Re: Artistry and Spinning: General Comments
Excidra--ITA with you about Irina's presentation and artistry. Irina doesn't have a lot of fans on this board, but every time I've seen her with COI, which was up until 2000, her programs got a bigger response from the audience than Michelle's. I know, nobody ever believes me, and I'm sure Michelle got a much bigger ovation than anyone else in the show with "FOG." Anyway, the point is, I think Irina has wonderful presentation and artistic skills and the programs you mentioned are excellent examples. Unfortunately, her choreography tends to run hot and cold. This year "La Traviata" has practically no choreographic cohesiveness at all. The choreography for Michelle, at least the programs by Lori Nichol and Sarah Kawahawa's "FOG," has always been outstanding.
I disagree with Ogre Mage (love your name, btw) about Irina's posture. I think her posture wonderful, one of the best. Her leg line is poor because of her bowed legs and lack of foot point, but her carriage and posture are great and the way she uses her upper body is very expressive. Irina and Angela, IMO, are two of the most beautifully expressive skaters with the arms and upper bodies.
Interesting point about getting the technical first and then the artistic/presentation. I really think it depends on the skater. Goebel, for example, had/has such severe limitations with his presentation that I think he should have been urged to work on it earlier. Although I think it's true what Joe says, that poor presenation doesn't hurt you as much with the scoring as much as poor technical ability, Tim was so reliant on his quads that now with his hip injuries, he may not have much of a career left. I think if a skater has good basics, like posture, carriage, line, sense of music, then it's fine to concentrate on the technical and let the artistic/presentation side emerge as the skater matures--if they have a chance to mature before they get injured. If the skater is obviously weak in these areas, however, then I agree with Steve that it is very difficult to learn good presentation/artistic skills later in one's career. With Vika, however, I don't find her lacking in presentation as much as I find her lacking in consistency. When she skates well, I love her natural, unaffected style. It's just that when she makes mistakes, which is often, she loses all confidence and the presentation just falls apart. For me, Vika is a complex situation where she has both the technical and presentational abilities; she just can't perform them consistently at competitions.
Joe--Well said about being able to appreciate a skater without being a fan.
ApacheApach--Am glad what I said made sense to you
Eltamina--I remember seeing Sarah doing a donut spin too, but only once or twice. I can't remember in what program, but I distinctly remember thinking, "Sarah has a pretty good donut spin." Sorry, wish I could remember when I saw it. I think Sarah has the flexibility and general movement ability to do a lot of different kinds of spin positions.
Fetal--ROLFMAO at the ET cartoon. I'm so jealous of your new emoticons. I went to that joke website but couldn't find the vomit emoticon, even when I looked up all of them. I have other emoticon and cartoon sites. I'm just too lazy to link them in.
Back to spinning: Carlantz--I do think Lucinda Ruh is one of the fastest spinners out there; however, it's not just her speed. Having had the privilege of seeing her live and talking to her a bit (nice person), what impressed me most was how long she could spin and maintain speed and centering. She can even increase speed within a spin without the using the usual biomechanical methods (ie, pulling in the extremities). She said she really feels like she's in a meditative state when she spins for a long time. This doesn't surprise me. Various religious groups--the Shakers come to mind first--have used movements like stomping and spinning to work themselves into an ecstatic state. I remember reading that Lucinda can do 270rpm and has a tape that she intends to submit to The Guinness Book of World Records, but check out the interview she did for GS (thanks Paula!):
goldenskate.com/articles/...3002.shtml
for details.
Rgirl
