Mao Asada plans comeback

[kiara_bleu]

I think it's also unfair to Mao to just paint her as this great artiste that was victimized by this evil sports system. You can't tell me that someone who decides to do a historic 3 triple axel SP & LP or a 8 triple LP is not a tough competitor. The fact that she stubbornly insists on doing triple axels when she was struggling with it and have people doubt her shows to me how much of a great athlete she is. She was not just including it to be more competitive but also because she had a lot of pride from being only one of the few women who can do it.

 

[daphenaxa]

Lol saying that the system wasn't to the avantage of Mao doesn't equal saying she was victimised by the evil ISU. Though some stuff were quite ridic like having her have to do a double axel in the SP. Also saying that Yu Na took full avantage of the system that already played to her strengths (3Lz and big jumps) isn't criticizing her either.

 

[Mathman]

...Though some stuff were quite ridic like having her have to do a double axel in the SP…

Historically, the requirements for the short program have tended to lag behind the skills of the skaters at the very top. The rationale for this was that in the short program (unlike the "free" program) the iSU wanted to compare apples to apples. That is, they want all of the skaters to do the same elements and to be judged on who did those required elements the best. In the past it was even specified which triple (or double) jump the skater must attempt, on a rotating basis. (Nancy Kerrigan hated it when the loop came up. )

One criticism of the current rules is that there are no longer two distinct phases to the competition. There is a program and then there is another program that lasts a little longer. Neither serves the purpose for which they were originally designed.

So again, i don't think anyone was picking on Mao in particular when the ISU played it conservative as long as they could.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Lol saying that the system wasn't to the avantage of Mao doesn't equal saying she was victimised by the evil ISU. Though some stuff were quite ridic like having her have to do a double axel in the SP. Also saying that Yu Na took full avantage of the system that already played to her strengths (3Lz and big jumps) isn't criticizing her either.

And Mao won several grand prix/grand prix finals, world championships, and a silver Olympic medal with that system. More often than not she beat out pretty much anyone else except for one skater who just happens to be a considerable talent as well. In my opinion it's not so much that the system was to Yuna's advantage that allowed her to dominate but that on a given competition, Yuna was just less likely to make critical mistakes. If Yuna was an inconsistent competitor or a headcase, whatever advantage her lutz and big jumps have she would still lose to Mao.

 

[Flutzer]

I'd just like to say that I hope she announcing her comeback. I really missed her in competition.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

How does a reduction by 0.2 in the BV of a 3Flip favor Mao Asada, the skater who planned 3 flips over her 2 programs every season for her entire senior career? We can even say that since Yuna only did 2, this rule favored her (you know, since the 3Lutz had its BV remain the same instead of getting reduced). Now would also be a good time to point out that the increase in the value of a 3Lo was by 0.1, same as the 3T (which both Yuna and Carolina liked to do 3 times over the course of their two programs).

I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the 3f discussion. I completely agree with you :thumbsup:

But these conversations are tiring

AMEN:yes:

Of course it is anything but tiring to imagine Mao's potential return. I hope her training goes well and she is GP ready although I kind of wonder if she'll just qualify at a senior B, skate nationals, and then 4cc and WC.

 

[cruzceleste]

Mao is one of the skaters who brings the money in for JSF, for real. So I personally think there has to be some pressure there. Like even if she's just considering it and has voiced this to the federation, they would jump to get her to come back.

I hope that if she does decide against a return, people won't be too angry or disappointed. We can still see her in shows. And we have videos on youtube to watch.

Actually , as far as I can tell, Mao has very little relationship with JSF money.

She almost never take part in JSF related or partner sponsored shows (FoI).
She has her own show, and sponsors. So in the money department Mao will only be important to sell competitions tickets and generate buzz for the sport.

 

[StitchMonkey]

How much were the loop and axel worth before?
How much were the quads?
That'd be interesting to mark Vancouver programs with the new BV

And I agree for the double axel in the short. That was such a weird rule to keep when they had skaters who could do triple axel. It was detrimental to Mao.
I think they should do the same now with quads for ladies in the short. Yeah maybe no one jumps quad at the moment, but if anybody came to, she couldn't do it in the short.

I think doing so would help to encourage ladies to train it as it has a bigger advantage. It may not feel as worth it to some skaters to put so much work into something they can't even use in the short.

 

[Crystallize]

Actually , as far as I can tell, Mao has very little relationship with JSF money.

She almost never take part in JSF related or partner sponsored shows (FoI).
She has her own show, and sponsors. So in the money department Mao will only be important to sell competitions tickets and generate buzz for the sport.

My point was really that Mao IS bringing money to JSF through anything that she does related to figure skating. Even when she is doing those shows, JSF, I would assume, is getting something from it. The same with tickets sold for competitions in Japan. If that's not the case, I'd be surprised.

Yuzuru is popular and I'm sure he's bringing in plenty of money, but if there was a possibility for Mao to return and continue the cash flow, then I'm sure JSF would jump on it. They can't force her to skate of course, but they could heavily encourage it.

 

[daphenaxa]

Historically, the requirements for the short program have tended to lag behind the skills of the skaters at the very top. The rationale for this was that in the short program (unlike the "free" program) the iSU wanted to compare apples to apples. That is, they want all of the skaters to do the same elements and to be judged on who did those required elements the best. In the past it was even specified which triple (or double) jump the skater must attempt, on a rotating basis. (Nancy Kerrigan hated it when the loop came up. )

One criticism of the current rules is that there are no longer two distinct phases to the competition. There is a program and then there is another program that lasts a little longer. Neither serves the purpose for which they were originally designed.

So again, i don't think anyone was picking on Mao in particular when the ISU played it conservative as long as they could.

Oh that is very interesting! And I understand the point of doing SP with required elements, the same for everyone and that would change every year. And if it had stayed like that, having the girls do double axel wouldn't annoy me. But in 2010 that wasn't the case anymore. The girls could do whatever single triple and jump combination. Only the double axel was still imposed. So it was unfair and illogical.

 

[daphenaxa]

I think doing so would help to encourage ladies to train it as it has a bigger advantage. It may not feel as worth it to some skaters to put so much work into something they can't even use in the short.

completely OT but I wonder if a particularly bold skater did a quad in the short, would the panel really give it a 0 or would they actually mark it as a quad?
Now that would be good skating drama

 

[shiroKJ]

completely OT but I wonder if a particularly bold skater did a quad in the short, would the panel really give it a 0 or would they actually mark it as a quad?
Now that would be good skating drama

Pulling a Bonaly? Sounds amazing But they'll probably mark it as an invalid element, like when a skater zayaks.

 

[StitchMonkey]

completely OT but I wonder if a particularly bold skater did a quad in the short, would the panel really give it a 0 or would they actually mark it as a quad?
Now that would be good skating drama

They score doubles, so who knows.

I could see them marking it as a downgraded quad - making it basically a triple with -GOE.

It could be tricky since they technically would have completed three rotation in one jumps and landed cleanly, they just are tossing in another rotation.

The other thing to consider is that if they put a 4T on the planned elements, they likely would create and issue before it happened. If they put 3T on the planned elements and just did the quad, they might get away with at least getting it called a 3T to match the planned elements.

 

[daphenaxa]

They score doubles, so who knows.

I could see them marking it as a downgraded quad - making it basically a triple with -GOE.

It could be tricky since they technically would have completed three rotation in one jumps and landed cleanly, they just are tossing in another rotation.

The other thing to consider is that if they put a 4T on the planned elements, they likely would create and issue before it happened. If they put 3T on the planned elements and just did the quad, they might get away with at least getting it called a 3T to match the planned elements.

Yeah now that you are saying that and I am thinking about it, they probably would just mark it as a triple maybe. I don't really see why they would mark it as a downgraded jump. There is no penalty for overrotating is it?

 

[cruzceleste]

My point was really that Mao IS bringing money to JSF through anything that she does related to figure skating. Even when she is doing those shows, JSF, I would assume, is getting something from it. The same with tickets sold for competitions in Japan. If that's not the case, I'd be surprised.

Yuzuru is popular and I'm sure he's bringing in plenty of money, but if there was a possibility for Mao to return and continue the cash flow, then I'm sure JSF would jump on it. They can't force her to skate of course, but they could heavily encourage it.

Mao stopped being supported by JSF since Vancouver, so I will guess she no longer part with profits to them. That's the point of having her own show, so she doesn't own them or pat them anything. She on the other hand must pay taxes, that are very high in Japan, so I guess tecnicly JSF won't get money directly from her, Japan hacienda will.

True Mao will help with tickets sales, but is not enough of a reason to demonize JSF as a big bad agency pushing her to do something she doesn't want to.

BTW, does anyone knows how a show get santionized by ISU?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Yeah now that you are saying that and I am thinking about it, they probably would just mark it as a triple maybe. I don't really see why they would mark it as a downgraded jump. There is no penalty for overrotating is it?

Mostly to acknowledge the fact they were trying to do something different and discourage it. It give the skater the same base score as a triple, but force the judges to give -GOE so as to not reward the rule breaking.

 

[Crystallize]

Mao stopped being supported by JSF since Vancouver, so I will guess she no longer part with profits to them. That's the point of having her own show, so she doesn't own them or pat them anything. She on the other hand must pay taxes, that are very high in Japan, so I guess tecnicly JSF won't get money directly from her, Japan hacienda will.

True Mao will help with tickets sales, but is not enough of a reason to demonize JSF as a big bad agency pushing her to do something she doesn't want to.

BTW, does anyone knows how a show get santionized by ISU?

I'm not trying to demonize JSF and I don't think anyone else is either. Like I said, they can't force her to skate. I just think it's important to point out that the pressure is there. And the pressure wouldn't be just from JSF, but the public as well. She might feel an obligation to her fans to return, but I hope that's not the case.

And I'm not sure what you mean about Mao no longer being supported by JSF after Vancouver. I might have missed something? I assume that she continued, and will continue should she return, to receive monetary support from them.

 

[cruzceleste]

I'm not trying to demonize JSF and I don't think anyone else is either. Like I said, they can't force her to skate. I just think it's important to point out that the pressure is there. And the pressure wouldn't be just from JSF, but the public as well. She might feel an obligation to her fans to return, but I hope that's not the case.

And I'm not sure what you mean about Mao no longer being supported by JSF after Vancouver. I might have missed something? I assume that she continued, and will continue should she return, to receive monetary support from them.

I mean being supported from the economic point. By example Yuzuru and Daisuke were JOC Athletes and JSF managed their sponsors in exchange they got money from JSF but they are contractually obligated to take part in shows, etc.

Mao on the other hand doesn't get monetary support, or if she does is minimal, so she doesn't do shows and doesn't appear in events unless is the same as her personal sponsors. Mao if I remember correctly has been value in a net worth over $5mio, so for her continue to being independent from JSF and doing her own show and sponsors is better for her.

 

[Mathman]

completely OT but I wonder if a particularly bold skater did a quad in the short, would the panel really give it a 0 or would they actually mark it as a quad?

One problem is that the quad would either have to be in combination or immediately proceeded by footwork. Even for men, quads in the short program were rare until recently because of this restriction (although the "preceding steps" requirement is not very rigorously enforced).

By the way -- thanks, Wikipedia -- quads for men were first allowed in the short program in 1998 (after the Olympics). The first man to do a quad in the short program was Min Zhang at 1999 Four Continents. The first man to do two quads in the short program was Kevin Reynolds, who did 4S+3T and 4T at Skate Canada in 2010.

Nowadays a quad in the short is essentially required if you want to win.

For ladies, Tuktamysheva must be the only lady ever to do a triple Axel AND a triple Lutz AND a triple-triple in the short program.

 

[Barb]

what time is the press conference?