now Rohene did set his programs (see this GS article from Summer 2011)
https://www.goldenskate.com/2011/07/brown-is-ready-for-anything-except-a-haircut/

But the other question is, what was Ro's schedule for show skating in Europe that season for Holiday on Ice? He might not have been around for the fall season to see things were not quite OK with that program.

From his bio, it looks like Ro was in a lot of shows in that time frame.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohene_Ward

I also noted in that SP that Jason could not keep up with the music in the usual way, (which is that when he is on, he hits all the beats). I still liked his fresh enthusiasm for the program though.






Absolutely, the JGPF SP is worlds more developed than the Nationals. I even love the costume.