Joshua Farris Withdraws from 2014 Cup of China

[karne]

After seeing Max's SP at Skate Canada....I think maybe some of you should rethink your podium. Sadly, same with Adam!

I can understand this for Adam, but not for Max. Max landed all his jumps - he popped the 3T in the combo, but he does that semi-regularly (too much free hip). He did put his hands down on the 3A which is a weird mistake for him, but not a usual one. I think Max put out a solid performance at this time of the season. *shrugs* I'm more looking forward to Gladiator tomorrow.

 

[Tavi...]

It's best not to reference Tara for anything, mainly!

Gosh, why is that - because in your opinion a) she needs glasses; b) she lacks the ability to assess jumps; or c) she doesn't provide incisive commentary? Given that Jason is frequently criticized for having small jumps, the salient point is whether he indeed executed a good 3A, not who made the comment.

 

[mrrice]

It's best not to reference Tara for anything, mainly!

Clearly I have missed something in reference to Tara. I certainly don't have a big opinion one way or the other however, she sure gets slammed a lot by some people in this forum. Now, since I believe most posters on this forum are well educated, what's the deal with Tara?

I know she tends to reference herself when commentating but, you reference what you know. At least in the beginning. I admit that I haven't heard her yet this season so, I'll have to wait and see.

 

[Icey]

during the chippawa falls broadcast of the yearly bingo-for-the-elderly contest, susan commented that old marv hadn't been playing this well since his early 70's.

lmao, rotfl

 

[gravy]

I'm sure Joshua himself would much rather be packing his bags for China next week than rehabbing his ankle. But clearly this is just something he will have to deal with, and come out strong at NHK. He needs to beat Jeremy there to make sure he's considered a contender. (He's beaten Jeremy before, so we know this is possible.)

My ideal Nationals podium keeps changing, but I've narrowed it down to two options:

1. Joshua
2. Max
3. Jason

or

1. Max
2. Joshua
3. Jason

(Jason can afford the bronze because he's got the rep and popularity already. I feel like Max has to finish in that top two to force people to acknowledge he's not the devil, and Josh needs to finish top two to shed this invisibility cloak thing he's got going on.)

Do you (or anyone else) think Jeremy will go to Worlds this year? I'm just wondering because that whole Wagner over Nagasu debacle for Sochi got me thinking. If someone's entire body of work is used to determine athletes to be sent internationally, would that be justification to prevent Jeremy from being chosen even if he does well at Nationals?

I mean, he usually skates brilliantly in domestic competitions, but once he skates against international competitors... he crumbles. And this is not a one-time, a two-time, or even just a three-time thing. It always happens.

 

[Jammers]

Jeremy just needs to retire he's not even winning medals on the GP anymore. I'm sure he'll get it together at Nationals and probably finish top 3 which i hope he doesn't because he doesn't have a prayer of winning a medal at Worlds. I can't see them pulling a Wagner and putting him on the team over someone else considering he doesn't win anything internationally and hasn't for years.

 

[karne]

Do you (or anyone else) think Jeremy will go to Worlds this year? I'm just wondering because that whole Wagner over Nagasu debacle for Sochi got me thinking. If someone's entire body of work is used to determine athletes to be sent internationally, would that be justification to prevent Jeremy from being chosen even if he does well at Nationals?

I mean, he usually skates brilliantly in domestic competitions, but once he skates against international competitors... he crumbles. And this is not a one-time, a two-time, or even just a three-time thing. It always happens.

I'm not getting into this. I said outright at the beginning of last season that no matter what happened at Nationals they should not put Jeremy on the Olympic team and I got howled down for it. I still believe in it.

 

[gravy]

Jeremy just needs to retire he's not even winning medals on the GP anymore. I'm sure he'll get it together at Nationals and probably finish top 3 which i hope he doesn't because he doesn't have a prayer of winning a medal at Worlds. I can't see them pulling a Wagner and putting him on the team over someone else considering he doesn't win anything internationally and hasn't for years.

I meant "pulling a Wagner" in the sense of putting someone on the team ranked lower than Jeremy at Nationals.

I'm not getting into this. I said outright at the beginning of last season that no matter what happened at Nationals they should not put Jeremy on the Olympic team and I got howled down for it. I still believe in it.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Jammers]

Best thing is if the US Men get their **** together at Nationals and push Jeremy down to about 5th. I think he would see the handwriting on the wall and finally retire since Nationals is about the only event he does well at anymore.

 

[Meoima]

Best thing is if the US Men get their **** together at Nationals and push Jeremy down to about 5th. I think he would see the handwriting on the wall and finally retire since Nationals is about the only event he does well at anymore.

That's not nice.
I mean I an not a fan but if Jeremy wants to try his best let him do. If he happens to be better on others that days then he's just better. It's just one competition.
And that's what competitions are for.

 

[karne]

That's not nice.
I mean I an not a fan but if Jeremy wants to try his best let him do. If he happens to be better on others that days then he's just better. It's just one competition.
And that's what competitions are for.

The issue is that it's not "just one". If he wins Nationals, he goes to Worlds, where he will bomb.

 

[alebi]

The issue is that it's not "just one". If he wins Nationals, he goes to Worlds, where he will bomb.

And in that case he'll not be the first and not even the last to bomb at Worlds (for ex. Bradley). So I don't get why people are so harsh about Jeremy. And on the other hand: Brown has not the tech merits to challenge the first positions, Farris can bomb too and still need to make a name in the world of FS, Aaron is un-watchable (and last year he was worse than Jeremy), Carriere is on the same level of the other US skaters, Rippon is losing everything.... Dornbush can bomb, Miner is pretty blah... who else? And if I'm not wrong US men will have 3 spots for next Worlds and they only have to thanks Jeremy for this. So why Jeremy can't be in the team? What can he bring worse than others? I don't understand... :think:

 

[karne]

And in that case he'll not be the first and not even the last to bomb at Worlds (for ex. Bradley). So I don't get why people are so harsh about Jeremy. And on the other hand: Brown has not the tech merits to challenge the first positions, Farris can bomb too and still need to make a name in the world of FS, Aaron is un-watchable (and last year he was worse than Jeremy), Carriere is on the same level of the other US skaters, Rippon is losing everything.... Dornbush can bomb, Miner is pretty blah... who else? And if I'm not wrong US men will have 3 spots for next Worlds and they only have to thanks Jeremy for this. So why Jeremy can't be in the team? What can he bring worse than others? I don't understand... :think:

*sigh* People are harsh about Jeremy because it happens every time - whatever big championship event is after Nationals he bombs.

And Max unwatchable? Well, sucks to be you, you're missing out. Worse than Jeremy? Actually, their GP results were more or less the same. And whether people like you like it or not, Max is also responsible for there being three spots on that Worlds team.

 

[alebi]

Actually, their GP results were more or less the same. And whether people like you like it or not, Max is also responsible for there being three spots on that Worlds team.

"Their results were more or less the same" so why Aaron yes and Jeremy not? "They are both responsible for 3 spots" so again why Aaron yes and Jeremy not?

I'm not interested in turning the thread into a Aaron vs Abbot discussion, in fact I mentioned 6-7 skaters, not only Max. I was just asking, considering 3 spots, which US skater is totally and absolutely better than Jeremy and sure to do a better show at Worlds. I would say that US has a bunch of good male skaters but honestly no one is already at the level of top competitors and Jeremy can be still important for the team because, even in a bad exhibition, at least his artistry can always bring him a little up.

I'm still devastated from 2011 results, when the federation sent Bradley (a "zero hope" skater who did the competition of his life at nationals) + two too young (at that time) skaters, without an international name and without the assurance to do well. And that was the beginning of the hardest time for US male skaters. I hope the fed won't do the same mistake and waste again the 3 spots. I think Aaron is important for his technical aspects, Jeremy is important for his artistry, and one between Brown or Farris is important because they're the future and need to show their talent at Worlds without the responsibility to be the one who has to hold the flag high.

 

[karne]

*tired sigh* I'm not getting into this. Not again. Jeremy is a beautiful skater - when he's on. But the fact is that he's off more often than he's on. And he's always off immediately after an "on" Nationals. We've seen it time and again.

I've said what I want the World team to be. I've said what I want the podium to be. I have three favourite US skaters and that's what my podiums are predicted on. And I'm still trying to work out why a simple thread about Joshua withdrawing from CoC has turned into yet another brawl over the American men.

But I am not, and will not ever, just sit by and let someone dismiss Max as unwatchable. Because at least, he TRIES.

 

[alebi]

I also want to add a thing which can open an interesting discussion. Next Worlds will be strategical for men because, due to retirements, injuries and year-off, only Japan has the certainty to keep their spots. Russia still need to understand which are its best international skaters, Canada is suffering from Chan's absence and has put all his hope in a 16 years old, European countries are struggling (with the exception of Javier), KAZ has only one good skater.... So China and US, if they plan the best strategy, can do really well and, especially USA, doesn't need to have a super jumper in this particular situation.

Let's say 3 japanese men + Fernandez are in a league of their own but then? Ten is always good when it counts but do you have the certainty it will always be?
Then we have RUS with Kovtun + Menshov/Pitkeev/Voronov, FRA with Amodio+Besseghier, CZE with Brezina+??, CAN with Nguyen + Reyonolds/Balde and all the others who, for a reason or another, have the same possibilities of US skaters. That's why I think a well-balanced team can still make a good impression and keep the 3 spots.

 

[karne]

That's why I think a well-balanced team can still make a good impression and keep the 3 spots.

Yes. A well-balanced team. So perhaps, a pure aggressive athlete who throws himself into the air and always, ALWAYS lands on his feet. And then an artist, an artist who can jump and make you cry while doing so. And the performer, the one who does not necessarily have all the jumps but will always score high because he performs so well. All young, all fresh, all ready to go round another quad and aim for 2018. Sounds fine to me.

 

[alebi]

But I am not, and will not ever, just sit by and let someone dismiss Max as unwatchable. Because at least, he TRIES.

Maybe I was a bit cruel with my comment (de gustibus) but for the same reason I don't understand why people focus on Jeremy saying he should retire, given the US situation right now. It's obvious that we want to see our favourite skaters at Worlds and also doing well, my dream team should have Jason and Josh for example. But I'm also aware that it can be too risky for US fed to bring a totally new and young team (especially because Josh still need to show costantly at senior level). And it's also obvious that if the team will be Aaron + Josh + Jason and they'll do well at Worlds I'll be the first person to be happy, no matter if Abbott was there or not. I just don't get why everybody is saying Jeremy sucks.

 

[alebi]

a pure aggressive athlete who throws himself into the air and always, ALWAYS lands on his feet.

Aaron

And the performer, the one who does not necessarily have all the jumps but will always score high because he performs so well.

Brown

And then an artist, an artist who can jump and make you cry while doing so

And that's interesting because US is missing this (an artist who CAN jump) right now or maybe this can fit more than one skater in an ideal situation. I'm sure you're referring to Josh but unfortunately he's living a long-time bad situation, still need to make a name at senior level, still need to prove he has everything with certainty.
But this description also fits Abbott. Who struggles but who's also capable of doing great (see last Worlds) and above all has a PCS cushion which can't be underestimate (and honestly needs to give up on extreme technical aspects if he wants to finish 5-8 at Worlds)


So a well-balanced team, for me, has the two first skaters and then one between Jeremy or Josh (and I'm not biased because I'm a fan of both). I don't see any other US skater who has the same potential right now, that's why I want to understand why Jeremy has to retire and let a spot to Dornbush/Miner/Carriere/Rippon etc... on the chance that Josh is still not 100% recovered and 100% certain to do the program of his life at Worlds (Josh or any other of the two skaters I mentioned above)

 

[balletanddancefan]

Aaron



Brown



And that's interesting because US is missing this (an artist who CAN jump) right now or maybe this can fit more than one skater in an ideal situation. I'm sure you're referring to Josh but unfortunately he's living a long-time bad situation, still need to make a name at senior level, still need to prove he has everything with certainty.
But this description also fits Abbott. Who struggles but who's also capable of doing great (see last Worlds) and above all has a PCS cushion which can't be underestimate


So a well-balanced team, for me, has the two first skaters and then one between Jeremy or Josh (and I'm not biased because I'm a fan of both). I don't see any other US skater who has the same potential right now, that's why I want to understand why Jeremy has to retire and let a spot to Dornbush/Miner/Carriere/Rippon etc... on the chance that Josh is still not 100% recovered and 100% certain to do the program of his life at Worlds (Josh or any other of the two skaters I mentioned above)

I respect very much Jeremy. But he is bigger than 7-10 years of young skaters (Max, Joshua, Jason and so on.) He has more 7-10 years of experience, routin, but ultimately this is not seen as a result of the competitions. As for the nerves, he seems a very-very young . And I don't think that will change. I think a skater to thirty years, with the result of recent years should retire to the competitions, and dance only to the shows - to the delight of the audience.