Ladies and quad jumps?

[Ares]

I don't trust Adam Rippon's quads.. Over the last 2 seasons his axels are consistent ( but tiny ) and the quad is still inconsistent.

Adam's axel is awesome & huge! What are you talking about?

 

[Arriba627]

The 3A for the ladies really worries me. gotoschool wrote a very interesting post in the Mao Asada thread (p.253 Post #3785) about Mao's "jumper's knee" injury and how Rika Kihara is already suffering from the same thing.

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/jumpers_knee#3

 

[4everchan]

I don't know, I trust Patrick's quads more than his 3 Axel. Same with Adam Rippon. As far as Ladies land quads, it's certainly possible as Miki Ando has landed one in competition and there's a video somewhere that show's Sasha Cohen landing a really good one in practice. I don't think she ever did one in competition, however. This isn't the one I remember but, here she is attempting one in the warm up at skate America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIsRJSjotE

1) Patrick's 3A are quite good this year
2) How can you trust Adam's quads over his 3A??? I mean, unless you mean his quadriceps because his quad jumps are pretty non-existing.

Joannie Rochette was reported having done the 4T in practice.

I think Gabby definitely should try the 4T.... and the 3A... her 2A is pretty big and easy (look at her 3S-2A Seq)

I think some other girls could get there but I don't think it's worth it.... and I don't think it's something they will do before the Olympics... unless lil Bet uses it as a weapon to get some more recognition.

I would think that the next quad may bring some improved technical content for ladies but right now, it's in their interest to cultivate consistency, as the games are so close...

 

[Mathman]

They probably will replace the 2A. Most ladies do 2 2A in their layout.

An Axel jump is required in both the short and long programs. So unless they have a triple Axel (too) they would have to replace one of their triples with the quad.

 

[mrrice]

1) Patrick's 3A are quite good this year
2) How can you trust Adam's quads over his 3A??? I mean, unless you mean his quadriceps because his quad jumps are pretty non-existing.

Joannie Rochette was reported having done the 4T in practice.

I think Gabby definitely should try the 4T.... and the 3A... her 2A is pretty big and easy (look at her 3S-2A Seq)

I think some other girls could get there but I don't think it's worth it.... and I don't think it's something we will do before the Olympics... unless lil Bet uses it as a weapon to get some more recognition.

I would think that the next quad may bring some improved technical content for ladies but right now, it's in their interest to cultivate consistency, as the games are so close...

What is up with Gabby and her jumps? She has been a favorite of mine but, I seem to hear less about her ambitions than those of Kaetlyn and Alaine. Her jumps are so big. I've never seen her in person but, her jumps "Look" to be much bigger than Alaine's. Here's thing about Patrick and his jumps. In fact, in general. I've never seen him skate badly in person, only on video. If he makes a mistake, I do think it's partly due to bad ice because he is as solid as a rock and his posture is spectacular. You can't move around the way he does, at the speed his does, unless you have spectacular basics. Who was Patrick's first coach?

 

[mcq]

An Axel jump is required in both the short and long programs. So unless they have a triple Axel (too) they would have to replace one of their triples with the quad.

Ladies do 2 double axel usually in the FS, replacing 1 with a quad is doable than replacing a triple, makes more sense point-wise too. I don't think any ladies would do a quad in the short even though they can jump it, especially if it is their first try-out. Just like how Adam Rippon only put quad in his FS and avoid to do so in the short.

 

[4everchan]

Osborne Colson

What is up with Gabby and her jumps? She has been a favorite of mine but, I seem to hear less about her ambitions than those of Kaetlyn and Alaine. Her jumps are so big. I've never seen her in person but, her jumps "Look" to be much bigger than Alaine's. Here's thing about Patrick and his jumps. In fact, in general. I've never seen him skate badly in person, only on video. If he makes a mistake, I do think it's partly due to bad ice because he is as solid as a rock and his posture is spectacular. You can't move around the way he does, at the speed his does, unless you have spectacular basics. Who was Patrick's first coach?

 

[mrrice]

Thanks 4everchan. I had never seen them together :https://www.usfigureskating.org/con...r/pics/patrick_chan_and_89-year-old_coach.jpg

 

[shyne]

Polina T has a delayed jump technique. Unless she changes her technique, I don't see how she can manage a quad.
I think we are more likely to see it from a petite skater, with decent height/distance, quick with rotation and perhaps with a tendency to pre-rotate her jumps.

 

[Crossover]

Polina T has a delayed jump technique. Unless she changes her technique, I don't see how she can manage a quad.
I think we are more likely to see it from a petite skater, with decent height/distance, quick with rotation and perhaps with a tendency to pre-rotate her jumps.

Polina's 3Lutz is delayed, but not other jumps. Skaters capable of doing delayed jumps mean they can do more air time than others. She can perhaps try 4Lutz instead if she is healty.

 

[SkaterX]

Does anyone know how a quad would be scored? Do you think any ladies will attempt one in their programs any time soon?

 

[mcq]

Does anyone know how a quad would be scored? Do you think any ladies will attempt one in their programs any time soon?

I am not sure what the first question is but it will be scored the same like the men.
I saw you young attempted a 4S but it was downgraded. I doubt she can keep that jump once she hits puberty anyway, just like Miki Ando. Rather than a quad, it is more likely to see more women doing 3A. Mao and Tukt do 3A but at the same time their 3-3s were not reliable (which probably is one of the reason why they invest time on 3A). Now there are many ladies who have more reliable 3-3 + is doing/plan to do 3A in their layout, like Rika Kihira and Wakaba higuchi. I doubt we will see one in senior field before Pyeongchang, to be honest.

 

[Icey]

It has been such a long time since Miki Ando did her quad. Looks like we would have seen a few by now.

 

[daphenaxa]

I am not sure what the first question is but it will be scored the same like the men.
I saw you young attempted a 4S but it was downgraded. I doubt she can keep that jump once she hits puberty anyway, just like Miki Ando. Rather than a quad, it is more likely to see more women doing 3A. Mao and Tukt do 3A but at the same time their 3-3s were not reliable (which probably is one of the reason why they invest time on 3A). Now there are many ladies who have more reliable 3-3 + is doing/plan to do 3A in their layout, like Rika Kihira and Wakaba higuchi. I doubt we will see one in senior field before Pyeongchang, to be honest.

I am not sure I agree with you. At the time they learnt 3A (when they were like 12 or 13), both Mao and Liza had reliable triple-triple combos. Mao's triple-triple got less reliable with puberty and also imo because she focused so much on triple axel, doing 2 in her free program in 2009 and 2010 seasons! Liza was doing 3Lz-3T with no problem until a couple of years ago and now she still has a mean 3T3T

apparently Mirai is gonna attempt 3A at US Nationals. https://twitter.com/CoachTomZ/status/805964070730039296 it looks amazing here i gotta say

 

[mcq]

I am not sure I agree with you. At the time they learnt 3A (when they were like 12 or 13), both Mao and Liza had reliable triple-triple combos. Mao's triple-triple got less reliable with puberty and also imo because she focused so much on triple axel, doing 2 in her free program in 2009 and 2010 seasons! Liza was doing 3Lz-3T with no problem until a couple of years ago and now she still has a mean 3T3T

I am pretty sure many ladies learn/practice 3A or quad and can land them in training, but only few actually put it in their program. I think part of the reason why Mao did 2 3A and at the end decided to go for 3A2T/3F2Lo instead of 3F3T/3F3Lo is because she got dinged on UR on her 3-3 combo starting ard maybe 2007 or 2008. Tukt start putting 3A in her layout when she lost her 3Lz3T in the 13/14 season and depend on her 3T3T alongside 3A in the next season so she can catch up with the point. So yes, I still think part of the reason why they put in the 3A is because they start having problem with their 3-3. Maybe not for young 15 y.o Mao, but for post-2008 Mao i see this as one of her reason.

 

[daphenaxa]

I am pretty sure many ladies learn/practice 3A or quad and can land them in training, but only few actually put it in their program. I think part of the reason why Mao did 2 3A and at the end decided to go for 3A2T/3F2Lo instead of 3F3T/3F3Lo is because she got dinged on UR on her 3-3 combo starting ard maybe 2007 or 2008. Tukt start putting 3A in her layout when she lost her 3Lz3T in the 13/14 season and depend on her 3T3T alongside 3A in the next season so she can catch up with the point. So yes, I still think part of the reason why they put in the 3A is because they start having problem with their 3-3. Maybe not for young 15 y.o Mao, but for post-2008 Mao i see this as one of her reason.

actually in 2007-2008 Mao's 3F-3Lo and even her 3F-3T were still ratified most of the time. In 2009 and 2010 her 3A however was dinged left and right and with the system at the time any < brought it back to the value of a 2A (minus the negative GOES as well) so it really wasn't a good deal if she was doing it just for the points.
As for Liza, she has done the 3A in competition a grand total of two times, worlds and WTT, so it is not like she relied on it to win everything. It didn't really mattered she didn't have the 3Lz-3T anymore as long as she still did two lutzes in her programs.
Also I disagree that a lot of skaters can do 3A or quads in practice but don't put them in their programs. I am pretty sure all the girls seriously working on those elements and landing them (and I don't think there are that many) want to eventually put them out in competition

 

[Tolstoj]

Evgenia and Serafima tried the 4S in the post season last year and Masha this year as well, but as Mishin (and Liza) said is too hard for a woman, 3A is slightly easier.

I am not sure I agree with you. At the time they learnt 3A (when they were like 12 or 13), both Mao and Liza had reliable triple-triple combos. Mao's triple-triple got less reliable with puberty and also imo because she focused so much on triple axel, doing 2 in her free program in 2009 and 2010 seasons! Liza was doing 3Lz-3T with no problem until a couple of years ago and now she still has a mean 3T3T

She ditched the 3Ltz-3t because it became unreliable, but she is still able to land it.

I am pretty sure many ladies learn/practice 3A or quad and can land them in training, but only few actually put it in their program. I think part of the reason why Mao did 2 3A and at the end decided to go for 3A2T/3F2Lo instead of 3F3T/3F3Lo is because she got dinged on UR on her 3-3 combo starting ard maybe 2007 or 2008.

3a-2t was the only way for her to put a 3a in the short program because of the rule, but i remember she had the 3t-3t few years ago and under Tarasova's coaching she landed even the 3ltz-3t (although the lutz was a flutz most of the time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHNpasEhf4

 

[mcq]

actually in 2007-2008 Mao's 3F-3Lo and even her 3F-3T were still ratified most of the time. In 2009 and 2010 her 3A however was dinged left and right and with the system at the time any < brought it back to the value of a 2A (minus the negative GOES as well) so it really wasn't a good deal if she was doing it just for the points.
As for Liza, she has done the 3A in competition a grand total of two times, worlds and WTT, so it is not like she relied on it to win everything. It didn't really mattered she didn't have the 3Lz-3T anymore as long as she still did two lutzes in her programs.
Also I disagree that a lot of skaters can do 3A or quads in practice but don't put them in their programs. I am pretty sure all the girls seriously working on those elements and landing them (and I don't think there are that many) want to eventually put them out in competition

Hm, maybe you are right. I always get the impression her UR calls are what makes Mao spend time on 3A more and eventually just completely ditch 3-3.
With the current system, even ladies who attempt 3A eventually drop it. Chartrand completely dropped it and Liza in the end also dropped it. Having on and off 3A in your layout did not really pay off if you don't really land your other jumps, especially if you fall + get < or <<. I see this even more severe with quad for ladies. Ladies who land their things scored more because GOE+PCS gap cover the gap in BV.

3a-2t was the only way for her to put a 3a in the short program because of the rule, but i remember she had the 3t-3t few years ago and under Tarasova's coaching she landed even the 3ltz-3t (although the lutz was a flutz most of the time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHNpasEhf4

But she still had her 3F3T and 3F3Lo around that time, no?

 

[andromache]

Why do most women who work on quads work on the quad salchow instead of the quad toe?

Especially why would a skater like Evgenia (who can do triple toes in her sleep) work on a 4S instead of 4T?

 

[blue_ice]

Not worth the risk. Many ladies can't even do clean 3Lo+3Lo or 3 Lz+3T