- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
So when did the Yu-Na camp want the separation made public? Next year's Worlds?
Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged
- Thread starter alfoalfo
- Start date
So when did the Yu-Na camp want the separation made public? Next year's Worlds?
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
:scratch: Really? I can't believe you people.
It's a way of stealing someone's thunder, at the least. It's YuNa's, or the friend's, right to say or reveal when they want.
I wouldn't want talky friends, especially those who brag about me or my things on my behalf.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
My ex-friends have always been about 100 times more restrained and tactful than Orser is being at the moment.I think he meant that ex-friends usually say the worst once being EX
And I wouldn't appreciate a friend talk-talk-talking about something wonderful and great I have planned coming up, let alone an ex-friend. They really should know it's not theirs to talk about.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
No big deal legally. But I guess it's a skating world's unwritten approach and agreement to everyone who is in it. If you want to play this game, you need to play this way. I believe Brian would regret for the slip even though it wasn't in bad intention. It can be called unprofessional. That's why David Wilson was astonished.
There is NO mention of legal actions in ATS's statement. It's probably from a dramatic Korean articles written to get more view than the other that got translated by Google lol As far as I remember the title of the article was legal action but the article itself didn't mention it.
"We strongly urge Mr. Orser to put an end to the unfounded claims and refrain from disclosing confidential information about Yu-Na Kim's future competition plans" doesn't sound like legal action to me.
Source: http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=490379.html#orser+breaks+cardinal+rule
"We strongly urge Mr. Orser to put an end to the unfounded claims and refrain from disclosing confidential information about Yu-Na Kim's future competition plans" doesn't sound like legal action to me.
Source: http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=490379.html#orser+breaks+cardinal+rule
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- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
Every once in a while someone needs to step in and make this point... There is a very easy probable explanation for the discrepancies in the Mao story..Someone connected to Mao ( either closely or remotely )may have decided on their own to "test the waters ", "go fishing" and just see if Brian would be willing to take her on..not making an official offer.. I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time..Esp. someone representing a high profile athlete might want to have an idea whether or not the plan would be accepted, before they make it public , or even before they propose it to their own client.
In that case Mao's people can deny it since it wasn't an official offer..Mao in fact may have known nothing about it..Brian was approached ,but now that it's clear it wasn't an official offer he can honestly say to CTV that he wasn't approached..
The music thing surprised me though...
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- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Here's a better question for me to ask.
Would you have been completely comfortable doing the same, were you YuNa's ex-coach? Described YuNa's new music and its program in exactly the same terms, in the same context?
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I saw this in a Korean Herald article at Blazing Blades today:
http://www.blazingblades.com/
"Figure skater Kim Yu-na will deal with a “level of management” if her ex-coach Brian Orser continues making “inappropriate remarks” to the media, said AT Sports, Kim’s agency, on Thursday.
I know AT Sports has difficulty with translations but what do you think this was supposed to mean?
If I am wrong, sorry and please don't "level of management" me.
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- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Thank you for your thoughtful comments on Brian’s feelings, and your thoughts that his active dealings with the media was never on a personal level.
I do agree that Brian’s major criticism was focused on his treatment by the team. But some of his statements toward Yuna and her mom, had been, in my perception, purposely, knowingly made to harm their credibility and reputation.
For instance, Brian insists that Yuna had no say in their split and it was all her evil mother’s decision. Yuna refuted this claim both in her twitt and in her Cyworld statement. I did not find anything purposeful and malicious on Yuna’s statements to harm Brian. It seemed to be a genuine response of an anguished teenager whose mom was unfairly (in her perception) attacked.
I may be slightly biased and in favor of Yuna’s side of the story(or you may say immensely
Wow, you are so polite and your response is so nicely worded. How can I argue with you? I must thank you for even taking the time to read my post.
Still, I would like to point out my feeling, if I may, that Brian suggested (I don't think he ever insisted based on the published interviews. Can you quote from his words that he insisted?) it was Yuna's mother's decision because he was in denial--he could not believe someone he loves would reject him. Even so, he never branded the mother in a personal level as "evil". He criticized how they did business but not the character as a person.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
Someone connected to Mao ( either closely or remotely )may have decided on their own to "test the waters ", "go fishing" and just see if Brian would be willing to take her on..not making an official offer.. I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time..Esp. someone representing a high profile athlete might want to have an idea whether or not the plan would be accepted, before they make it public , or even before they propose it to their own client.
In that case Mao's people can deny it since it wasn't an official offer..Mao in fact may have known nothing about it..Brian was approached ,but now that it's clear it wasn't an official offer he can honestly say to CTV that he wasn't approached..
From the language used in the direct quotes of Mao's agent, Mao, as well as IBS, there doesn't seem to have been even any 'testing of the waters' or 'fishing' at all. Of course, all these parties could have chosen to hide the fact that they did 'test the water' and 'fish' and chosen unequivocal phrasing.
This then begs the question, why would Mao's agent, Mao or IBS have any thought of even 'testing the water' and 'go fishing' for Brian. It's very clear that Mao wants to stay in Japan, Brian would never come to Japan to coach Mao, so it's not even remotely possible that Mao would want Brian, and so Mao's agent would not ask Brian. Given that it was clearly unlikely that Brian would not come to Japan, why would anyone at IBS ask either?
Your suggestion that someone on Team Mao 'tested the water' and 'went fishing' for Brian is theoretically possible, but is highly, highly improbable, particularly as it has been denied with strong language by Mao's agent, Mao as well as IBS, and is circumstantially improbable.
I saw this in a Korean Herald article at Blazing Blades today:
"Figure skater Kim Yu-na will deal with a “level of management” if her ex-coach Brian Orser continues making “inappropriate remarks” to the media, said AT Sports, Kim’s agency, on Thursday.
I know AT Sports has difficulty with translations but what do you think this was supposed to mean?
If I am wrong, sorry and please don't "level of management" me.
As scary as it may sound, "level of management" is a totally different concept from filing an actual legal claim against her former coach Brian. The reasonable explanation would be that by now on, Yuna will be receiving legal consultation from a lawyer, her new "level of management."
I am personally glad to have heard this statement since it seemed Yuna's camp was seriously lacking in legal personnels while Brian's camp (or just him) already had a lawyer prepared before the public mess was started.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2010
Airirang is a beautiful beautiful piece of music. Probably intended as some symbolic gesture to her native Korea.
NY Phil Harmonic in North Korea (LoL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-OUt3IFlzk
Vocal by Ri Kyon Suk? (Somehow I think Orser will be using something closer to the link above then the one below although who knows)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlXH9CGnvw&feature=related
Orser crashed the party. That isn't debatable. Given their previous silence on such things during competition seasons, I think Orser either:
1) got carried away while talking and trying to show he has no malicious intention towards Yuna and then made a mistake because it ended up having the same consequence.
2) did it on purpose and tried to hide it behind a mask of compliment.
I tend to think the former because his mouth was running it seemed out of a desire to be right (ultimately out of his hurt).
I just want to point out that:
Brian could easily have said "lets make a joint statement" to Yuna's team. He DIDN'T. Aka why ATS was not expecting the statement. If ATS released a statement prior to Brian, it would just be the same thing all over again. He said. She said. So this is NOT about who didn't release a statement. Brian could have said "my contract with Yuna is terminated and we were unable to get a joint statement about this." He did the opposite. Hurt is understandable. But I don't think there's a need to defend whether his actions were right. Excusable yes. Right? Erm.
I really don't care who's guilty at this point, but I feel that its a good thing Brian stopped talking (wished he'd stopped before this). This is impinging on David Wilson's professionalism which is NOT involved with Yuna or Orser. Who will come to choreograph with Wilson before the program is complete if someone at the Cricket Club describes it (again I think it wasn't malicious and it was reason 1 because I hate to think it was reason 2. That's based on an both an emotional gut response I suppose and also because I genuinely believe Orser isn't malicious and I believe his character).
(Edit: David Wilson commenting on Yuna's twitter is different from commenting on something that is regarding his own professionalism. I'm wondering if David Wilson had a talk with Brian and that's the reason why Brian isn't talking anymore.)
Still. Let ATS run its mouth a bit. Orser stay quiet man, for your own sake. ATS is already at the bottom of the pile. It can't go lower.
Urgh the whole thing is so ugly compared to the music.
The lyrics for the song. Translated from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arirang
I. Arirang
Refrain:
Arirang, Arirang, Arariyo,
Arirang Pass is the long road you go.
후렴:
아리랑 아리랑 아라리요
아리랑 고개로 넘어간다.
1st Verse:
If you leave and forsake me, my own,
Ere three miles you go, lame you'll have grown.
2nd Verse:
Wondrous time, happy time—let us delay;
Till night is over, go not away.
3rd Verse:
Arirang Mount is my Tear-Falling Hill,
So seeking my love, I cannot stay still.
4th Verse:
The brightest of stars stud the sky so blue;
Deep in my bosom burns bitterest rue.
5th Verse:
Man's heart is like water streaming downhill;
Woman's heart is well water—so deep and still.
6th Verse:
Young men's love is like pinecones seeming sound,
But when the wind blows, they fall to the ground.
7th Verse:
Birds in the morning sing simply to eat;
Birds in the evening sing for love sweet.
8th Verse:
When man has attained to the age of a score,
The mind of a woman should be his love.
9th Verse:
The trees and the flowers will bloom for aye,
But the glories of youth will soon fade away.
II. Miryang Arirang
1st Verse:
Look on me! Look on me! Look on me!
In midwinter, when you see a flower, please think of me!
Chorus: Ari-arirang! Ssuri-Ssurirang! Arariga nanne!
O'er Arirang Pass I long to cross today.
2nd Verse:
Moonkyung Bird Pass has too many curves--
Winding up, winding down, in tears I go.
3rd Verse:
Carry me, carry me, carry me and go!
When flowers bloom in Hanyang, carry me and go.
Note: Bird Pass or "Saejae" is the summit of a high mountain, rising north of Moonkyung in the ancient highway, linking Seoul with Miryang and Tongnae (Pusan). Its sky-kissing heights are so rugged that in their eyes. This is a love song of a dancing girl from Miryang who was left behind by her lover from Seoul (Hanyang). She is calling him to take her with him to Hanyang. She believed that her own beauty was above all flowers in Hanyang. The words in the first line of the chorus are sounds of bitter sorrow at parting. This song was composed by Kim Dong Jin.
III. Gangwon Arirang
1st Verse:
Castor and camelia, bear no beans!
Deep mountain fair maidens would go a-flirting.
Chorus: Ari-Ari, Ssuri-Ssuri, Arariyo!
Ari-Ari Pass I cross and go.
2nd Verse:
Though I pray, my soya field yet will bear no beans;
Castor and camelia, why should you bear beans?
3rd Verse:
When I broke the hedge bush stem, you said you'd come away;
At your doorway I stamp my feet, why do you delay?
4th Verse:
Precious in the mountains are darae and moroo;
Honey sweet to you and me would be our love so true.
5th Verse:
Come to me! Come to me! Come and join me!
In a castor and camelia garden we'll meet, my love!
Note: The highland maids would like to make up their hair with castor and camelia oils and go love-making instead of going to work in the soya-bean fields. Moroo is a mountain grape; darae is a banana-shaped fruit with black seeds studded in its flesh. These are precious foods to mountain folk. The song is sarcastic, but emotional to comfort the fair solitary reapers who go about gathering the wild fruits in the deep mountains of Kangwon-do.
NY Phil Harmonic in North Korea (LoL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-OUt3IFlzk
Vocal by Ri Kyon Suk? (Somehow I think Orser will be using something closer to the link above then the one below although who knows)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlXH9CGnvw&feature=related
Orser crashed the party. That isn't debatable. Given their previous silence on such things during competition seasons, I think Orser either:
1) got carried away while talking and trying to show he has no malicious intention towards Yuna and then made a mistake because it ended up having the same consequence.
2) did it on purpose and tried to hide it behind a mask of compliment.
I tend to think the former because his mouth was running it seemed out of a desire to be right (ultimately out of his hurt).
I just want to point out that:
Brian could easily have said "lets make a joint statement" to Yuna's team. He DIDN'T. Aka why ATS was not expecting the statement. If ATS released a statement prior to Brian, it would just be the same thing all over again. He said. She said. So this is NOT about who didn't release a statement. Brian could have said "my contract with Yuna is terminated and we were unable to get a joint statement about this." He did the opposite. Hurt is understandable. But I don't think there's a need to defend whether his actions were right. Excusable yes. Right? Erm.
I really don't care who's guilty at this point, but I feel that its a good thing Brian stopped talking (wished he'd stopped before this). This is impinging on David Wilson's professionalism which is NOT involved with Yuna or Orser. Who will come to choreograph with Wilson before the program is complete if someone at the Cricket Club describes it (again I think it wasn't malicious and it was reason 1 because I hate to think it was reason 2. That's based on an both an emotional gut response I suppose and also because I genuinely believe Orser isn't malicious and I believe his character).
(Edit: David Wilson commenting on Yuna's twitter is different from commenting on something that is regarding his own professionalism. I'm wondering if David Wilson had a talk with Brian and that's the reason why Brian isn't talking anymore.)
Still. Let ATS run its mouth a bit. Orser stay quiet man, for your own sake. ATS is already at the bottom of the pile. It can't go lower.
Urgh the whole thing is so ugly compared to the music.
The lyrics for the song. Translated from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arirang
I. Arirang
Refrain:
Arirang, Arirang, Arariyo,
Arirang Pass is the long road you go.
후렴:
아리랑 아리랑 아라리요
아리랑 고개로 넘어간다.
1st Verse:
If you leave and forsake me, my own,
Ere three miles you go, lame you'll have grown.
2nd Verse:
Wondrous time, happy time—let us delay;
Till night is over, go not away.
3rd Verse:
Arirang Mount is my Tear-Falling Hill,
So seeking my love, I cannot stay still.
4th Verse:
The brightest of stars stud the sky so blue;
Deep in my bosom burns bitterest rue.
5th Verse:
Man's heart is like water streaming downhill;
Woman's heart is well water—so deep and still.
6th Verse:
Young men's love is like pinecones seeming sound,
But when the wind blows, they fall to the ground.
7th Verse:
Birds in the morning sing simply to eat;
Birds in the evening sing for love sweet.
8th Verse:
When man has attained to the age of a score,
The mind of a woman should be his love.
9th Verse:
The trees and the flowers will bloom for aye,
But the glories of youth will soon fade away.
II. Miryang Arirang
1st Verse:
Look on me! Look on me! Look on me!
In midwinter, when you see a flower, please think of me!
Chorus: Ari-arirang! Ssuri-Ssurirang! Arariga nanne!
O'er Arirang Pass I long to cross today.
2nd Verse:
Moonkyung Bird Pass has too many curves--
Winding up, winding down, in tears I go.
3rd Verse:
Carry me, carry me, carry me and go!
When flowers bloom in Hanyang, carry me and go.
Note: Bird Pass or "Saejae" is the summit of a high mountain, rising north of Moonkyung in the ancient highway, linking Seoul with Miryang and Tongnae (Pusan). Its sky-kissing heights are so rugged that in their eyes. This is a love song of a dancing girl from Miryang who was left behind by her lover from Seoul (Hanyang). She is calling him to take her with him to Hanyang. She believed that her own beauty was above all flowers in Hanyang. The words in the first line of the chorus are sounds of bitter sorrow at parting. This song was composed by Kim Dong Jin.
III. Gangwon Arirang
1st Verse:
Castor and camelia, bear no beans!
Deep mountain fair maidens would go a-flirting.
Chorus: Ari-Ari, Ssuri-Ssuri, Arariyo!
Ari-Ari Pass I cross and go.
2nd Verse:
Though I pray, my soya field yet will bear no beans;
Castor and camelia, why should you bear beans?
3rd Verse:
When I broke the hedge bush stem, you said you'd come away;
At your doorway I stamp my feet, why do you delay?
4th Verse:
Precious in the mountains are darae and moroo;
Honey sweet to you and me would be our love so true.
5th Verse:
Come to me! Come to me! Come and join me!
In a castor and camelia garden we'll meet, my love!
Note: The highland maids would like to make up their hair with castor and camelia oils and go love-making instead of going to work in the soya-bean fields. Moroo is a mountain grape; darae is a banana-shaped fruit with black seeds studded in its flesh. These are precious foods to mountain folk. The song is sarcastic, but emotional to comfort the fair solitary reapers who go about gathering the wild fruits in the deep mountains of Kangwon-do.
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ITA and I think you mean IMG not IBS.
Well, I thought I'd stay out of this but that email drags me in here.
In his private email to Yuna that Orser revealed publicly, you can read quite a few things.
(And here, assuming the email wasn't fabricated nor edited.)
1. He wishes Yuna to be in touch, he even uses "all the kids" to support this persuasion, which tells us that he was at least not contacted, if not ignored, by the end of April.
2. He seems worried of the possibility that Yuna may feel the "rumours" might turn out true, even though he does not yet know whether she has heard of it or not.
3. He tries to verify that the "rumours" are not groundless by saying "her agency did inquire about me ( and team ) working with her, I told them that you are my first priority."
4. By saying that he was flattered by the "inquiry", he alludes, intended or not, that he has a second choice if Yuna goes away from him.
5. He writes that he wants to tell Yuna "how this all happened" but doesn't go into details at this point.
.....
If I were Yuna, I would sense something wierd in here.
I would take this as Orser making sure that the rumours reach me, in form of his email.
I would feel that my coach for 4 years might now be selling himself to me citing Mao.
I would have thought that he should write to me simply saying "Don't believe the rumours, I am loyal to you", instead of saying "I have to say that I was flattered she has an interest" and "I wanted to contact you and tell you how this all happened."
Why would I want to hear how that all happened?
Well these are my very narrow-minded view, I know.
BTW, like everyone knows and wrote, Mao doesn't like to train abroad longterm. She wants to be trained in Nagoya. That was the main reason the relation with Arthunian ended. Maybe Yuna knew it well while Orser didn't .... or forgot? We'll eventually know.
If Brian just made it up to get an upper hand in terms of negotiating the new salary or even pressure Yuna into making a decision without actually saying it (just like what he is doing right now, sabotage disguised by courtesy and compliment), I understand why Yuna and her team had a problem with this. Yuna always said the TRUST is what is holding them together and if she felt that trust is somehow broken or found herself having second thoughts and doubts about their relationship, then she should say goodbye to Brian and move on. Of course, she doesn't want to reveal that to the public and I support her in that decision.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2010
Releasing the email = twitter. They're shooting themselves first and then each other. As painful as it is to watch, I suppose they're not going to listen to counsel. Too much emotion. Understandably. The irony of the song hits me so hard right now.
My thoughts exactly
The truth will reveal itself in due time. We will see which side was telling a lie in this matter, Brian or Mao.- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
Orser didn't tell just his friends. He told the whole world, publicly. Bad analogy.
Actually, he attacked YuNa's mother.
What if Orser was lying about something? Then she should be able to defend her mother and call him out on it.
One-sided, much?
Yes. YuNa broke up the coaching deal with Brian for absolutely no good reasons at all...that sounds logical.
I don't mean reasons for seperation. I meant they don't have good reasons to justify their unprofessional approach when firing a coach, not a regular coach, but a coach that put his sole and heart in and contributed significantly to Yuna's success. And it is this perceived disrespectful, insensitive approach that really hurt Brian.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Fisrt, I really do think you are in the minority if you don't want your friends -- ex or otherwise -- to gush about your upcoming art show.
As for what I would have done... OK, so we are assuming that I was a teacher and had the most wonderful student in the world. That this student, under my direction, had achieved the pinnacle of distinction in our discipline. That I really, really liked this person and wished every happiness for her.
And then that somehow or other everything went sour and I found myself in the midst of a most unpleasant and unsought brouhaha...
I think I might say something like, "Yu-na is a terrific skater. I saw her LP in practice the other day. It's to the tune of Korean folk music. David really came up with a gem. It's quite a departure from her usual style and she really reaches new heights. I am so sorry for all this confusion and bad feeling. and I hope that we will be able to repair the bridges in the future."
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