Ladies SP

[macemace1980]

I don't think it's so much about practicing. The difference here is that Kim has sounder jumping technique than Asada has...And that sound jumping technique is paying dividends after puberty










I agree. I read an article about Yuna's jumping. She learned it from a few Korean coaches here in Korea, but mainly learned by watching video tapes of other top-level skaters, like Kwan's. There's no special rink for figure skaters or appropriate coaching programs here, so she had to practice it with her mother at night .
When young Yuna tried to cheat when jumping(like using wrong edges or underrotating), she had to run around the rink so many times as a punishment because her mother was so strict about that.

I think that now it becomes almost a half-automatic physical reaction after long practice before puberty.

Ignore my grammatical mistakes, plz.

I am sorry for the confusion I made, I guess because of my terrible English
I wanted to mean the efficiency of the practice.
While Yuna has a full-time coach Brian who is always on the rink with Yuna skating together to teach her every detail , Mao has a part- time coach Tatiana who lives generally in Russia and that can teach Mao only theoretically.
It is what I thought.

 

[figurejennah]

In my view, some fans are right to view the 3/3 as not enough of a risk for Yuna BECAUSE SHE IS SO SOLID.
Goodness, she is earning +2 GOEs on them, for crying out loud.

No other current ladies can be expected to land them fully rotated every time, let alone earn bonus points for them.

While 3/3 itself is a risk/challenge for female skaters, taking risks also means stepping out of your own comfort zone, and I think she is demonstrating on the ice that one 3/3 combo, for her, is not exactly that any more.

So if anything, I think it's a compliment to her technical prowess.
(Whether those people have meant it or not is a whole another discussion, of course.)

Sniper, I agree with what you said in most part, but I don't think anyone said it in a positive way when they were saying that yuna was not taking any challenge. The only triple jump that yuna cannot land is 3A, but that is due to her health reasons. As many figure fans know, yuna suffered from some serious back injuries, and she even considered of quitting. For example in 2007 world, she debuted in the senior world with that magnificent tango program and set her first world record, but then in FS, she fell twice!!! Learning a new jump at that point was just too risky for her.

Do we really have to see a talented beautiful skater quit just because she cannot land one type of jump? She has consistently tried her rather weak jump "3Loop," and she has improved greatly in her spiral and spin, so I would say that she has stepped out of her comfort zone. And let's not forget that she changed her 3f-3t to 3lutz-3toe, and its base values are even higher than Mao's 3A combo. Just because she doesn't try doing 3A, I think it's extremely wrong of others to "put her down" by saying that she doesn't challenge herself. Believe me, I've seen videos of yuna crying when she is practicing on ice, and oh boy those fantastic 3-3 didn't just come to her easily! And to be honest, Miki has not landed that quad that she's been talking about for years. Yukari's 3A is always downgraded, never a perfect one.

Now, it is impressive that Mao continues to try doing this... 3A. sigh. But let's face it, it is really affecting her entire program in a miserably negative way. Slipping on ice, two foot landing, UR, falling.... Challenge is good, but enough is enough. What we need is to find someone who can figure out a better jump layout for Mao, and figure out how she can stablize her program. Competing against Yuna isn't even an issue at this point when she is receiving 51 on her sp!!! ARG. Focus on herself, and get the job done. Perhaps one should realize that perfecting one element is more difficult that it seems.

 

[Hiara80]

why Mao had a deduction?

( for horrible costume?)

 

[ilunga1965]

I am sorry for the confusion I made, I guess because of my terrible English
I wanted to mean the efficiency of the practice.
While Yuna has a full-time coach Brian who is always on the rink with Yuna skating together to teach her every detail , Mao has a part- time coach Tatiana who lives generally in Russia and that can teach Mao only theoretically.
It is what I thought.

My English is terrible, too.

Brian Orser became Yuna's full-time coach in 2007. What I wrote earlier was about when Yuna learned jumping skills in Korea before that. I heard that she wanted him to be her coach to learn 3A, but he had refused twice before saying yes. However, in an interview with a Korean newspaper, she said she wouldn't try 3A at the moment and she would concentrate on making other jumps more perfect, instead.

I don't think that Tatiana teaches Mao only theoretically. The problem is that she stays in Russia and Mao should go there whenever she needs her coaching....I guess. She really needs a full-time coach who could help her technically and psychologically.

 

[calica]

Miki ANDO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkRjHYFAV_A

Alissa CZISNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTIBocvW7w4

Ashley WAGNER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ja8wSPkEjI

Mao ASADA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8KbOXVA7RQ&feature=channel

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

Whole Post

 

[bekalc]

Originally Posted by *Sniper*
In my view, some fans are right to view the 3/3 as not enough of a risk for Yuna BECAUSE SHE IS SO SOLID.
Goodness, she is earning +2 GOEs on them, for crying out loud.

No other current ladies can be expected to land them fully rotated every time, let alone earn bonus points for them.

While 3/3 itself is a risk/challenge for female skaters, taking risks also means stepping out of your own comfort zone, and I think she is demonstrating on the ice that one 3/3 combo, for her, is not exactly that any more.

So if anything, I think it's a compliment to her technical prowess.
(Whether those people have meant it or not is a whole another discussion, of course.)

Well I think a 3lutz/3toe is stepping out of her comfort zone. She is practicing the 3loop but its not worth the risk of doing it, until she's consistent with it. She doesn't get enough points.

She's never likely to do a 3loop combo given her issues with the loop. So aside from learning a triple axel or a quad, what more is there. There's nothing actually to increase her points. Doing two 3/3toes won't increase her points. Doing a 3/3/3 won't increase her base value either...

It would have been stupid of her to risk injury learning a quad or a 3axel considering her back issues as is. Maybe if she wins the Olympics, and if she decides to stay in, maybe she'll consider learning a quad or a 3axel for the purpose of challenging herself. But right now, I think a smarter challenge is actually going clean in the long. (for her).

And I don't think it's ever a good idea to put in risk just for the sake of risk. The goal should be to perform elements you can do consistently. Mastering risky elements is an amazing thing, and its always going to be risky to do under pressure.

 

[janetfan]

OMG why do you drag yuna into this??? I don't understand why some Mao's fans always try to make yuna look so bad!!! I love Mao, but I feel so bad to see these kinds of fans. Are you also one of those people who posted horrible videos on youtube? Mao did well, considering all these stress she has to deal with. We will see how she does tomorrow!!!

I have followed Brian Orser's career since his memorable performance at the Sarajevo Olympics.

Nothing I have seen in Brian's long skating and now coaching career would point to him behaving as a previous poster had suggested. To the contrary Brian has shown grace, compassion and loads of class throughout his long career.

 

[ilunga1965]

Miki ANDO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkRjHYFAV_A

Alissa CZISNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTIBocvW7w4

Ashley WAGNER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ja8wSPkEjI

Mao ASADA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8KbOXVA7RQ&feature=channel

It's good to see Ando Miki did better than the last 2 seasons. She must have had a hard time correcting some problems in her jumping. I hope that her effort will be rewarded.

 

[evangeline]

^^^

Um, I think the original poster was probably joking....

 

[figurejennah]

I am curious as to how and why Mao's jumps have become so unstable like this. I mean, Miki basically screwed up the whole season, but she fixed her jump and now she is more than fine, isn't she?

Also, Mao looked like she fixed her flutz perfectly on tv interviews, and how come not only her lutz, but her all other jumps are now messed up? She no longer puts any 3-3 in her program, 3A is killing her, and she keeps falling.... ugh. Moreover, didn't yuna also have that flip problem with "!" mark? Her fans say that her jumps were always perfect, but obviously it bothered yuna enough to take flip out of the 3-3 and put it separately. If Yuna really did have edge problems, then how could she fix her edge problem so easily without affecting any other jumps, but Mao on the other hand has all these problems?

I feel that after the whole flutz deal affected Mao greatly, and her strategy with jumping and programs have changed dramatically. I really don't get it. Is doing 3A really affecting her everything? Mao also doesn't seem to be jumping as high, and her body appears to be slightly heavier when she jumps. (Not heavy as in weight, but it's more stiff or some sort. Compared to her junior years, there's definitely a huge difference.)

Whatever the problem is, I really hope Mao finds a solution. I am still really shocked with her 6th placement and also her score...........

 

[janetfan]

It's good to see Ando Miki did better than the last 2 seasons. She must have had a hard time correcting some problems in her jumping. I hope that her effort will be rewarded.

Thanks for the links.
I enjoyed Alissa's program - and after a day of so much huffing and puffing about Mao/Tat, Alissa's gentle and elegant skating made me realize how much I enjoy figure skating.
I recommend to some of those who are still so worked up over Mao to take a look at Alissa. Maybe not the best, but surely lovely and full of grace.
Way to go Alissa!

 

[Basics]

What's up with Mao's high PCS score, anyway? Her TES is 8th and her PCS is 1st. Does this happen often in new judging system? & Can someone explain why she got the deduction? It doesn't look to me that she ended late.

 

[Okami]

What's up with Mao's high PCS score, anywayz? Her TES is 8th and her PCS is 1st. Does this happen often in new judging system?

Yup, it actually happens quite often. Technically speaking, PCS should not be influenced by the jumping ability (but more often than not they are).

Can someone explain why she got the deduction? It doesn't look to me that she finished late.

It was a time deduction, actually, according to someone who has seen the protocols.

 

[skfan]

Thanks for the links.
I enjoyed Alissa's program - and after a day of so much huffing and puffing about Mao/Tat, Alissa's gentle and elegant skating made me realize how much I enjoy figure skating.
I recommend to some of those who are still so worked up over Mao to take a look at Alissa. Maybe not the best, but surely lovely and full of grace.
Way to go Alissa!

going only by what i see in the short here i prefer wagner. more oomph. i could do without so much arm flailing in wagner's choreography. and i prefer alexe gilles to both of them.


i feel certain that mao won't continue to struggle like this--she will change things up. whether the adjustments work as planned or not, this just can't continue. i felt so awful watching mao waiting for her scores, a bit like, would the judges just give her the scores already so she can go hide from the cameras.


i believe mao will have worked out a plan by japanese nationals. now i just pray and hope that when she makes the team it won't be controversial in any way.

 

[Medusa]

Yup, it actually happens quite often. Technically speaking, PCS should not be influenced by the jumping ability (but more often than not they are).

Which is wrong, by the way. There is no other sport where you can suck and at the same time get big points. There needs to be a basis in my opinion. One double Axel and one Triple Flip is no basis. Plus, it's not like she skated the lights out. Some skaters, e.g. Lambiel, can make you forget some mistakes with their fantastic presentation. The judges shouldn't be influenced by that either, but that's more understandable than reputation judging.

 

[herro]

Oh Mao... she's so talented but she just needs to take the pressure off herself. I don't know whether to blame Tarasova or Mao herself for pushing for the 3A so far, but whoever it is, it needs to stop. I hope it hasn't become a "pride" thing. I do have faith in Mao to pull up considerably during the LP.

I really enjoyed Ashley's performance. Her skating was crisp and her program was pretty well-choreographed. Her jumps looked very light and clean too. I don't understand why she got such a score but we'll have to wait until the protocols are out.

Miki's program was a bit rough. I understand that she only had a couple of days to prepare it, so I'm expecting it to develop much more in the coming months. I'm currently not a big fan of Miki's artistry, but I hope she can prove me wrong.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Cant Mao Asada get a bronze and still get in.

She can, on a tie breaker. That's assuming other skaters with silver and bronze have lower combine score than Mao. Her score from TEB is not that great, and judging from her current SP score, she needs to hit 120+ to get over 170 total score mark. That's a score many skaters like Fumie, Nakano, Susuki, Flatt, etc. are capable of getting on clean skate.

 

[camion]

I just saw a couple of skaters' programs. I feel so sad for Mao....I don't know what to say, I've never seen her so dejected in the k&c. And even before her program started she looked extremely nervous. I hate to see her struggle so much. Maybe changing her SP can boost her morale.

And thank God, Miki changed her short. I think it's a hella lot better than her previous program. She has some hideous spirals though. The costuming & praying part reminded me of Mao's LP- I guess it's very Russian to say the least.
Ashley did great. She just needs to keep building this up. Her chances for an Olympic spot is looking fab. And Alyssa, my goodness- I always love her taste in dresses, programs. She did a good job. I think Brian is gearing her to have the right mentality. I really liked Leonova. Great energy from her. Reminded me a lot of Slutsukaya with that bubbliness, short hair & cherubic face. Still rough around the edges, but definitely someone to look forward to.

 

[R.D.]

OK, enough from me about Asada- on to the other skaters:

Czisny: Better than I expected. She stood up during the program which is always a positive. However, silly mistake on the 2A after nailing the first two triple jumps...had she hit that, she'd have a comfortable lead now, I'm sure of it.

Wagner: Good start. Seems like she underrotated some jumps because the score was a little low (I was expecting something closer to 58 or something)

Note: I still think they should either make it clear to the viewer on TV whether a jump was underrotated, or lessen the penalty for underrotated jump. I think only clearly visible mistakes should detract from the score but that's another thread. Just for the sake of the audience. suggestion: apply the -1 deduction for underrotation and give 0 points for failed jumps.

Ando: Unfortunate mistake but reasonable start. With Asada struggling, will she assert herself as the top Japanese lady in the field now?