Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[Layfan]

I'm playing catch up on this unfortunate situation, trying to piece together the sequence of events here. But it seems like Yuna's management threw the fist public punch with that statement things had been tense since May? Before that there was only a restrained statement from Orser's management announcing the decision, correct? (Although that statement did snarkily note that no reason had been given for the dismissal.)

And then, Kim comes out and says she knows the reason but doesn't want to say only to have her management company come out an imply they were angry that Orser revealed the music of her long program, correct? I really don't know anything about the insides of the skating world. But is it really that astonishing that he would do that? Do you guys think David Wilson was as upset about it as the Yuna's management implied?

 

[colleen o'neill]

( That's a sort of a jaundiced eye )...maybe some of what's being left unsaid , what's rankling behind the scenes is mentioned by a poster at FSU . Brian renewed his contract with his long time agent in April. Ms.Park formed her agency after World's. Earlier in the year, Brian had been involved in the planning of Yuna's shows in the States. Suddenly , he's not..and his emails are not being answered. People have posted here, and elsewhere.. complaining that Brian's other students have signed with IMG...

To me, that's an interesting angle that hasn't been focused on too much. Everyone gets caught up in the emotional aspect of the relationship between Y & B . So $$ can be playing a big part here...not the relatively modest amount that Brian makes from coaching Yuna , but the $$ ATS hopes to make ,and muscles it hopes to flex ,in the future. probably ATS envisioned being able to scoop Brian ,his other students, and who knows who else away from IMG, and may see his reluctance to put himself under their management as some sort of betrayal .

People on the forums have said that Sports representation is not the big deal in Korea that it is here , so ATS could step in and fill a niche there. Perhaps from the outset, Korea wasn't going to be enough...

 

[YunaBliss]

I'm playing catch up on this unfortunate situation, trying to piece together the sequence of events here. But it seems like Yuna's management threw the fist public punch with that statement things had been tense since May?

NO. Brian threw the first punch by making an unilateral public announcement through IMG that he was a victim of wrongful termination. And IMG timed the release to be on the first day of ticketing of Yuna's first ice show in the U.S.

 

[Layfan]

( That's a sort of a jaundiced eye )...maybe some of what's being left unsaid , what's rankling behind the scenes is mentioned by a poster at FSU . Brian renewed his contract with his long time agent in April. Ms.Park formed her agency after World's. Earlier in the year, Brian had been involved in the planning of Yuna's shows in the States. Suddenly , he's not..and his emails are not being answered. People have posted here, and elsewhere.. complaining that Brian's other students have signed with IMG...

To me, that's an interesting angle that hasn't been focused on too much. Everyone gets caught up in the emotional aspect of the relationship between Y & B . So $$ can be playing a big part here...not the relatively modest amount that Brian makes from coaching Yuna , but the $$ ATS hopes to make ,and muscles it hopes to flex ,in the future. probably ATS envisioned being able to scoop Brian ,his other students, and who knows who else away from IMG, and may see his reluctance to put himself under their management as some sort of betrayal .

People on the forums have said that Sports representation is not the big deal in Korea that it is here , so ATS could step in and fill a niche there. Perhaps from the outset, Korea wasn't going to be enough...

veeeery interrrressssting....

it's frustrating for fans when people involved in this situation are so chatty about it .... but not. Obviously, both sides are not revealing a lot. But they keep talking about it and revealing just enough to keep the public interested and harping about it.

But it seems to me that on the whole Orser has been smoother about defending his interests. And you can't blame him for trying to defend his own interests. Yuna's management could use a course on writing press releases, anyway.

 

[Daniel5555]

Layfan

But it seems like Yuna's management threw the fist public punch with that statement things had been tense since May? Before that there was only a restrained statement from Orser's management announcing the decision, correct?

First official statement from Brian was correct, I guess, but I'm not sure that ATS responded immediatly on this. I think Brian already had some intreviews before they did it. But in any case that statement from ATS was really bad and looked improvised.

And then, Kim comes out and says she knows the reason but doesn't want to say only to have her management company come out an imply they were angry that Orser revealed the music of her long program, correct? I really don't know anything about the insides of the skating world. But is it really that astonishing that he would do that?

Yuna usually reveals her music pretty late. I don't think it's a big deal, but Brian knew about it and it spoiled the surprise for skating fans. Like in the last season Brian said, that she goes to skate to piano concerto, but he didn't say exactly what that piece was. So he knew it would be bad to do. But I don't think he had bad intentions.

colleen o'neill

To me, that's an interesting angle that hasn't been focused on too much. Everyone gets caught up in the emotional aspect of the relationship between Y & B . So $$ can be playing a big part here...not the relatively modest amount that Brian makes from coaching Yuna , but the $$ ATS hopes to make ,and muscles it hopes to flex ,in the future. probably ATS envisioned being able to scoop Brian ,his other students, and who knows who else away from IMG, and may see his reluctance to put himself under their management as some sort of betrayal .

Who knows... But I doubt about it. I know that (according to Brian) he didn't know anything about the creation of ATS. If they wanted him to help with this, they sure would inform him long ago. When he said that, it's possible that they already had some problems with their relationship, but no one saw it.

 

[Layfan]

NO. Brian threw the first punch by making an unilateral public announcement through IMG that he was a victim of wrongful termination. And IMG timed the release to be on the first day of ticketing of Yuna's first ice show in the U.S.

Oh. I didnt' realize that about the show. But it had been three weeks since he was fired. Does he need permission from Yuna to announce it even if he isn't her coach anymore? And by the sounds of it, it seem like he wouldn't have been able to even approach them about a joint announcement. It seems like they weren't too open to even talking to him.

 

[Layfan]

Layfan



Yuna usually reveals her music pretty late. I don't think it's a big deal, but Brian knew about it and it spoiled the surprise for skating fans. Like in the last season Brian said, that she goes to skate to piano concerto, but he didn't say exactly what that piece was. So he knew it would be bad to do. But I don't think he had bad intentions.

Well, it seems a bit much for the Yuna side to say that Brian did it deliberately to hurt the skater. Why on Earth would he want to do that? I dunno, like I said, course on press releases, folks.

I think Brian will be fine and that skaters will still want to flock to him unless something much more terrible is revealed. I only hope that Yuna is able to keep it together if she keeps competing. It would be awful to see her skating affected by this. She is just too wonderful a skater.

 

[fairly4]

it is both yu-na fault and brian fault-=plus IMG why-img-they are big in u.s -think they are going to sit idlely by and let the news pass up without letting yu-na look bad. why=-they have an agenda as well--what--promote their shows, and lets not forget the USFSA/and IMG agreement. they have a stake in this-show wise-Most of the U.S. top skaters are Img if they want to get their skaters in shows with the money IMG chooses them to have lets bring down yuna and her show and her mom-yes they helped by starting it or brian .
i don't care which person started this or which camp. it is bad on both accounts.

lets take stock-
1) will skaters now trust brian to tell them things that they might want to keep out of papers in future if /when they reach the top.
2) did both sides do enough communication wise to understand what each other wanted and said. to me sounds like a major breakdown of communciation.
3) was brian really shocked by yu-na dropping him after she won gold with what she was getting after all -he was a skater . he knew skaters quietly drop coaches after winning medals at olympics. so was he really surprised.
--i think he was more hurt because yu-na wouldn't or couldn't tell him personnally -why she was afraid, she like him to much , she didn't want to hurt his feelings , who knows.
4) the tidbits shouldn't be this bad if anyone paid attention the feelers were out there regarding yu-na mom and how she has been handling the situation since "yuna" made it in the senior ranks.
5) yu-na want to be world wide-this is part of it-take good with bad.
if they though michelle was handled kid gloves they should have look at earlier papers and see how the nailed her. not to mention now-if you read some U.S. papers they mention michelle and frank and basically stated they wanted more information to pass around and make michelle look bad and they are upset about it.- so now they are after yu-na and brian-why she wants to be big in the u.s. --it comes with the territory.
6) fans-did they really think yu-na would stay amatuer /stay competing if she won gold with what she is getting--get real--when does she have time to practice. -tell me what is her incentive.
7) did we really know yu-na-. her coming up the korean federation kept her at arms length we only saw and knew what they wanted us to know. the media wanted to find out a few things and couldn/t wouldn't be able to get close to her. she is was packaged to us from day one.
8) media-they love blowups-they make people look bad for copy-for ratings. for talk/ for anything. they don't care who or what they hurt
9) Img- what do they get --more support for them and their shows and skaters-maybe loss of money for yu-na show-maybe.
10_i could go on-right now all out of ideas.
the normal public don"t care . it is the same old same old coming from the sport. nothing new.
draws attention-yes-keep attention no.
more of spoiled brats on both sides spewing.
i

 

[Daniel5555]

Layfan

Well, it seems a bit much for the Yuna side to say that Brian did it deliberately to hurt the skater. Why on Earth would he want to do that? I dunno, like I said, course on press releases, folks.

They are clearly not professionals. I don't know about her mother (after all, as manager she wasn't bad for the most time), but Helen Choi is absolutely horrible.

Yuna always had a bad luck with agencies, even when they were professionals. The IMG was absolutely horrible and comported itself as crap in the end. IB Sports was much better, but often lacking the necessary enthusiasm for supporting her. When establishing their own agency, I think, they were deceived by those "professionals" and instead relied on Helen Choi, about which we know only that she is big fan of Yuna and therefore has the enthusiasm. But this is not enough really. Management should be colder even in times like this.

I think Brian will be fine and that skaters will still want to flock to him unless something much more terrible is revealed. I only hope that Yuna is able to keep it together if she keeps competing. It would be awful to see her skating affected by this. She is just too wonderful a skater.

I hope for the same. They both are great people, to the extent, that I don't think we really have a right to criticize them too much. What happened is an error. An error of epic proportions.

 

[Mathman]

I am quite willing to give Mrs. Park all praise as a mother. As a management agent, she lacks experience. That is why the two shouldn't mix.

In the comparison to Michelle Kwan, yes, she parted company (somewhat awkwardly) first with her choreographer, then with her coach. And yes, questions were raised about the involvement of her parents, and also about money.

But the one person that Michelle stuck with through thick or thin throughout her entire career was her business agent, Shep Goldberg. Goldberg handled Michelle's business affairs with unfailing professionalism. He was always there for her, but in the background, never thrusting himself into the spotlight.

 

[janetfan]

I'm sorry Janetfan, but it wasn't necessary on Brian's part to do this. And its very possible that if he hadn't Yu-na wouldn't have written that letter or said the guy lied. That's something Brian could and should take a little responsibility for. Maybe he thought by doing this he'd help Yu-na in the long running because maybe with the next coach Mama would back off who knows.

I agree Beka, and with the rest of what you had posted. Absolutely Brian could have handled this better. ATS could have handled it better. But I have no doubt brian was thinking of Christina, Adam and the other skaters and coaches at the CC.
To think this would not have gotten out until.....when....Worlds?

After Aug 2 when Ms Park fired Brian and Tracy he waited three weeks. But there is more in the world than Ms Park and Yuna.
Christina's family is not paying so much to the CC, Orser and Wilson to have her training in a dysfuntional atmosphere.
ATS thought it was fine to say nothing. Brian thought otherwise. Too bad that in the weeks after Orser was fired that he and Ms Park could not realize this needed to be handled in a professional and coordinated manner. That seems to be the job of Yuna's agency and they dropped the ball.

 

[samsarah]

Judging by Brian's reaction - that's what he wanted, too. What he's basically said is: "You wanted me off the team? I wanna hear it from YOUR lips." Whether it was the 'cowards' way out or the 'obedient child who let mama call the shots' Brian doesn't seem to care, he just wants to know Yuna's truly on board. And I think, if she is, that he'd be hurt even more just to know she's lost faith in him or decided she's outgrown him or whatever reason truly caused this split. No way do I think this is because of the rumors IMG was talking him into coaching Mao. That rumor was ridiculous.

That would explain Brian's reaction when he heard Yuna's twit on CTV. He was glad to finally get a voice from Yuna.

However, I still cannot help but wonder, if there could have been a less painful way to end this? As mathman said, publicly accusing one's mother puts the skater in an impossible situation. (not to mention the possible negative impact on Gao and Rippon who would be competing in this season's Grand prix)

Yuna was stuck.

Brian, as a reasonable person, should have foreseen his actions would have come to this. (or maybe he thought this was the only way to get her response?)

Anyway, poor jugement on his side if he believed Yuna will blame her mother.

Also, poor jugement on ATS, if they believed Brian would step down from his position like a mere at will employee. (or was he? are FS coaches generally discharged at-will by the employer? was Brian ever an employee? lol )

Also, to me, Brian seemed to have lost his faith in ATS long before the split. So here comes another scenario; maybe ATS told Brian that Yuna wanted to end the coaching relationship, told him the reason (he did not disclose immediately about Mao? :think. But Brian disbelieved.

If I was in his shoes, I would also have doubted ATS.

ATS may be Yuna's management, but their translation sucks, etc. Most importantly, it is headed by Yuna’s mom! How could I possibly believe whatever she says?

Since Brian and Yuna's relationship was a thing straight out of a fairytale, I cannot help but feel sorry about how it had to end. It would have been so nice if they stayed “happily ever after” the Olympics.

Now that it’s over, hope that real life (as opposed to a fancy fairytale) begins for Brian and Yuna.

 

[ilfs]

It appears that judging from some of the posts here that this melodramatic story is becoming a fodder for some of the fans and non-fans alike to unleash unexamined criticisim on the Yuna camp.

From the get-go of this unfolding drama, it seems apparent that this is an issue of "breach of trust" on the part of the coach to entertain the possibility of coaching a rival skater, and not telling the Yuna camp about it until a month later after swirling rumors, post WC.

(unable to post original Toronto Star link here)
"Questions to consider: perhaps it was the fact that he did not disclose that he had been approached by her agents at Worlds until the rumours broke publicly more than a month later (and Brian had been in Korea for Festa on Ice with ample opportunity to reveal it) that caused the relationship to deteriorate?"

It did not help that since both Orser and Asada are under IMG management, additional friction and mistrust may have been developed. An No, this is not a case of "down sizing", or "surplusing" a coach by an over-zealous mother over trivial matters.

The fact that she had to train alone with little verbal/text contact with her coach, post WC, is something Orser would not be unaware, and if he was culturally sensitive enough(perhaps given the uber-intense rivalry between the two ladies), would have registered. I think he may have had either his radar turned off or is being disingenuous by asserting that his termination came as a shock.

I see no reason nor a motivation for the Yuna camp to abandon their amazing winning formula this way without the tortured process of dealing with this "betrayal".

 

[bekalc]

I agree Beka, and with the rest of what you had posted. Absolutely Brian could have handled this better. ATS could have handled it better. But I have no doubt brian was thinking of Christina, Adam and the other skaters and coaches at the CC.
To think this would not have gotten out until.....when....Worlds?

After Aug 2 when Ms Park fired Brian and Tracy he waited three weeks. But there is more in the world than Ms Park and Yuna.
Christina's family is not paying so much to the CC, Orser and Wilson to have her training in a dysfuntional atmosphere.
ATS thought it was fine to say nothing. Brian thought otherwise. Too bad that in the weeks after Orser was fired that he and Ms Park could not realize this needed to be handled in a professional and coordinated manner. That seems to be the job of Yuna's agency and they dropped the ball.

Once again I'm not sure what protecting Christina has to do with Brian revealing that Yu-na was confused by the break up. Brian could have announced that he and Yu-na Kim split without going into all of the personal details of how the split happened. If anything I'm sure for the last couple of days, Christina and Adam had to deal with MORE tension due to the fact that Brian-yes Brian-decided to make the break up into a media spectacle.

I'm not saying that Brian was wrong for announcing the break up the way he did, it totally depends on if he offered to have a joint statement made etc. What I am saying is that the words he used weren't necessary. Multiple interviews not necessary. There's a difference.

And yes Yu-na and her team should have handled it better. They should have made an announcement they should have issued a better statement absolutely. But even if they were acting incompetent, you'd think that Orser would go up to them and say lets make an announcement together etc? Just because you'd think he'd maybe consider it in Christina and Adam's best interests for there not to be a media spectacle in the weeks they are preparing to start the season. And if they refuse to make a joint statement, than yes make the statement but no don't go around showing emails to Yu-na, saying Yu-na's confused etc. That was Brian's choice to do the above things, and showing his emails to Yu-na , saying Yu-na was confused, had absolutely nothing to do with protecting Christina.

 

[prettykeys]

They are clearly not professionals. I don't know about her mother (after all, as manager she wasn't bad for the most time), but Helen Choi is absolutely horrible.

I keep thinking...if anyone needed to be fired or laid off, Helen Choi should have been before Brian Orser. She hasn't impressed me with anything and has already given us multiple examples of her ineptitude. Late and badly written answers to e-mail interviews, poor translation skills, dawdling behind YuNa after business is done and having YuNa walk alone to the car while she chit-chats...

( That's a sort of a jaundiced eye )...maybe some of what's being left unsaid , what's rankling behind the scenes is mentioned by a poster at FSU . Brian renewed his contract with his long time agent in April. Ms.Park formed her agency after World's. Earlier in the year, Brian had been involved in the planning of Yuna's shows in the States. Suddenly , he's not..and his emails are not being answered. People have posted here, and elsewhere.. complaining that Brian's other students have signed with IMG...

To me, that's an interesting angle that hasn't been focused on too much. Everyone gets caught up in the emotional aspect of the relationship between Y & B . So $$ can be playing a big part here...not the relatively modest amount that Brian makes from coaching Yuna , but the $$ ATS hopes to make ,and muscles it hopes to flex ,in the future. probably ATS envisioned being able to scoop Brian ,his other students, and who knows who else away from IMG, and may see his reluctance to put himself under their management as some sort of betrayal .

People on the forums have said that Sports representation is not the big deal in Korea that it is here , so ATS could step in and fill a niche there. Perhaps from the outset, Korea wasn't going to be enough...

Weird, and plausible...! Considering the bad history that IMG Korea has with YuNa, this could have very well been perceived as the betrayal that triggered Orser's dismissal!

I'm playing catch up on this unfortunate situation, trying to piece together the sequence of events here. But it seems like Yuna's management threw the fist public punch with that statement things had been tense since May?

No. Brian was the one to take it public.

Do you guys think David Wilson was as upset about it as the Yuna's management implied?

To be honest, I don't trust reporting that has only been mentioned by ATS. I am sure Wilson is "shocked and upset", but it's hard to tell if that quote was not somehow taken out of context, and whether he's more shocked and upset about this whole affair.

Nobody seems to defend Ms Park and ATS here.

I have defended Ms. Park. One of the articles posted here, I said, put too much of a negative slant about her. The reason I am also mad at Brian for taking shots at her publicly is because my first impulse was to believe him, and after YuNa came out and defended her in response, I felt betrayed by Brian's words. I don't think he'd intentionally lie, but he really shouldn't yap away at the media about stuff he's not--even as he admits--completely in the know about.

That's what I'm thinking too. I'm thinking if Brian hadn't gone so public with everything (gone public but left out the stuff about her management/mother) that maybe things could have been saved. Maybe Yu-na really didn't want to leave him, and would have eventually been able to convince her mom to back off.

Exaaactly. I said this earlier. Even if I agree with some of you's here who say "Brian had to say something!", he didn't have to say the things he did in the manner he did.

If this were a romantic relationship, after the first separation, YuNa should have made more open communication/put things to resolution with Brian, not Twitter'd, and left or announced her soon departure from the Cricket Club. Brian should have NOT publicly declared YuNa's new LP music, blasted any of her family members/close friends, and in general just keep talking about it to people who are not directly involved. And if he had any hopes of wanting YuNa to come back, just stayed calm and quiet indefinitely, after a brief single statement of something like:

"As of August, I have been told by YuNa's agency that I am no longer to be retained as her coach. I am unclear as to their reasons and rather taken aback, but I still love YuNa and would be happy to work with her again if she changes her mind and contacts me."

How hard is that?

 

[janetfan]

( That's a sort of a jaundiced eye )...maybe some of what's being left unsaid , what's rankling behind the scenes is mentioned by a poster at FSU . Brian renewed his contract with his long time agent in April. Ms.Park formed her agency after World's. Earlier in the year, Brian had been involved in the planning of Yuna's shows in the States. Suddenly , he's not..and his emails are not being answered. People have posted here, and elsewhere.. complaining that Brian's other students have signed with IMG...

To me, that's an interesting angle that hasn't been focused on too much. Everyone gets caught up in the emotional aspect of the relationship between Y & B . So $$ can be playing a big part here...not the relatively modest amount that Brian makes from coaching Yuna , but the $$ ATS hopes to make ,and muscles it hopes to flex ,in the future. probably ATS envisioned being able to scoop Brian ,his other students, and who knows who else away from IMG, and may see his reluctance to put himself under their management as some sort of betrayal .

People on the forums have said that Sports representation is not the big deal in Korea that it is here , so ATS could step in and fill a niche there. Perhaps from the outset, Korea wasn't going to be enough...

Interesting post colleen. I hadn't thought about it - but what a coincidence. Ms Park starts her own agency and Yuna's coach and his skaters don't sign up with her. And just at the same time when bad feelings start.

I don't believe in coincidences and the fact that Brian re-signed with his agent and not ATS might be a factor here.
Stage mom extraordinaire to the 10th degree

 

[janetfan]

Once again I'm not sure what protecting Christina has to do with Brian revealing that Yu-na was confused by the break up. Brian could have announced that he and Yu-na Kim split without going into all of the personal details of how the split happened. If anything I'm sure for the last couple of days, Christina and Adam had to deal with MORE tension due to the fact that Brian-yes Brian-decided to make the break up into a media spectacle.

I'm not saying that Brian was wrong for announcing the break up the way he did, it totally depends on if he offered to have a joint statement made etc. What I am saying is that the words he used weren't necessary. Multiple interviews not necessary. There's a difference.

And yes Yu-na and her team should have handled it better. They should have made an announcement they should have issued a better statement absolutely. But even if they were acting incompetent, you'd think that Orser would go up to them and say lets make an announcement together etc? Just because you'd think he'd maybe consider it in Christina and Adam's best interests for there not to be a media spectacle in the weeks they are preparing to start the season. And if they refuse to make a joint statement, than yes make the statement but no don't go around showing emails to Yu-na, saying Yu-na's confused etc. That was Brian's choice to do the above things, and showing his emails to Yu-na , saying Yu-na was confused, had absolutely nothing to do with protecting Christina.

Brian said the atmosphere was tense at the CC and was effecting the skaters and coaches.
The atmosphere was tense due to the strained relations between Brian and ATS.

Like I said, I would not want my kid training there - not for how much it costs. The last report we heard was that Yuna was sitting and crying waiting her turn on the ice.
That just goes over your head?

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

Once again I'm not sure what protecting Christina has to do with Brian revealing that Yu-na was confused by the break up. Brian could have announced that he and Yu-na Kim split without going into all of the personal details of how the split happened. If anything I'm sure for the last couple of days, Christina and Adam had to deal with MORE tension due to the fact that Brian-yes Brian-decided to make the break up into a media spectacle.

I'm not saying that Brian was wrong for announcing the break up the way he did, it totally depends on if he offered to have a joint statement made etc. What I am saying is that the words he used weren't necessary. There's a difference.


And yes Yu-na and her team should have handled it better.

I always enjoy reading your posts because...you always try to be as fair as possible in a logical way...Thank you.

In this case, I think Brian was simply angry and did not know it was Yuna's dicision to terminate the relationship.
Brian might have thought...he did everything right for Yuna.
Maybe he'll begin to understand what went wrong.

On CTV interview...He was asked whether Yuna could have thought she was neglected.
His response : MAYBE...

 

[samsarah]

Brian said the atmosphere was tense at the CC and was effecting the skaters and coaches.
The atmosphere was tense due to the strained relations between Brian and ATS.

Like I said, I would not want my kid training there - not for how much it costs. The last report we heard was that Yuna was sitting and crying waiting her turn on the ice.
That just goes over your head?

When Brian said that the atmosphere in cricket club was tense, it was shortly after his public announcement. I remember this particular interview. By the end of it, Brian politely suggests Yuna to take her leave. So I guess it was after his announcement did the tension became palpable among his students.

 

[Sylvia]

The interviews and quotes I've read from Brian Orser lead me to believe that Orser made his public announcement on August 23 because there was already tension and stress in the atmosphere of the Cricket Club (most likely since that August 2nd meeting) that was affecting the rest of the skaters and their daily training there.

ETA: "Yu-Na Day" and her Korean American Leadership Foundation award ceremony took place in Los Angeles on August 6-7, followed by the Thornhill competition in which Orser had many students competing from August 12-15.