Mens LP

[Mathman]

Btw, I really don't think Johnny would have figured in this. Good he stayed away.

Good he stayed away? I hope that isn't Johnny's competitive attitude. He could stay away from every competition for the rest of his life, then he would never lose.

Evan was a fool to go to 4CC. He has lost 3 competitions to Takahashi this season and now heads to Worlds after skating the worst FS of the year, even losing to Buttle, who didn't have a great FS either.

I totally disagree. If you are an athlete, you compete, taking on all comers. If you lose, you lose.

Would you want Evan to withdraw from competition trembling in fear just because he sees the name "Takahashi" in the lists?

Is it me or does COP seems to be putting quality over quantity this year. Weir and Buttle beating Evan in international events and Takahashi's short program score.

As Medusa mentioned, I think we are seeing the judges make more use of positive GOEs than in the past. It is quite possible that this is deliberate policy on the part of the ISU to up the ante on "quality."

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

I'm just glad that if someone is going to get outrageous PCS marks that it's someone with some artistry and choreography to their skating.

ITA. Especially since PCS is supposed to represent the old "artistic" mark.

Had Johnny Weir gone to this competition, he could easily have won silver. But he was smart to stay away and keep his focus on the big dance in March.

Once again, ITA.

 

[jennylovskt]

Had Johnny Weir gone to this competition, he could easily have won silver. But he was smart to stay away and keep his focus on the big dance in March.

I am not in the least surprised that Takahashi won so easily. Takahashi's last competition was Nationals at the end of December. He had 6 weeks of rest, and only a short trip from Japan to Korea. 4CC was a showcase competition for him, and a great tightener for Worlds.

Evan was a fool to go to 4CC. He has lost 3 competitions to Takahashi this season and now heads to Worlds after skating the worst FS of the year, even losing to Buttle, who didn't have a great FS either.

I agree. Johnny will get silver easily. What would Evan become if Johnny were there? Terrible to think of that way for Evan. I wish Johnny will have a great showing at the Worlds.

It's not surprising at all that Evan could not beat Takahashi. What's surprised me was he even lost to Jeffrey Buttle who has been having jumping problems all season long. It's not a good image for the judges to bring to the Worlds.

 

[museksk8r]

:agree: to MathMan for your above post. Kudos to rational, unbiased thinking! :thumbsup:

 

[Vodka Shot]

I don't think Lysacek should have gone to 4CC, not to avoid Takahashi or to avoid a possible loss, but to be better prepared for Worlds. No-one is going to care in a decade who won 4CC, it's those World placements that matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, a great competitor always wants to compete, but I think a great competitor wants to win the big events more. By going to 4CC Lysacek not only wore himself out, he's also now going into Worlds with a recent loss on the minds of the judges.

 

[chuckm]

Would you want Evan to withdraw from competition trembling in fear just because he sees the name "Takahashi" in the lists?As Medusa mentioned, I think we are seeing the judges make more use of positive GOEs than in the past. It is quite possible that this is deliberate policy on the part of the ISU to up the ante on "quality."

No, I think Evan's FS at Nationals was messy and definitely needed work before he could hope to challenge for the podium at Worlds.

He was coming off less than two week's rest since Nationals, had a long trip to Korea, and was clearly exhausted right from the start of his FS. Evan has a constant problem with colds and respiratory illnesses, and in his current state, he could easily pick up another bug traveling back to the US. He has had a long season, with two GPs and the GPF, then Nationals, and then a quick turnaround to 4CC. Now he will have lost more than a week of practice and will have to deal with jet lag when he gets home.

Buttle, OTOH, had nothing to lose. He didn't get to the GPF, and this was a chance for him to get on the podium with two of the top men. Beating Lysacek was a feather in his cap and a confidence builder heading into Worlds. And Buttle had an additional week of rest after Canadian Nationals before heading out to Korea.

If Evan hadn't gone to 4CC, Stephen Carriere would have won the bronze medal, and that would have been a great setup for HIS first trip to Worlds.

 

[museksk8r]

I personally think the judges would be more likely to favor the skaters who are competitors that like and thrive off of competition and a challenge. It displays to the judges that you are gutsy and that you are willing to test your endurance. I would think it can be a positive sign to give the ISU to compete at both 4CC and Worlds, but that's just my opinion.

A simple 2toe would have put Lysacek above Buttle. I don't think the placements and points between the two say a whole lot. Jeffrey was far from clean in the LP and Evan did beat him convincingly in the SP. Lysacek only completed one combination jump pass and he normally does 3 when he performs better. It was just one off night for him and I don't think the narrow miss on silver will affect him much in preparation for Worlds.

Good luck to all the skaters at Worlds . . . may they all skate great! :yes:

 

[jennylovskt]

If you are an athlete, you compete, taking on all comers. If you lose, you lose.

I think this is not always the right thing to do. Athletes do not equal to "Robots" programmed by their coaches. I, for one, like the athletes who use their own brains sometimes. They are smart athletes.

 

[Tonichelle]

going along with MM's post

we the fans complain that the networks don't take skating as a serious sport like football/hockey/baseball/etc.

yet we also think skaters are foolish for competing in every competition they're invited/allowed to go to.

Not only that but when Evan was having to pull out of competitions a few seasons ago due to injury people were saying he was wrong to do so. Now he's hitting everything and he's wrong. Evan has said in multiple interviews that he wants to see his sport get back in the spotlight in the US. The way to do that is to go to competitions and at least try to get on top. You can't do that sitting at home, and yeah, he didn't get the results he wanted, and yeah it's not the world championships, but it's not an exhibition either.

double standards are the most frustrating part of this "sport"

 

[Hsuhs]

I definitely preferred Evan's attitude (reg 4CC). At least, he's tried.

Daisuke, on the other hand, had a new pair of boots to break in just a week prior to the event.

 

[Tinymavy15]

wow to takahaski. yeah, his PCS scores are inflated, but i can't wait to see it nontheless. Poor Evan, falling on the quad. such a pity, it was so great in the SP.

 

[Mathman]

No-one is going to care in a decade who won 4CC, it's those World placements that matter in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with half of this and disagree with the other half.

I agree than no-one is going to care in a decade who won 4CC.

I disagree with the claim that Worlds placements matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That seems a little harsh. Takahashi was untouchable, but I think Johnny could have easily been in the hunt for silver or bronze.

Of course. Jeff and Evin were. Why not Johnny? Why did he not come? Does anyone know?

Joe

 

[Medusa]

"I am back on the ice already preparing for the World Championships in Sweden, but the trip to South Korea and competing again just a few weeks after the U.S. Championships seemed too tall an order," Johnny said in a news release. "“I am completely focused on performing well and competing with the world's best in Sweden. I'll be rooting for all the U.S. skaters at Four Continents."

That's from Johnny's official website. If you are naive read: "I was so tired and exhausted" - if you can handle the truth read: "It wasn't worth the effort and risk, stupid competition anyway." Of course that's my interpretation.

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

Of course. Jeff and Evin were. Why not Johnny? Why did he not come? Does anyone know?

Joe

Well, I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming the massive travel had something to do with it. Johnny hasn't done 4 CC's since, what, 2002? I'm too lazy to look it up, but it's been quite a while. Why should he do it now? He's better served using the time to practice and tweak his programs for Worlds.

On a similar note, why didn't Tanith and Ben do 4 CC's? Were they afraid of losing? Or were they just unwilling to travel halfway around the world to compete in a throw-away competition? Maybe they decided their best bet was to stay home and train, train, train. Same for Johnny, I would assume.

 

[seafoam]

That's from Johnny's official website. If you are naive read: "I was so tired and exhausted" - if you can handle the truth read: "It wasn't worth the effort and risk, stupid competition anyway." Of course that's my interpretation.

I think both are probably true

Evan did what he and his coach thought was best for him. Johnny did what he and his coach thought was best for him. (And does anybody seriously believe that Johnny wouldn't have gone if Galina Z. had really wanted him to? That's one formidable Russian lady.) Keep in mind, too, that Johnny would have had quite a bit more travel time than Evan, coming from the east coast. Neither was being stupid or uncompetitive, IMO.

One thing is for sure; if both Takahashi and Lambiel bring it for Worlds, it'll be incredible! So looking forward to that battle.

And now I've probably jinxed them

 

[oleada]

going along with MM's post

we the fans complain that the networks don't take skating as a serious sport like football/hockey/baseball/etc.

yet we also think skaters are foolish for competing in every competition they're invited/allowed to go to.

Well, honestly, this is not true. I'm a big tennis fan and tennis players don't always participate in the all tournaments that they are allowed to participate and fans often think that the ones that participate in too many tournaments are foolish for over-exerting themselves. It's not a phenomenon limited to skating.

 

[Hsuhs]

And now I've probably jinxed them

Dream on.

 

[enlight78]

I think figure skating is such a strange sport. The fact that Takahashi and Mao was at 4CC made it a Major event. If I was johnny weir, I would want to go against takahashi and evan as many times as possible before worlds. The sport need more elite skaters that love to compete. Endurance is something that you can always improve. In all the skaters are only competing in six events a season at most. Some only do two.

 

[Marine63]

Compared to Takahashi, Jeffrey Buttle was skating in kindergarden.
Takahashi: two quads, two 3As.
Buttle: one 3A, two 2As, one fall on 3lutz.

I'm not happy about Buttle's scores(150 pts). He was way overmarked again.

Thanks. I've been saying this for yrs. He's never skated a clean LP that I know of. He usually has a least one fall, a wonky landing, only one 3/3 which is the 3rd easiest combo, 3F/3T and he does only one 3/A. His TES should be much lower than the skaters who finished behind him.