Ladies - LP

[ImaginaryPogue]

So, I come to my computer, figuring that if we're lucky, Cynthia would've eeked tenth. After all, we saw her skate a great short at 4CC 2009 only to lose it in the free, so I wanted to keep my expectations in check. I loaded the ISU page and went instantly to the bottom. I get to 12-10, and see Hecken, Suzuki and Helgelsson. I scan back down to make sure the Canadian flag I dismissed was indeed Samson's. Then I go to the very bottom and make sure Phaneuf didn't withdraw. But top five? Wow. Not only keeping two spots, but keeping it with a bullet. I'm glad she wasn't in a bronze medal position post-SP - her nerve might not have held, but what a way to re-announce yourself. If she never skates this well in the future, oh well, but she can be proud of her achievement. No judge gave her a negative GOE on any element! Remember, this is Phaneuf who I might hold the record for most falls in a senior this season after Skate Canada. The difficulty wasn't there (she had three level three elements, the most in the top fifteen, though Sebestyn had one level 1), but the quality was.

 

[Tinymavy15]

But that's just your opinion. That concerto grew on me eventually- it took a while not because of yuna's inability to express that music well but b/c of the abstract nature of the music.
Understanding the nature of that piece I thought she delivered it like no other and probably watched it like 50 times.... For me, from the second lutz in later of the program to the step sequence was the most memorable piece from this olys. But I do love her lark ascending though- one of my favorite LP besides sasha's romeo and juliet.

The Concerto Freeskate grew on me as well, I found it very boring at TEB but realized it was the perfect olympic freeskate by february.
Funny though, the part where her olympic performance fell flat for me was the step sequence...it just seemed slow and she seemed very cautious as if she was really thinking about each step. I was screaming "sell it baby sell it!" at the TV set.

The Lark Ascending was IMO the best program for her style, too bad she never skated it clean and that her spirals were so painful to look at then. I would like it better now. But it will never come close to Sash'a R&J.

 

[ryoko]

well you should read the post to which I was replying, the reason why Kim is the greatest is because of her world record score, which I don't agreel.

I don't agree with that either. and it doesn't matter because whether agree with that post or not does nothing to justify what you said.
seriously, i'm just getting curious about what all this "agree with placement" but "don't agree with score" thing. What good would this attitude do to you or to other general skating fans? Don't you think its rather discouraging/ belittling the skaters' accomplishments?

 

[Lilith11]

Eh really Tinymavy15? I've personally always loved how Yu-na executes her step sequences though Mao does it absolutely wonderfully too; so intricate and she pulls it off so well. Ah well, to each his/her own. Lark Ascending is a stunning program, I agree. I don't think I'd mind it if she brought it out again, except updated to fit her technical skills as of now.

By the way.... must we go back to the whole "Kim's scores were inflated" thing from a month ago? Like previous posters have said, ultimately, it's not her score but her performance that will be remembered. And I believe we can come to the consensus that the gold was well deserved. So please, let's keep it at that?

Why thank you Robeye I'd be interested on hearing your theory in regards to the wisdom of the crowd as well

 

[ANW]

what have I said here has to be justified? Please let me know

I don't agree with that either. and it doesn't matter because whether agree with that post or not does nothing to justify what you said.
seriously, i'm just getting curious about what all this "agree with placement" but "don't agree with score" thing. What good would this attitude do to you or to other general skating fans? Don't you think its rather discouraging/ belittling the skaters' accomplishments?

 

[rtureck]

For some Michelle will always be the best and that's well deserved and for others Yuna will be the best, and that's deserved too.
It's really has no much sense to talk who is really the best, it's more like a personal preference. To be one of the greatest - Yuna already is the one and try to prove that it's not true.

Sorry to offend you, I believe you are the one who keeps bring up whois the best in history or who is the best in Torin LOL

 

[ryoko]

The Concerto Freeskate grew on me as well, I found it very boring at TEB but realized it was the perfect olympic freeskate by february.
Funny though, the part where her olympic performance fell flat for me was the step sequence...it just seemed slow and she seemed very cautious as if she was really thinking about each step. I was screaming "sell it baby sell it!" at the TV set.

The Lark Ascending was IMO the best program for her style, too bad she never skated it clean and that her spirals were so painful to look at then. I would like it better now. But it will never come close to Sash'a R&J.

Well, I wouldn't go comparing them. I was thinking more about the choreography of the those two programs. Weren't they both choreographed by Wilson? I still think yuna sold concerto very well at olys, though. Her TEB performance looked better perhaps due to their lighting- it made the ice look bluish and I thought it was really pretty

 

[jenaj]

Forgive me - earlier i did point out Kristi was the Last Lady to win the WC, then the OGM, and then go on to defend her WC as reigning Olympic champion.

That record is actually pretty impressive to me - something which neither Yuna or Mao has done, not to mention Oksana, Tara, Michelle or Shiz, etc.

I believe Peggy Fleming did it and maybe Dorothy too. But not many have been able to win the skating "trifecta." (consecutive WC, OGM and WC)
Not sure if Kati did it either - maybe someone knows?

Dorothy did, too, because she had never won World's. In her book, she said she was advised by many not to go to World's, but she was determined to do it and win. Yu Na didn't have that determination this year.

 

[rtureck]

rtureck

I agree with you, but no one made excuses.

At least some fans are making excuses

If the country has "plenty" of skaters, sure

Every country has plenty of skater. They may not have plenty of world class skaters. But a skater should go to a comp for himself or herself and not even bow to the pressure of their own federation of going to a competition if they don't want to. But if they make a committment to go to a comp, there is absolutely no exucse of "being tired"

Of course. But also some are more tired than others... They can't be equally tired

Well being a world class athlete, s/he should be able to figure out a practice routine etc to conquer the "tired".

 

[bekalc]

It's so weird how some are journalist are saying Yu na never falters. Even the journalist are once in every 4 year figure skating watchers. I do they account for Yu na's one world championship gold.

Tara wouldn't have won worlds again... and again with that hip. She wouldn't have had her 3/3 to compete with the complete Michelle or whoever else was coming up.

Read my post again. I said who knows if Michelle Kwan would have stuck around if she won Gold in Nagano. Before she was talking about going to Harvard. Its totally possible if she had won everything that she would have made the choice to attend Havard, and that she also wouldn't have gone to 98 worlds either. There's an equally good chance that Tara would have attented worlds in that scenario giving Tara-2 world titles to Michelles-one world title. While Tara did have the injury problems, she probalby would have remained healthy enough to win 1999 worlds too.

The thing is there is luck that plays a role into things and also competition. People can't just look at the row of titles/amount of medals. As I said before in overall longevity Plushenko is more impressive than Yagudin. But Yags won his world titles and Olympic gold against greater competition. That counts for something.

Right now the field in ladies is showing itself to be quite weak. If some of Mao's competition steps it up and Mao dominates that will be one thing. But if she ends up dominanting a field that continues to include people medaling the way Laura medaled its another.

And in the Kristi scenario I can say that yes Kristi's winning gold at the Olympics and following it with gold at worlds was impressive. But I could point out that Kristi didn't exactly skate all that well at the Olympics-she got lucky that her comptition skated worse than her. There's something to be said for how well Yu-na skated when she won the Olympics. And Mao was amazing here at Worlds.

I just think its a combination of things. If Yu-na wants to cement her legacy than yes, Yu-na needs to win more titles, I think. But if Mao wants to cement hers, its going to take more than her being able to beat the Laura Lepistos for me to think Mao is better than Yu-na. Now if the competition continues to get better and Mao continues to dominant that will be another thing altogether.

 

[ms9421]

I am sorry Mirai had a bad skate. She needs to learn from this, get mad, and never let it happen again. She simply lose her nerve and timing after missing the first combo and the wonky landing. She is the most gifted skater out there in my opinion. On another note, i am thrilled that Mao won if Mirai couldn't. Really like her. She is a sweet kid without attitude. She never quit trying and it has paid off. Gott love her. My last comment is this: figure skating is on a downward slide in the U.S. when not one major network would carry this competition. It is very sad that it has come to this. My compliments to Universal Sports for their excellent coverage.

USA Figuare Skating almost finnish until the US Figuare Skating Leader that can devople them like in Gymnastics. Until parents will sind them into Skiiing, Gymnastics Volley Ball, and Swimming. Also after the way Rachael Flatt was score so low in LP in Vancouver Parents told me they where glad they don't have to put there little girl into that sport get there heart taken out by a bad Judge. That is the Opion accross the USA. MY feeling everybody USA rather she there daughter be the next Carly, Nastia , and the next Shawn Johnson. The day USA owning the women Podium is done intil there is better leadership in USA FIG, better Coaching, and Judges stop hating on Americans.

 

[Daniel5555]

rtureck

I have to disagree that she is learning the triple axel this season. Mao has been learning the triple axel since she was 9 y/o? or younger? With the growth spurt (in her teenage yrs) she has become less consistent with this jump. I guess she has to readjust her jumps.

I agree with you. Maybe I had to say that she "learned it again".
Now it does looks like it's really consistent jump for her.

Dont't know where you get that. I got the impression tht Mao wants to skate her best and win every competition. All skaters want that. I don't think Mao is focused on YuNa or beating YuNa's scores.

Well, she said that she wants to beat Yuna's world record, so that seems to be one of her objectives. Not because it's Yuna, it's because Yuna has that record.
I think there is nothing wrong with this.

Mao seems to be focused on beating Yuna's scores to me. Saying that, I'm sure that she doesn't have any feelings against Yuna, it just looks like she put it as the mark she has to surpass.

I think the best skater of every comp is the gold medalist (that is if the judging is fair). I can't possibly think you are saying the jujdging is unfair. Are you saying that Mao is not the best skater in this comp??? And please no excuses about jet lags etc.

Mao is the best skater on that competition, of course, that's why she won.
I said "the best skater: (just the best)" meaning that Yuna seems to me stronger than Mao right now, because she has World records and she showed the best performances this season. That's why I said that she is the best overall, because the best one is not always the one who wins.

I think, no one doubts that Yuna could win really, because objectively, she really is the stronger skater right now.

If there is possibly of jet lag then plan ahead and arrive a day earlier ,, whatever.

She had to return with Korean team and then she wanted to get back to train as early as possibly. How you could plan this? She had to meet Korean president and other people, it's them who planned it, not Yuna.

And please no excuses about jet lags etc.

Again, no one is making any excuse. We, as fans of Yuna, were worried about the jet lag while she was still in Canada, because we knew that it's gonna be brutal on her brain. But this is not an excuse, it's just affected her performance negatively.
I think that she could win if Mr. Korean president decided not to meet her. But again, I'm not saying that this is an excuse. At the same time you have to admit that Yuna really could win, because she is capable of much more than she showed.

The same comes to Mirai Nagasu... Someone said that she had to take care of someone, or I don't know... Well, maybe that's the reason why she finished 7th. Is not an excuse, but I don't see any reason to hide unfortunate circumstances. This is not excuse, it's just saying what happened.
I heard that this may go bad in American culture. In my Spanish culture is absolutely ok.
If I say that I had some problems, I'm not implying that it's the cause of my bad result. I'm the one to blame anyway.

I remember YuNa's idol Michelle Kwan who came down with a sinus infection (and had to take antibiotics during worlds 1999). She lost the gold to Maria Bute, but MK never even mentioned her sinus infection once to the press as an excuse. Even when she was asked, she said "no, she did not lose to Maria because she was ill". MK did not make any excuses, though she had a reason.

Here is exactly the same. Yuna never said that she lost because of this. I don't know why mr. janetfan keeps telling this.

But other skaters did not make excuses.

Again. You are obsessed with excuses. But check the validity of this information at least.

Neither has anything to prove, but probably YuNa has less to prove, so she should be skating and competing just for the joy of it right.

Maybe.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Have to ask, if Joannie Rochette skated poorly in Vancouver given the circumstances and her fans said it was because she was having problems focusing, would that be making an excuse?

 

[ANW]

I don't see anything wrong with Rachael's score at Olympics. In the SP her jump was clearly URed and she got away from it. Her jumps were (borderline) URed in the FS and thus DGed.

USA Figuare Skating almost finnish until the US Figuare Skating Leader that can devople them like in Gymnastics. Until parents will sind them into Skiiing, Gymnastics Volley Ball, and Swimming. Also after the way Rachael Flatt was score so low in LP in Vancouvers Parents told me they where glad they don't have to put there little girl into that sport get there heart taken out by a bad Judge. That is the Opion accross the USA.

 

[rtureck]

rtureck

Well, she said that she wants to beat Yuna's world record, so that seems to be one of her objectives. Not because it's Yuna, it's because Yuna has that record.
I think there is nothing wrong with this.

Well Mao likes to compete and win and she sets goals for herself including beating records, of course nothing wrong with that. She may or may not achieve it, but she sure will try. Thanks for clarigying tht she wants to beat the record not b/c it is YuNa's

Mao is the best skater on that competition, of course, that's why she won.
I said "the best skater: (just the best)" meaning that Yuna seems to me stronger than Mao right now, because she has World records and she showed the best performances this season. That's why I said that she is the best overall, because the best one is not always the one who wins.

No you said Yuna (best skater) vaulted from 7th to 2nd. It comes across that you are saying YuNa is the best skater at Torin. Anyway who is the best skater, is topic of another thread

I think, no one doubts that Yuna could win really, because objectively, she really is the stronger skater right now.

I think anytime when Mao and Yuna lace up a pair of skate, no one can doubt that either one is capable of winning, i.e. no one can count them out, not even judges. But in this comp Mao won

She had to return with Korean team and then she wanted to get back to train as early as possibly. How you could plan this? She had to meet Korean president and other people, it's them who planned it, not Yuna.

The Korean president and all the commerical sponsors etc are not holding a gun to YuNa's head. She has a choice not to go. But if she goes, please fans do not worry or make excuse or come up with all these even though Mao skated the best, no one can doubt that YuNa can win because she is the best skater. If that is the case why not just give the world gold medal to YuNa without a world comp then.

Again, no one is making any excuse. We, as fans of Yuna, were worried about the jet lag while she was still in Canada, because we knew that it's gonna be brutal on her brain. But this is not an excuse, it's just affected her performance negatively.
I think that she could win if Mr. Korean president decided not to meet her. But again, I'm not saying that this is an excuse. At the same time you have to admit that Yuna really could win, because she is capable of much more than she showed.

In worlds 1999, many Mk fans worried about her sinus infection too, but when Maria won, I did not make excuses for MK. Mk lost to MB period.

The same comes to Mirai Nagasu... Someone said that she had to take care of someone, or I don't know... Well, maybe that's the reason why she finished 7th. Is not an excuse, but I don't see any reason to hide unfortunate circumstances. This is not excuse, it's just saying what happened.
I heard that this may go bad in American culture. In my Spanish culture is absolutely ok.

Didn't read that about Nagasu, but if her fans are saying that, that too comes across as an excuse.
I don;t think it is US culture vs Spanish culture. There is a reason why many athletes don't mention their injuries or illnesses etc during comp. For example in MK's case even when asked she denied absolutely that sinus infection has anything to do with losing to MB, because Michelle did not want ot take credit away from Maria;s win. Some fans call that sportsmansihp

Again. You are obsessed with excuses. But check the validity of this information at least.


Maybe.

I am not obsessed with excuses. I don't want to hear excuses

Anyway, a YuNa fan mentioned earlier that s/he is celebrating YuNa's full set of world medals, I am sure you are doing the same. 2010 world is over, the judging is fair and square, and your worry about "jet lag" etc seems to be unnecessary

 

[Lilith11]

rtureck, you just took all the words out my mouth. The best doesn't always win; if that was the case, Michelle Kwan should have an OGM.

Let's just be happy for all the ladies; Yu-na, Mao, Laura, Mirai, everyone, congratulate them on their medals, and wait for the upcoming season with open minds to see what it brings. After all, the ice is slippery ;D The competition is over, the results are the results, now we have only the future to look towards

 

[Daniel5555]

rtureck

Sorry to offend you, I believe you are the one who keeps bring up whois the best in history or who is the best in Torin LOL

What you quoted was addressed to janetfan. It's him who talks about legacy and stuff.

At least some fans are making excuses

I'm just making a logical analysis why it happened and who had to endure more. Really Yuna was prepared according to her, but something gone wrong. I'm just thinking why it gone wrong...

A lot of you seem to think that she made an excuse after her performance. First of all, there is no reason to make an excuse, because she was personally happy and even maybe lucky that she got a silver medal. So why an excuse if she actually did it good in her opinion?
Second, all the information about jet lag and her illness was available long before the competition. She said that she got a cold after returning in Toronto the next day she arrived. It's just that some fans including me started to speculate how much that could affect her performance. it's not coming from Yuna or anyone from her team.
Third, I don't know why you Americans seems to see everything as excuses. Yuna Kim is Korean, and she may say something in the future that you may think is an excuse, but really it's not. And I don't know why you see everything as an excuse... As far as I know no one else in the world sees it that way.
I don't understand what would be wrong if Michelle said that she lost partly because an infection interrupted her training? If that's actually is the truth! I perceive something as an excuse when it's not true that something happened because of it.

Every country has plenty of skater. They may not have plenty of world class skaters. But a skater should go to a comp for himself or herself and not even bow to the pressure of their own federation of going to a competition if they don't want to. But if they make a committment to go to a comp, there is absolutely no exucse of "being tired"

Well being a world class athlete, s/he should be able to figure out a practice routine etc to conquer the "tired".

I think you are demanding much more than her Korean fans. Forget about excuses as she didn't do any. She did great, Mao was better and that's all.
You better think about how she climbed from 7th place to the 2nd. She made the impossible possible.

 

[Cerulean]

Wow, we're back to normal. Amazing to see what Yuna's silver can do overnight.

What do you mean?

 

[ms9421]

I don't see anything wrong with Rachael's score at Olympics. In the SP her jump was clearly URed and she got away from it. Her jumps were (borderline) URed in the FS and thus DGed.

That's why American Family wheather they are LIberial COnservative or Moderate would rather send there kids in the other sports until US Figure Skating ORG fix I would rather see my kids in Gymnastics and Swimming. By the they are in the Sports on there own Accord I don't enter feer one bit . That there decission alone.

 

[Basics]

HEY, Yuna said she is happy with the silver, so who dares to make excuses? lol

I personally hoped she pull off the second straight world title, but I guess she didn't care about the medal that much.

Even before the Olympics, she promised she will compete in Torino for the multiple world spots for her country, and now she has done what she wanted.

GREAT Job Yuna~!!!