Lambiel's LP jump layout

[slutskayafan21]

I am wondering what some of you think about Lambiel's jump layout in the LP. He actually had only 1 quad and 1 triple axel, and the triples he repeated were two triple flips, and the customary 2 triple toes at the end of combos many guys do. This is interesting since in the past Stephane has always had a jump layout of 2 quads and 1 triple axel. This is a definite reduction in jump content, and puts him below even guys who plan 1 quad and 2 triple axels like Lysacek and Takahashi. It might also be a safer gameplan, if that is what he feels more comfortable with.

He did manage a 155+ even with 3 major mistakes, which allowed him so narrowly to win his 2nd GP final, so that might given him confidence to stay with it, or maybe it was just a short term thing given the problems he has been having lately, and the 2nd quad will be back in later this season. What do you think.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think any skater can feel confident after winning with a weak jump program. His 3A was over rotated. (He's much to active to do it correctly, that he is pressed with that jump.). In 2005 and 06, his contents-of-program, with the Vivaldi were most competitive having a quad combo as well as a solo quad. He has to put that back in because Brian will.

He seems to be getting back in shape, albeit slowly but definitie catchup is there. However, Brian if he hits with a newfound modicum of rhythm will give Stephane some challenge. After Euros, he must show his other quad if there is one.

Euros will tell more about Lambiel. he's a late bloomer.

Joe

 

[eleonora.d]

There is the 2nd quad. In some interviews he released here in Italy after the GP he told he didn't feel like attempting another quad though he knew it was important to win, but he thought during the program it was better not to risk, that this year's score and stystem in general do not encourage to take this kind of risks.

He said that risk is not worth anymore and that there is too little difference between a triple and a quad and this means lose an important part of figure skating , that quads and triple axels are not rewarded as they should and he hopes that next year something will change.(I'm reading it in an italian sport newspaper, TuttoSport) but he also said he wants to be prepared and in good shape to do that @Euros. can't wait. He already did that, he can do, I want to see it live You're so right he's always better in th 2nd half of the season (and it is most important :chorus

 

[GoldMedalist]

His 3A was over rotated.

Please stop saying this; it's not true.

In the SP Lambiel's Axel was a quarter turn short (but clean).

In the LP, he landed on the inside edge and that caused him to fall out of the jump.

 

[Tinymavy15]

well if you havn't noticed Lambiel's quad isn't as solid as it used to be this year. He has fallen on it frequently. Maybe he thought that it was smarter to only do one and skate clean until he gets them consistant again.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Please stop saying this; it's not true.

In the SP Lambiel's Axel was a quarter turn short (but clean).

In the LP, he landed on the inside edge and that caused him to fall out of the jump.

Sorry dearie, I don't stop calling for someone else's orders. Just say you disagree. That's the PC thing to say.

As a point of interest, have you or anyone else ever seen an overrotated jump? It's never mentioned on this Board.

Joe

 

[GoldMedalist]

Sorry dearie

:indiff:

I just don't know why you say his problem is over-rotating the Axel. It's not. Whenever he actually lands the Triple Axel cleanly, it's almost always short. When he has trouble with the landing, I've never seen the problem being that he rotated too much in the air.

As a point of interest, have you or anyone else ever seen an overrotated jump? It's never mentioned on this Board.

It doesn't happen much in competitions with skaters of this level. That's a problem I've had when trying double jumps after practicing Triples, though.

If you mean overrotated as in the skater kept skidding on the ice after landing, that's something else altogether (not checking the landing properly).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

GM

I apologize for the improper salutation but it seemed to me like you were putting me under orders. Let's just forget this ever happened.

Lambiel's 3A is problematic, I agree. He has natural rotation in spins and all his other jumps even a quad. It just doesn't make sense that he can't make the rotations of a 3A., but I agree there are many many times he falls short but I have seen him overrotate it once in Tokyo, and assumed that was the main problem.

Agree. Overrotations are not as common, but they do exist.

Joe

 

[debdelilah]

There is the 2nd quad. In some interviews he released here in Italy after the GP he told he didn't feel like attempting another quad though he knew it was important to win, but he thought during the program it was better not to risk, that this year's score and stystem in general do not encourage to take this kind of risks.

He said that risk is not worth anymore and that there is too little difference between a triple and a quad and this means lose an important part of figure skating , that quads and triple axels are not rewarded as they should and he hopes that next year something will change.(I'm reading it in an italian sport newspaper, TuttoSport) but he also said he wants to be prepared and in good shape to do that @Euros. can't wait. He already did that, he can do, I want to see it live You're so right he's always better in th 2nd half of the season (and it is most important :chorus

At Cup of Russia, he underrotated the second quad and fell, which made it worth nothing...the problem is with the severity of the downgrade penalty, not with the value of a quad, I think. Of course it's not worth it to risk falling on a jump that may only end up counting as a triple toe. But raising the value of a quad is not going to change the value of a triple--they could make the quad worth an absurdly high value, and it still would not help him if it were downgraded and got the points of a triple.

At the GPF, in the SP, Stephane's 3A was close to 1/4 turn underrotated, but was ratified--but then Daisuke, skating after him, ended up getting unusually high(probably too high) GOE on some elements. There are definitely wonky things with the system, but just saying the quad should be worth more will not fix anything--if you look at what it is worth relative to other jumps, that's really not the problem. GOE made all the difference in the SP, not base values of jumps.

This particular case aside, I'm not saying GOE shouldn't make a difference...the fact that it does encourages cleaner programs, and skaters with a quad will always have a large advantage skating clean in an LP, anyway, because of the limits of repeating triples. In theory, someone could do two quads and eight triples in an LP--the quadless person would not be able to contend by attempting 10 beautiful triples with +GOE, as the rules limit them to 8 triple jumps.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Lambiel did not skate cleanly in the short program though. His quad-triple and triple lutz both had -GOE. If he had landed those 2 jumps cleanly he would have easily won the short, even with lower jump GOE for that performance then Takahashi. He had -1.20 GOE on those 2 jumps alone, so we can assume atleast 2.40 (or more) higher if they were landed cleanly. At worst his clean jumps would match Lysacek's GOE.

Also it is very rare for his 2nd quad to be downgraded. He has done it for years and almost always rotates it and stands it up, although sometimes stumbling out of it.