Mens Final Standings

[manhn]

Listening to the critique by many of you, your thinking has moved on to the new points system. In that system, Jeff Buttle couldn't have won with the jumps he did. To me, that does sound more fair.

You don't know that. The new judging system still has anonymous and random judging.

 

[chels]

Here's a good article about the controversial men's free skate. It gives some good info on why the outcome was the way it was.

http://www.skatecanada.ca/english/continents/news/newsjan24_2.html

 

[Ladskater]

shine:

In only 2 hours I'll be able to scream Ryan Jahnke WUZ ROBBED!!!!!!!!

Many times our Canadian skaters have been "robbed" in the past. Jeff, himself was surprised that he won; he knew it was not his best skate technically, but overall he had the best program artistically. Even Paul Martini did not agree with outcome so getting on ones' "high horse" here about location is a waste of breath.

The Four Continents is not the Canadians nor is it Skate Canada - just because it was held here in Canada does not mean the judges were all Canadian. There were judges from all over.

Under the 6.0 system Jeff was in first place going into the long program. He made a couple of mistakes, but managed to hold the program together with his artistic abilities (that does count for something). In the past the figures were always the deciding factor under the 6.0 system even if the skater did not have a great skate. I did not see his short program, but it must have been good, as he was in first place.

Until the scoring system gets ironed out and they stick to one system there is going to be continual controversy.

 

[Ladskater]

RealtorGal :

As we say in real estate, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION

You are kidding right?

Both the US ladies had the gold medal right in the "palms of their hands" and they botched it - that was not location.

 

[Antilles]

I was there, and I thought it was just weird. I do think Lysacek and Jahnke had the performances of the night. Sandhu ad-libbed like crazy after a bad opening. His presentation is every bit as good as Buttle's, so he also could have won on the second mark. A lot of people seemed flabbergasted last night. I really don't know how I would have called it for gold. Very strange event.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Emanuel landed a quad toe (not a perfect landing but good enough to add a double loop) as did MA, GAO and TAKAHASHI. In addition to Emanuel's quad toe he landed at least 5 clean triples. One of the landings had no flow out, but it was clean. There was another triple which he may have 2 footed slightly.

Jeff landed 5 triples, but one of them was repeated and not in combination, I think. He doubled 2 jumps and popped one. The technical difficulty jump wise just wasn't there.

Sandhu had turns out of his 4T, which he rotated into a double-footed 2L that stopped his momentum. His only clean triples were the 3A and 3F he did in combination; he double-footed each of the second jump (toes). He stepped out of the 3R and 3S, fell out of the solo 3A landing, and double-footed the solo 3F.

Buttle had no combos but two sequences -- a 3S to 3T and a 1R to 3R (improvised). He also had a beautiful 3F, an opening solo 3T, and a wonky 3A, as well as several doubles (2A, 2Z).

 

[Cleo]

shine:


Under the 6.0 system Jeff was in first place going into the long program. He made a couple of mistakes, but managed to hold the program together with his artistic abilities (that does count for something). In the past the figures were always the deciding factor under the 6.0 system even if the skater did not have a great skate. I did not see his short program, but it must have been good, as he was in first place.

Until the scoring system gets ironed out and they stick to one system there is going to be continual controversy.

Re your first sentence, yes, good artistry and holding it together should count if one is having jump problems. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that had Jahnke landed only four triples he would have been severely punished by the judges in his presentation marks. Just look at the short program where he had a few minor mistakes; his, Jeff's and Eman's tech marks were similar, but Jeff's and Eman's presentation marks were far, far higher than Ryan's. It's called reputation or protocol judging, and it happened to Ryan at Skate Canada as well. IMO Ryan's presentation is just as good as Jeff and Eman. In fact, these three guys are my favorites because of their artistry. But when they are all equal in the second mark, then the first mark has to decide. And it sounds like Ryan was superior to Eman, who was superior to Jeff. But we'll hopefully see on ABC in a couple of weeks. (Argh! Two weeks! Too long to wait!)

Agree with your second sentence re the scoring systems. What a crock! This "interim system" is totally non-transparent.

 

[mike79]

IMO, Sandhu should have won. He had the technical difficulty with 2 3/3 combo's and a quad/2 combo, as well as other triples. Although it wasn't the cleanest skate, it also had all of the in-betweens that Buttle and Jahnke had.

I would have placed Jahnke second with a fabulous skate that just didn't have the technical difficulty to match Sandhu.

Lysacek had a good skate but it was rather amateurish compared to the top guns, at least artistically.

Buttle should have been no higher than 4th in the LP. It was mistake after mistake for him. Yes he has an amazingly well choreographed program but it wasn't up to any kind of world class skate.

As most people are pointing out this is a great example of why CoP has to be implemented on a full time basis. Buttle didn't even win the most 1st place ordinals.

 

[curious]

ClICHE, CLICHE, CLICHE.

but is true,true,true

 

[Sk8n Mama]

Okay, I watched this on CBC yesterday. IM humble O, no way should Jeff Buttle have won but look at the marks-they were all over the place! I do know he couldn't possibly have won in the points system; watch the tapes, count the points. There is no way because his technical mark would have been way too low.

I thought the two Americans stepped up in this case, but I also agree that their artistic is not in the same league as jeff Buttle and Emmanuel Sandhu. I thought Evan Lysacek's choreograohy was quite 'junior' and comparable to the Canadian men going to Jr Worlds. Also, the arm flailing was distracting! He has to work on that. I don't think Artistic should count enough to have someone who skates like Jeff did place ahead of someone who skates like Evan did, though.

In my opinion, the skate of the night belonged to Ben Ferreira. despite the miss on the quad and the flub on the loop, I thought it was great. To me, he was the only one who delivered jumps and charisma. I loved it and think, had he not goofed in the short, the title could have been his.

I still think the right 2 for worlds are Ben and Emmanuel for Canada. But could someone please tell Emmanuel to relax and just go for it? He really just tried too hard and overthought the jumps making his artistic 'lackluster'. He needs to just relax and get out there and enjoy himself! Muscle memory will take care of the rest.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

You guys have boggled my mind on how well or badly these skaters performed. I hope we get to see as many as possible on TV on Saturday and Sunday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there will be no interruptions by ABC.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

IMO, Sandhu should have won. He had the technical difficulty with 2 3/3 combo's and a quad/2 combo, as well as other triples. Although it wasn't the cleanest skate, it also had all of the in-betweens that Buttle and Jahnke had...
Buttle should have been no higher than 4th in the LP. It was mistake after mistake for him. .

I have to disagree with you. Sandhu had two clean jumps in total, three if you count the popped 1A. Not a single solo jump or total combination was clean, and his final spin was off balance. I think his in-betweens suffered as he tried to throw in more jumps at the end, which marred the musical continuity of his program and reduced the number of in-betweens.

Buttle may not have landed high technical content, but, overall, I think his spins and footwork were superior, and his moves in the field were superb. It was not just the choreographic content; it was the way he executed them at top form. Apart from the lean on the 3A, the rest of his jumps were clean, even if two were downgraded to doubles.

I would say that "mistake after mistake" applied to Sandhu, whose botched landings stopped the momemtum of his program. I also think his presentation was overrated, given the number of stumbles out of his jumps, and his last-minute improvisations, which also affected the overall flow and musical interpretation.

IMO, if there was any skater who combined technical content with presentation skills, it was Jahnke.

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

What does location have to do with it? They're all ISU judges. I'll wait until it is televised. Then decide for myself...they probably won't show them all anyway.

They're all ISU judges, but the event was in Canada. Oftentimes, a "hometown" advantage is evident for skaters.

 

[supersk8er]

I watched the competition for the first time yesterday, and I DO like Jeff Buttle more than Emanuel Sandhu, but I thought Emanuel got horribly robbed. I thought Jeff made more visible mistakes, and I thought Emanuel's program flowed better. Hmph..

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As I said in the ABC Coverage thread, Evan was the only clean skater in the mix. No falls; no errors; 3Ax2T; 3A, great flow; a little immature in presentation.

There are six ways the 3 top finishers could finish. I would not object to any scramble of the placements. BTW, none of them had a majority of first places.

I also watched the ESPN version last night which included Ryan Jahnke. His LP was the best in the competition but I believe he was far down on the Short Program.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

His LP was the best in the competition but I believe he was far down on the Short Program.Joe

Jahnke was 5th after the SP.

Had he come in first in the LP, he would have been second in the competition if the results were Jahnke/Buttle/anyone else, because he would have had 3.5, compared to 2.5 for Buttle, or if the results were Jahnke/Tamura/anyone else, because he would have had 3.5 compared to 3.0 for Tamura.

He would have come in first if the results were Jahnke/not Buttle or Tamura/anyone else, because even if Buttle came in third or Sandhu came in second, Jahnke would have won on a 3.5 tie-break with a win in the LP.

Isn't that clear as mud?

 

[dr.frog]

I also watched the ESPN version last night which included Ryan Jahnke. His LP was the best in the competition but I believe he was far down on the Short Program.

You can't blame Jahnke's 4th-place finish on being "far down on the Short Program". He was 5th in both the short and long programs. The real question is why the judges only put the best LP of the competition 5th!

 

[Verbalgirl77]

I don't think anyone's saying Jahnke should have won the event. However, the fact that he finished 5th in the LP is ridiculous.

 

[RealtorGal]

I would hardly call Sandhu "robbed". What a boring program! And he moved sooooo slowly. If I had to choose between him and Buttle, I would have gone with Buttle. Of course, Jahnke was better than both of them, no question about that.

 

[lil lion 816]

Well, I'm glad I was able to take a look at this competition with my own eyes at last, and with Ryan Jahnke included.

I didn't see the Japanese men's free skates, but I find it hard to believe that they could have topped Ryan's program.

I like Jeff's skating, I like Emanuel's skating - but as far as a complete and coherent and well-skated program, well, Ryan had both of them outgunned.
I really don't know why Ryan wasn't on the podium somewhere.
<--------can't figure out how that free skate was place *fifth* either!!!!