Theoretical Top Score for a Ladies LP with only regular Triples | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Theoretical Top Score for a Ladies LP with only regular Triples

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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I wonder if any high profile already had a planned 2F or 2Lz in the free skate. It might worth it BV and GOE wise but judges probably expect more.

I've been saying since the 2010-2011 season than a planned 2Lz is a benefit for many of the Ladies. Nobody has taken advantage of it, except for the very low level competitors who only have 3T and 3S for Triples, and need to fill their last jump box with another element. Yu-Na Kim could have still been doing her very impressive 2A+3T (and had higher base value) by throwing in a 2Lz at the end of the program, and Kostner with that boring 3T+2T could have been doing 2Lz+3T instead.
 
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Skatesocs

Final Flight
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May 16, 2020
Yu-Na Kim could have still been doing her very impressive 2A+3T (and had higher base value) by throwing in a 2Lz at the end of the program, and Kostner with that boring 3T+2T could have been doing 2Lz+3T instead.
Yeah, and then we'd have had moaning about how she won with "1984 content and PCS" :laugh: Or how she deserved to lose for "not developing" or whatever.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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I disagree, double jumps are definitely visually interesting, when utilized and executed properly. They create a whole different expression. 3Lutz+2Toe evokes a softer or less rushed feeling than 3Lutz+3Toe for example, and 2Lz+3Toe makes the second jump seem especially important, going from something smaller to something bigger. These nuances are completely lost in modern skating choreography and interpretation though. A shame.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
I disagree, double jumps are definitely visually interesting, when utilized and executed properly. They create a whole different expression. 3Lutz+2Toe evokes a softer or less rushed feeling than 3Lutz+3Toe for example, and 2Lz+3Toe makes the second jump seem especially important, going from something smaller to something bigger. These nuances are completely lost in modern skating choreography and interpretation though. A shame.
I think it depends on the program and choreography. I just took yume's post to mean doubles aren't visually interesting on their own. Which I somewhat agree with, after being spoiled for great 3Lz jumps and a particularly good 4Lz lol.

I'd love to see someone train a delayed 2Lz though!
Shame that I've only ever seen what appears to be a recreational skater do it recently (and it's as "recent" as 2012 lol).
 

yume

Record Breaker
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Mar 11, 2016
I disagree, double jumps are definitely visually interesting, when utilized and executed properly. They create a whole different expression. 3Lutz+2Toe evokes a softer or less rushed feeling than 3Lutz+3Toe for example, and 2Lz+3Toe makes the second jump seem especially important, going from something smaller to something bigger. These nuances are completely lost in modern skating choreography and interpretation though. A shame.
I find 3+2 combos kinda meh.
But i'm not against a 2lz+3lo or a 2lo+3lo like Midori was doing. I think it would have been more impressive if Mao had done 2lo+3lo in the SP instead of 3lo-2lo.
 

GarthAqua

On the Ice
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Feb 14, 2018
half-loop+3F combo doesn't provide any real benefit unless you are already doing so many difficult jumps in your program that you can't fit both the 3F and 3S. In every other situation, it's only a .1 base value increase IF doing that combo in the second half of the program and having a solo 3S in the first half. Even then, you need to be doing the 3F on the back of 2A (rather than something like 3Lz+1Eu+3F), or else you just lose out with GOE.

Here is the highest possible scoring jump layout someone could do with eu+3F combo in a 7-Triple program.

2A = 4.95 points
3S = 6.45 points
3F = 7.95 points
3Lz = 8.85 points
2Lz+3Lo = 10.15 points
2A+1Eu+3F = 12.66 points
3Lz+3T = 14.06 points

It's worth .88 less than the best jump layout, which has +2Lo+2Lo instead.

half-loop combos are bad in these maximized 7-triple jump plans because they force you to include a low .5 value element. In terms of realistic value, they are only worth it if a skater has trouble doing +2T+2Lo (or +2Lo+2Lo) as their 3-jump combo, or if skater has trouble with other +3(x) combos and can do the eu+3(x) consistently.
I was talking about Arthur Dmitriev jr. He did 3Lz3F in 18-19 season. That was a very unusual jump, he landed his 3Lz on the left inside edge and did a 3F after that.
So maybe 2A3F or 3Lz2Lo2F layout can be performed.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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I was talking about Arthur Dmitriev jr. He did 3Lz3F in 18-19 season. That was a very unusual jump, he landed his 3Lz on the left inside edge and did a 3F after that.

Oh right, that. It's essentially impossible to get high GOE on that combo, which makes it not worthwhile. If someone could somehow do it with +5 GOE though, then it would increase the top scoring "only Triples" jump layout by .44 points, because it would mean one 2Lo gets replaced for a 2Lz.

In jump layouts with higher difficulty jumps though, the direct 3F combo would let the 1Eu get replaced by 2Lo, for a 1.32 base value advantage.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
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Jun 6, 2019
2A - 3.3
2A - 3.3
2Lz - 0.9 (can't remember 2lz BV)
2Lz

3S+3T - 8.5 x 1.1
3Lz+3Lo - 10.8 x 1.1
3Lz+3F+3F 16.5 x 1.1
(This puts all 7 triples in second half. Can't get higher triple value than this)
Somebody else can do the maths, but this is the maximum possible.

Edit: with all elements +5 and max spins and max PCS, the answer is 170.28
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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^ It should be 170.78 if I didn't add something wrong.

Would also improve to 171.28 by ordering those Triples so that every combo uses either the Lutz or Flip factoring for GOE, you don't want to be doing 3S+3T for an ideal layout.

If we are going really crazy though and including all the jumps as back-end combos that can get top GOE, then this is the highest scoring "no jump harder than 3Lz" layout possible:

3T = 6.3 points
3S = 6.45 points
3Lo = 7.35 points
3F = 7.95 points
3Lz+2Lz+2Lz = 14.06 points (the same score as 3Lz+3T)
2A+3Lz = 13.07 points
2A+3F = 12.11 points

Tech Score: 93.94 points, PCS: 80.0 points, TOTAL SCORE: 173.94 points. Having no Triple-Triple would become the best scoring jump layout possible. :coffee:

Um, good luck ever doing a 2A+3Lz though. Would require a very, very specific kind of skater with amazing ambidexterity. 3Lz+2Lz+2Lz is more realistic, although still insanely hard and not actually realistic. It would look great though if really well executed! Floaty movement in constantly opposite directions. And of course it would have to be beautifully timed to the music since these are max PCS programs. Because we know judges require amazing artistry to get top PCS...:rofl:ha...ha..
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
Well it's a nice crack thread. I do think Satoko can do it, because she can just pre-rotate a full turn in any direction (also why I suggested it for Eteri skaters).
 
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