Maaao!

[Bijoux]

ok -so we have a perky bean. I missed it. did a sloppy axel and a two footer really outskate the complete packages of sasha, joannie and sizzle? I missed the little bean, but with all the talk of Buttle and his winning PCS scores, how could Paul Wylie be so wrong?

Also is the ISU telling Sasha now to up the ante? If Irina outjumps all and Sasha is not on the podium despite a clean perf in Turin, I give up on watching. :scratch: :no:

 

[Kasey]

Well, yes Mao outskated the field, but remember that there were TWO performances here, and Mao was leading after the short....so had the points in her favor. She was sloppy on the axel, and also fell out of a spin...but despite Wylie's exclamation of "brilliant", I don't think Sasha had a great skate either. (and two-foots as well)

 

[Rgirl]

I think Mao is going to be fireworks. She just isn't quite yet. However, in looking at the Levels for the non-jump elements, all I will say is that the Caller determined the outcome of this competition more than the PCS, IMO.

However, if the judges were sending a message to up the ante, such as in speed, edges, and jump solidity and difficulty, I say great, do it now. Sasha said something in her fluff piece about how she didn't know for a long time how many repetitions of something she should do to make it consistent. She didn't say this next part, but I think it goes along with it, eg, or if she was doing to many repetitions and and making things worse.

After the competition, Peter Carruther's interviewed Sasha and she said she'd been back stage studying her judges' sheet wondering why she got certain non-jump element levels and lower than usual PCS scores. Then she said (paraphrase), "The program has improved a lot [since Campbell's] but it still needs a lot of work and that's just what I intend to do. Go home, sit down with Mr. Nicks and my choreographer and find out where we need to concentrate our work and maybe where we need to change a few things."

BTW, as I say in another post, the Caller gave every ladies competitor a Level 3 for her Spiral Step sequence except for the girl who came in last place, who got a Level 1. I'm just now starting to look at the spins.

Also, Shizuka had a magnificent skate. No fall, though I think a little boo-boo, but minor. Sasha seemed more energetic, though Shizza had the right energy IMO for her music.

Perhaps since neither Sasha nor Shizuka had a chance at making it to the GPF, the judges and Caller thought, "Let's have Mao scare the bejeezus out of Shizza and Sasha since it won't affect their GPF standings. Plus, S and S will hopefully go home and train as if they can beat Irina!"

I hope so. I'd hate to think Cohen and Arakawa's PCS scores were for real. Although, where Mao killed both of them was in the TES--about 6 and 7 points higher than S & S. Mao's PCS scores were about 3 points lower than Sasha's and Shizza's. The podium is defendable, since neither Sasha or Shizza skated their A game. Mao pretty much did. Am creeped out by the Caller's spiral Levels; let's hope I'm not worse after I study the caller's spin Levels.

Rgirl

 

[Mathman]

Rgirl, truth, wait till you look at the spins.

I sincerely hope the caller is not using his authority to send anyone a message, or to do anything else than to call the elements according to the rules.

But for spins the rules say, stick out your arm at an awkward angle and revolve slowly four times -- OK, that's position #1 -- now hunch over and try to look like jellyfish with its tentacles hanging down -- #2, check... Level 4!

MM :no:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What we witnessed was the end of the Kwan Era and the beginning of the Asada Era. Even if it is for only four more years. It will be her years.
JMO

Joe

 

[shine]

I don't understand why is Mao so much better in every PC score than Joannie?

 

[R.D.]

What we witnessed was the end of the Kwan Era and the beginning of the Asada Era. Even if it is for only four more years. It will be her years.
JMO

Joe

This sounds to me, about right. I think we can say the Kwan Era is over, even if Kwan skates really well at Nats/Olys. but no one knows what this new era is called.

 

[Frau Muller]

Mao is ALIVE (not an aloof robot like Sasha), in addition to delivering the technical & stylistic goods. Case closed.

Irina, too, is ALIVE.
Alissa, too, is ALIVE.
Fumie, too, is ALIVE (when she delivers the goods).

Shiz, like Sasha, skates in her own closed world.

Oksana and Tara were ALIVE when they won their gold medals. Nancy & (surprisingly) Michele were automatons, going through their clean paces.

See the difference?

 

[R.D.]

Mao is ALIVE (not an aloof robot like Sasha), in addition to delivering the technical & stylistic goods. Case closed.

Irina, too, is ALIVE.
Alissa, too, is ALIVE.
Fumie, too, is ALIVE (when she delivers the goods).

Shiz, like Sasha, skates in her own closed world.

Oksana and Tara were ALIVE when they won their gold medals. Nancy & (surprisingly) Michele were automatons, going through their clean paces.

See the difference?

(I haven't watched the performances closely enough, so I'm going to hold off on commenting on your OPINION.)

You may be right, but I think it's somewhat presumptuous (sp?) to state the above as fact. Clearly other posters thought Cohen was better (not sure if I would agree or not, though), so it's not a fact. The only thing that IS a fact is that Mao won, and Cohen was second (overall).

 

[gkelly]

Perhaps since neither Sasha nor Shizuka had a chance at making it to the GPF,

Shizuka had a chance at making it to the GPF, and still has one, depending what happens at NHK (she's currently sixth in the standings). She already had a bronze medal from Cup of China -- silver plus bronze would have given her a better chance than bronze and bronze, but neither would take her out of the running. Gold, of course, would pretty much have secured her a spot.

 

[Doggygirl]

I won't repeat the whole thing I just posted in the Ladies thread. But RGirl, just make sure you are not mixing up the jobs of the technical panels and the judges. Using MM's example where he indicates slow speed in a spin, that's a GOE issue that's up to the judges. The technical panel only addresses the quantitative stuff.

This is just IMO, but what continues to hurt Sasha is mistakes. Out of 13 elements in her program, she got negative GOE on 5 of them. Of course the fall hurt the most with -3 GOE, plus another point in deduction. But she gave up another -1.4 in small mistakes on other elements, so mistakes alone cost her -5.6. I also think that making a major mistake (the fall) and minor mistakes on 4 other elements might have impacted that PCS score.

Shiz's biggest issue IMO is that her base value of technical content was several points lower to start with - hard to catch up from that.

DG

 

[Doggygirl]

More pondering....

Just want to add that I think it's to Sasha's credit that she does what she does well, SO well, that she places highly in spite of mistakes. I hope we all see the day when she finally puts together two totally clean (or lots closer than she generally has done) performances. She will rock the house IMO.

DG

 

[emma]

Just want to add that I think it's to Sasha's credit that she does what she does well, SO well, that she places highly in spite of mistakes. I hope we all see the day when she finally puts together two totally clean (or lots closer than she generally has done) performances. She will rock the house IMO.

DG

I'm very very slowly catching up...but couldn't agree more with this comment and the clarifications that directly preceded it.

About Mao: i too agree that she has many 'juniorish' qualities. And I confess, I haven't looked closely at the scores yet so don't even know what her PCS were. I will just speculate that as has been voiced many many times, it would be really nice to have two panels of judges, one tech and one PCS. But having said that, and with that implying that the PCS could probably use a good deal of tweaking, I do think that Mao's performance was just great. I mean first and foremost she covered the ice well (imo), appeared to have good speed and flow, definitely (imo again) had good command and presence, and energy throughout. Add to this the 'wow' factor of all those combo jumps later in the program, and heck, the wow of a triple axle even if not perfectly smoothe, and I'm not surprised she scored so highly even with the errors we saw (i didn't see the flutz that i've noticed some people mentioning, but the wonky axle landing and the fall out on the spin were obvious to me). I look forward to seeing her stretch a bit more and hold some of her positions a bit more and just shed -- when the time is right -- the coltish quality that many young girls have. In the meantime, I really enjoyed her. (i really enjoyed Sasha too, just wanted to comment on Mao here).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

This is just IMO, but what continues to hurt Sasha is mistakes. Out of 13 elements in her program, she got negative GOE on 5 of them. Of course the fall hurt the most with -3 GOE, plus another point in deduction. But she gave up another -1.4 in small mistakes on other elements, so mistakes alone cost her -5.6. I also think that making a major mistake (the fall) and minor mistakes on 4 other elements might have impacted that PCS score.

Shiz's biggest issue IMO is that her base value of technical content was several points lower to start with - hard to catch up from that.

DG

There is nothing in Sasha's jumps that would get her any pluses in the GOE scores. They are no more than standard when completed. It's not like her spiral sequence which is so remarkable that her GOE scores go up.

In future, she's up against the Queen of the Jumps who can also hold her own on spirals (which I don't agree with but there it is in the rules.)

Joe

 

[Doggygirl]

There is nothing in Sasha's jumps that would get her any pluses in the GOE scores. They are no more than standard when completed. It's not like her spiral sequence which is so remarkable that her GOE scores go up.

In future, she's up against the Queen of the Jumps who can also hold her own on spirals (which I don't agree with but there it is in the rules.)

Joe

ITA Joe. The 5 elements where Sasha got some degree of negative GOE were all jumps. Of her 7 jump passes, she got negative GOE on 5 of them, plus .2 GOE on one of them, and 0 GOE on the other.

That means that in the judges eyes, Sasha made mistakes (in varying degrees) on 71% of her jump elements. Making "net" mistakes (in varying degrees) on 5 of 13 total elements means she made "net" mistakes on 38% of her elements.

Compare that to Mao, who was properly dinged in negative GOE for the bobble on the 3A landing, and the wonk on the final spin (graded level 1, with neg GOE to boot - only a total of 1.4 score for that element after the neg GOE). That means Mao, in the judges eyes, made "net" mistakes on 2 of 13 elements (15%).

I stand by my opinion that Sasha is beating herself with her own mistakes. I would LOVE to see her turn that around. I hope she does.

DG

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

ITA Joe. The 5 elements where Sasha got some degree of negative GOE were all jumps. Of her 7 jump passes, she got negative GOE on 5 of them, plus .2 GOE on one of them, and 0 GOE on the other.

That means that in the judges eyes, Sasha made mistakes (in varying degrees) on 71% of her jump elements. Making "net" mistakes (in varying degrees) on 5 of 13 total elements means she made "net" mistakes on 38% of her elements.

Compare that to Mao, who was properly dinged in negative GOE for the bobble on the 3A landing, and the wonk on the final spin (graded level 1, with neg GOE to boot - only a total of 1.4 score for that element after the neg GOE). That means Mao, in the judges eyes, made "net" mistakes on 2 of 13 elements (15%).

I stand by my opinion that Sasha is beating herself with her own mistakes. I would LOVE to see her turn that around. I hope she does.DG

Thanks DG. I've got to find time to go through the details. It's very interesting when someone like you (neutral) can take time and report it.

I have to agree that Sasha is her own worst enemy. I think by now, she has a reputation for poor jump technique and the judges are going in with that sort of mindset so it is easy for them to score the PCS thusly. Not unlike Sarah who had the reputation for overrating jumps whether or not she did.

Joe