- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
I can' see why he would be upset about it, but what does that have to do with the USFSA anyway? AFAIK that show wasn't affiliated with them (correct me if I'm wrong).
Johnny Weir Journal Update !
- Thread starter Geesesk8
- Start date
I can' see why he would be upset about it, but what does that have to do with the USFSA anyway? AFAIK that show wasn't affiliated with them (correct me if I'm wrong).
I haven't seen anyone "jumping all over" Evan for comments about Johnny. He usually get teased about his "masculinity" campaign or his "extreme sports" idea and his seeming ignorance about classical music.
Second of all, maybe more people laugh at Johnny's comments because unlike Evan's "Black=manly" routines, Johnny's comments are actually funny. And unlike Evan's "I want to save the skating world from sparkles" which could offend many other skaters, Johnny's comments are usually directed straight to the person he means-Evan.
Personally, I've never jumped all over Evan for his statements because they don't bother me. A lot of them just make him look ignorant, but they are not really offensive. Johnny's comments usually amuse me because they are smart-*** and funny.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
funny how people are just going to see what they want so that their skater looks better than his rival... no matter what.
they both have said stupid, ignorant things... but most will only see one as being 'bad' at it.
They're your stereotypical American Male... they're going to just continue suffering from foot-in-mouth disease.
they both have said stupid, ignorant things... but most will only see one as being 'bad' at it.
They're your stereotypical American Male... they're going to just continue suffering from foot-in-mouth disease.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Right or wrong, I think Weir gets a style break as his snark is generally funnier and smarter sounding than Lysacek's (IMO).
The movie premiere comment was clumsy and ungracious but then Weir hits pure gold with the Dior comments, I mean, what are the chances that Lysacek would ever understand them on his own?
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Perhaps but without a quad Joubert, Lambiel, Takahashi, and possibly Verner and Lysacek even, all could potentialy beat him even if he goes clean. Granted there are questions marks of some of those, big questions about Lambiel, can Verner build on his comeback performances at NHK and go even further (and possibly put the 2nd quad back in the long), how will Joubert recover from illness. Still it isnt out of question a number of those 5 will have it together when it matters.
Not doing a quad is very risky since there are as many as 5 guys who have a chance to beat him without one. He is still hoping enough of the best guys who do have quads have problems of some sort, which could happen, but still not a comfortable position from my perspective. At his GP events the only top skaters he met were the most inconsistent and sparatic of the quad contenders right now (Lambiel) and the guy with the lowest scoring potential of the quad contenders (Lysacek).
In short it is worrying to read in his journal he is not even planning on putting the quad in later and doesnt want to hear about it.
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I imagine it was when Johnny's name and picture were left off of all advertisements for the Spokane National championships. Johnny was the three times national champion yet his name or photo weren't included on the website or the print materials which were given out at the 2006 championships. I know a lot of people say it was the Spokane committee that made the mistake but ultimately the usfsa should be responsible for anything that is done in its name.
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I was looking over the scores from the GP 2007-8 series, and decided to make a notepad to compare them, as I looked forward to the GPF.
Daisuke Takahashi's highest total score in the GP was at the NHK. Some seem to think it was inflated, but let's take it as given: 234.22.
Johnny Weir's highest total score in the GP was at Cup of China: 231.78.
Pretty darn close. No one else made it to 230. Of course, Brian Joubert was not able to do his second GP assignment, but still, I think that it shows that Johnny and Dai are not *that* far apart.
Looking at the two scores of Dai and Johnny, Dai's highest at home (Japan) beats Johnny's highest, but Johnny's lowest (229.96, Cup of Russia) beats Dai's lowest ( 228.97, Skate America).
Because of the above, I am not too worried about Johnny competing without a quad. As long as he stays confident and keeps training the way he has, I feel he can make the podium without a quad.
Naturally, I'd love to see Johnny with both quad and triple axel, but if I have to choose, I'll take a male skater with a triple axel but no quad, over a skater with a quad but no triple axel any day.
Next season, I'd like to see fewer points given for merely making the rotations without landing them successfully. I feel this should be part of the continuing fine-tuning of CoP. I realize some sort of carrot has to be extended to the skater, to make him risk falling with its 1.00 deduction and interruption of his program, but I think the quad carrot is currently a little too fat. The sport is about blades on ice, after all, keeping one's balance on the thin blade. Whirling in the air without being able to make a balanced landing on the blade, hardly seems like skating at all. The ISU does not recognize the backflip, even when well landed, as a genuine skating move; why does it consider four aerial rotations without a capable landing on the ice as worthy of many points? This mystifies me. I am not in favor of allowing the backflip in competition; I just would like to see some adjustment in the rewarding of rotations that land with a crash.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I agree with everything in this post. :yes:
Is there a rule that says you have to wear skates? Think of how many points a gymnast or dancer or acrobat could rack up, just by going out in their stocking feet and twirling through the air. (Plus, you couldn't ding them with a "wrong edge" deduction.)
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Yikes! Warm feet on ice = major stickiness!!! and subsequent undignified falls on gymnast/dancer noses/asses (depending on how refined you want to be).
The point stands (as always) the quad is the enemy of good skating. That was my decision years ago and I've yet to see a skater that could make me change my mind (including Plushenko and Yagudin thank you).
But Johnny was clean, and Daisuke fell on the quad, which wasn't downgraded. That gives Daisuke about 5-6 point edge should both of them skate clean. This bothers me because I much prefer Johnny over Daisuke, but what can you do? Even if johnny's pcs goes up (it should go up), his jump contents do not match Daisuke's. Unlike Joubert, Daisuke's racking up points in non-jumping elements, so only quad can guarantee a win for Johnny.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
The Japanese men scores at NHK this year were reasonable. They were not last year, except for Takahashis LP; Odas SP, Odas LP, and Takahashis SP, were all homecooked scores last year; however this year Takahashi and the other Japanese were marked reasonably, redeeming themselves after the shameful scoring of last year. As for Daisukes scores he fell on his quad in the long and stepped out of his triple axel in the short, so he can still do alot better.
Gracious! Maybe I'm beginning to understand this CoP thing. Does it actually mean that every skater has an equal chance to win a competition based on his own special gift? A quirky skater (like Alban) could really win? A technically gifted skater could "quad" his way to victory? Or even an artistically gifted skater could be the gold medal winner with a beautifully skated program even without a quad? Each competition is a different day. No competitor knows when that quad will crash. And even without the quad a beautifully skated program could garner the highest point total of that particular day. Gee, this is beginning to sound like a truly fair system! And it seems to be saying that no skater's victory should be dissed because he didn't happen to throw in a quad. Darn! And I hated CoP (until now).
Imagine that, an equal chance at victory to every skater, what a concept!
Imagine that, an equal chance at victory to every skater, what a concept!
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Johnny had his triple axel downgraded to a double at Cup of Russia. He also could add a double toe to another jump. So he still could score higher also.
Johnny could also get higher marks in his straight line footwork, or make sure all his spin sequences are level 4..... Could go on and on, and this applies to all skaters.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
Maybe not on this board, but certanly on other boards this happens.
I don't find Johnny's comments funny at all, they just make him sound whiny.
I do recall that now, and that makes more sense. Thanks
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
...but not really. The guy with the quad controls his own destiny (as they used to say, LOL), while the artistic guy has to hope someone else falls.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
but that's always been that way - unless said artistic guy had an in with the judges - even when the artistic mark was the tie breaker, you still had to have the technical to back it up.
it's a sport... if artistry is more important than the technical then we might as well forget asking sports networks to pick up the option.
it's a sport... if artistry is more important than the technical then we might as well forget asking sports networks to pick up the option.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
A man with a single quad controls his own destiny if he's got 2-3A's, one in combination, and a couple of 2 Lz's and he skates clean and doesn't downgrade.
4T: 9
3A: 7.5
3A+3T: 7.5+4=11
3Lz: 6.5
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo=6.5+1.5+1.5=9.5
3Lo: 5.5
3F: 6
3S+2Lo: 4.5+1.3=6.8
A man without the quad can have the same program as the one-quad program less the quad plus a 2A (3.5), for a difference in base score of 5.5. A fall in that first program narrows the gap to 1.5, as does one 3A and one 2A, and a doubled flip or loop loses more or less the same, which a very clean quadless jumper can cover in TES,. Even Plushenko with a one-quad program didn't go completely clean or go without doubling (losing ~ 4 points). in every competition, and he was the most consistent jumper among the men. Yes, that's leaving one's fate in someone else's hands, but odds are low that many men in the field will attempt a quad and go clean in the FS.
A man with two quads and one 3A can have a similar program (could mean moving around the jumps at the end of the combos), which would raise the base score by 1.5.
A man with three quads and one 3A would raise the score by 3.5.
Since the value of PCS doubles in the LP, a man with a quad and high PCS is much bigger threat than a man with a quad and good, but not stellar PCS, if the quadless man and the man with quad go clean. The question becomes what kind of lift a man with a quad gets in PCS, especially if he's generally not stellar.
Without a quad, maximizing the jumping passes and jumping clean is the best strategy to be competitive with the quad men.
4T: 9
3A: 7.5
3A+3T: 7.5+4=11
3Lz: 6.5
3Lz+2Lo+2Lo=6.5+1.5+1.5=9.5
3Lo: 5.5
3F: 6
3S+2Lo: 4.5+1.3=6.8
A man without the quad can have the same program as the one-quad program less the quad plus a 2A (3.5), for a difference in base score of 5.5. A fall in that first program narrows the gap to 1.5, as does one 3A and one 2A, and a doubled flip or loop loses more or less the same, which a very clean quadless jumper can cover in TES,. Even Plushenko with a one-quad program didn't go completely clean or go without doubling (losing ~ 4 points). in every competition, and he was the most consistent jumper among the men. Yes, that's leaving one's fate in someone else's hands, but odds are low that many men in the field will attempt a quad and go clean in the FS.
A man with two quads and one 3A can have a similar program (could mean moving around the jumps at the end of the combos), which would raise the base score by 1.5.
A man with three quads and one 3A would raise the score by 3.5.
Since the value of PCS doubles in the LP, a man with a quad and high PCS is much bigger threat than a man with a quad and good, but not stellar PCS, if the quadless man and the man with quad go clean. The question becomes what kind of lift a man with a quad gets in PCS, especially if he's generally not stellar.
Without a quad, maximizing the jumping passes and jumping clean is the best strategy to be competitive with the quad men.
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Does "I will say I don't have a stitch of Dior. The House of Christian Dior was made famous by using a more voluptuous silhouette after World War II and is a bit too 'masculine' for me" sound whiny? How? I wouldn't categorize most of Johnny's pokes at Evan as whiny. The Russian Award comment, somewhat whiny, yes, but the whine-iness aspect of this comment is more about the federation's actions than it is about Evan or Kimmie themselves.
I don't think the humor and biasness (definitely a part of it too. Although the biasness goes both ways.) is the only reason that people have more of a positive reaction to Johnny's comments. Another reason is that some people do feel irritated when someone, whether Evan or Mark Lund, punches such a significance on the necessity of more masculinity in skating. I like Evan and I know he means nothing by it, but that type of thinking still irritates me. The response is similar to how you feel a little angry when a jock pokes fun at a nerd (boo!), and when a nerd pokes fun at a jock (yay!), it doesn't feel quite as bad. Not to say that it isn't, but it's a natural reaction to root for the side that expounds your beliefs.
My impression about the comments by Lysacek and Weir is, that Lysacek gets negative response mostly because skating fans imagine / purposefully are searching for some hidden meanings behind his words. Weir on the other hand gets away with his deliberately not-so-nice comments... Here´s an example:
Blades On Ice / June 2007, p. 79 (COI tour)
"It´s a beautiful painful song", said Weir about his solo. "Things have been kind of painful, I wanted to do something that meant something. A lot of people do exhibition numbers that don´t mean anything using music that just happens to be popular. But there´s a depth in mine, much more real feeling. It´s therapy."
Blades On Ice / June 2007, p. 79 (COI tour)
"It´s a beautiful painful song", said Weir about his solo. "Things have been kind of painful, I wanted to do something that meant something. A lot of people do exhibition numbers that don´t mean anything using music that just happens to be popular. But there´s a depth in mine, much more real feeling. It´s therapy."
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