Mr. Sulu wants to move Sochi Olympics to Vancouver

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

and Canada isn't really a bastion for human rights, there is no such thing as a country for freedom
take your press and media with a grain of salt, who more are nothing but lying manipulative people who seek their own personal views to the mass
the two dirtiest job in the World are politicians and journalists,two opposing with corrupt views

Please do explain how Canada's human rights record is comparable to Russia and China. I would love to hear your insights. I wouldn't be surprised if you were fine with the next Olympics being held in North Korea.

 

[leoncorazon]

Also, assuming that "senility" was the word that a certain poster intended to use as an insult, that's an extremely ableist remark. Yes, GS is primarily a forum about figure skating and not politics nor social justice but, like most Internet forums, we have rules as a community and surely a little civility is not an unreasonable expectation?[/QUOTE]

Here here!

 

[sky_fly20]

Repetitive overunes like it's the biggest human rights crime ever? This is about people being persecuted for who they are... thrown in jail, facing fines... encouraging violence against LGBT people by turning a blind eye... it is oppression at its worst. Yes, there are problems elsewhere in the world, but there are several countries that could hold an Olympics which have better human rights track records than Russia or China. Every country has its issues, but Russia demonizes a considerable part of the population as well as demonizes anyone who comes to Russia who is of that denomination. Can you really support a country that would remove children from families who have raised them, or who would throw somebody in jail just for holding their partner's hand? Oh, wait, I forgot, the prestige of Russia is on the line so let's all pretend that it's okay and not speak up or hold them accountable.

You're basically saying that because several countries are homophobic or indifferent towards homophobic acts then it's okay for Russia to be homophobic. If the Olympics were held in Saudi Arabia or Qatar, homophobia would be just one of the many issues, along with these countries' gross gender rights issues.

Let me put it this way: nobody gives a crap about the Olympics being open to gays... they care about *Russia* being open to LGBT people. Sensible people, including Takei, aren't suggesting we boycott the Olympics... they are suggesting we boycott RUSSIA -- as in boycott our support of a country that is so grossly incriminating of LGBT people. It just so happens that the Olympics are the time Putin decides to institute these laws... which was frankly terrible timing for him if he wanted to actually suppress LGBT rights in Russia (since there's been such an outcry), and a perfect time for the rest of the world to actually take a stand.

And the Russian government promising that LGBT athletes/etc. will not be harmed is BS... "Let's all ensure that we have a happy Olympics that isn't marred by any issues. But please make sure you get the hell out after the Olympics are over otherwise we'll toss you in jail." That is beyond messed up.

thrown in jail is only for inciting mass unsanctioned rallies then you will be realeased within days more like hefty fines
the Russian Olympic comittee already said it wont affect foreigners or visitors during Olympic in their recent statement
the law is aimed at protecting propganda for children

and No, you are the ignorant not all the World holds liberal views, in fact everyone clings to their own cultural political spectrum
a testament to that is Afghanistan, after thousands of years of foreign people imopsing their own views nothing has changed
Russia is an illiberal country where not only politicains but average citizens view homosexualit as foreign made who aims to attack traditional values
even morso in the Russian South who holds still deep conservative values. the child adoption is a touchy subject but more the concern the child will be robbed of his culture and name. changing their names without any ethnic trace is really horrible. Dmitry Soldatov changed to William Myers e.g.
just to name some

so what happens after the Olympics, suppose its boycotted, do you think it will just open up
and have lesbian/gay marraiges and adoptions ? consider the statistics it the average russian citizen are still against open LGBT behaviors
consider this, a western report cited when " Gay issue divides Russia"
when in fact a recent consisted of 12 people form LGBT inside Russia and its marked out as a huge internal problem

 

[sky_fly20]

Please do explain how Canada's human rights record is comparable to Russia and China. I would love to hear your insights. I wouldn't be surprised if you were fine with the next Olympics being held in North Korea.

look at your own dirty laundry first, Im sure piles on dead children in matts in Afghanistans moutain villages are of no human rights issue
LGBT is the biggest crime in the World of course no poverty, hunger and trafficking can top that

but alas why argue with this type
who probably has the same repititve news media source mouthfed :disapp:

 

[Bluebonnet]

^ I am sure that Takei realizes the impracticality of moving the Olympics. His goal is to put a spotlight on gay rights issues and to get people talking.

Hey, it worked! Here we are talking about it.

You made him sound so strategic and intelligent. So now the strategy is "shoot once, then change place"? So far we've heard boycotting Olympics, changing Olympic venues, and banning Russia from Their own Olympics. Do you mean that these celebrities all didn't mean what they said?

Will you dare to bully a country which has Islamic religion like this?!

 

[sky_fly20]

Will you dare to bully a country which has Islamic religion like this?!

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, * cricket sounds
nope, will be labelled extremist for religious and ethnic hatred with no respect for cultural values
let us respect their wishes *tells western media

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You clearly have a warped sense of what human rights issues actually are. And if you justify throwing people in jail for holding their partner's hand or removing children from families as a means to protect propaganda aimed at children then you are just as bad as the rest of them and it's pointless trying to hold a reasonable discussion with you.

Also, it's SO wonderful to know that the Russian Olympic Committee has the interests of myself and foreigners at heart, but wouldn't hesitate to throw me in jail or fine me the day after the Olympics... and as a foreigner I feel SO privileged to know that Russian LGBT citizens are the only ones who have to face their government's persecution.

And again, pointing to a worse off country is a ridiculous way to suggest things are fine in your country... "Hey, at least we don't kill gays like Uganda. We only throw them in jail! See, Russia's so benevolent... look how good you guys have it here!" Gimme a break. :sarcasm:

 

[leoncorazon]

Gay and lesbian youth are much more likely to be homeless...traficked, abused, murdered and they also have the highest suicide rate among the young...thanks for reminding us sky

 

[Bluebonnet]

This is a pure political thread. It should be merged with the same topic in politics folder.

 

[sky_fly20]

This is a pure political thread. It should be merged with the same topic in politics folder.

yep, this doesnt belong here at all :disapp:
should be moved, now we even have a joiner whose only purpose is to join this debacle

You clearly have a warped sense of what human rights issues actually are. And if you justify throwing people in jail for holding their partner's hand or removing children from families as a means to protect propaganda aimed at children then you are just as bad as the rest of them and it's pointless trying to hold a reasonable discussion with you.

Also, it's SO wonderful to know that the Russian Olympic Committee has the interests of myself and foreigners at heart, but wouldn't hesitate to throw me in jail or fine me the day after the Olympics... and as a foreigner I feel SO privileged to know that Russian LGBT citizens are the only ones who have to face their government's persecution.

"Hey, at least we don't kill gays like Uganda. We only throw them in jail! See, Russia's the good guys!" Gimme a break. .

hat was quoted by Russian Olympic official not me :disapp:
and you are the one who needs to grasp rights at a cultural and internal perspective

let me ask you then, why does it matter so much then at all for this to make such a huge difference or is it deep ingrained hatred for a country ?
would this make a differnce, fly an LGBT Flag in Helmand mountain villages, the middle east or a cossack village in southern Russia
in their eyes what you are doing is direct attack to their own commnity, change will come in time, what is disturbing is imposing ones personal views on another country prematurely* The biggest cause of World problem and Gross violation


like I said: Afghanistan is a testament, a country will in some ways will always hold their own cultural view of freedom
not Alxander the Great, Tamerlan, the british empire, the Soviets, Canadians or Americans can change that

 

[bestskate8]

"Repetitive overtunes like it's the biggest human rights crime ever?" This is about people being persecuted for who they are... thrown in jail, facing fines... encouraging violence against LGBT people by turning a blind eye... it is oppression at its worst. You are saying because it's not the grossest human rights crimes (e.g. mass genocide) that it's not worthy of people standing against it?! Yes, there are problems elsewhere in the world, but there are several countries that could hold an Olympics which have better human rights track records than Russia or China. Every country has its issues, but Russia demonizes a considerable part of the population as well as demonizes anyone who comes to Russia who is of that denomination. Can you really support a country that would remove children from families who have raised them, or who would throw somebody in jail just for holding their partner's hand? Even throw tourists in jail if they're known LGBT people? Oh, wait, I forgot, the prestige of Russia is on the line so let's all pretend that it's okay and not speak up or hold them accountable.

You're basically saying that because several countries are homophobic or indifferent towards homophobic acts then it's okay for Russia to be homophobic. If the Olympics were held in Saudi Arabia or Qatar, homophobia would be just one of the many issues, along with these countries' gross gender rights issues.

Let me put it this way: nobody gives a crap about if the Olympics being open to LGBT people... they care more about *Russia* being open to LGBT people. Sensible people, including Takei, aren't suggesting we boycott the Olympics... they are suggesting we boycott RUSSIA -- as in boycott our support of a country that is so grossly incriminating of LGBT people. It just so happens that the Olympics are the time Putin decides to institute these laws... which was frankly terrible timing for him if he wanted to actually suppress LGBT rights in Russia (since there's been such an outcry), and a perfect time for the rest of the world to actually take a stand.
And the Russian government promising that LGBT athletes/etc. will not be harmed is BS... "Let's all ensure that we have a happy Olympics that isn't marred by any issues. But please make sure you get the hell out after the Olympics are over otherwise we'll toss you in jail." That is beyond messed up.

What a mess in your head

Please read the law first, before starting to humiliate Russian people. You have zero knowledge about Russia and trying to judge the whole multicultural nation by your own little world.

 

[spikydurian]

Moving Sochi Olympics to Vancouver not 'practical,' councillor says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/08/08/bc-takei-vancouver-olympics.html

In this case, the petition is just moot.

 

[Icey]

Let worlds be the "olympics" this year.

 

[Olympia]

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, * cricket sounds
nope, will be labelled extremist for religious and ethnic hatred with no respect for cultural values
let us respect their wishes *tells western media

Actually, that's not the case. Believe me, here in the U.S., the yelling about human rights in places like Saudi Arabia is a lot louder than anything about gays. The whole of America certainly doesn't speak with one voice about gay rights. By contrast, many of the practices in ultraconservative Islamist countries are anathema to both liberals and conservatives in the U.S. Never mind a rainbow flag; I'm told that people aren't allowed to display a Bible in Saudi Arabia because it counts as pro-Christian propaganda. Then there are the rules about what women can and can't do there. Those issues are not coming up here because those countries aren't hosting the Olympics.

What you see here is a range of feelings about Putin's law, from anger to sorrow. I can't speak for everyone here, but many of us greatly admire Russian culture: its music, its literature, its admiration of courage in adversity, certainly its skating. We're not saying anything out of hatred for Russia. But this particular law is not one that will support Russian culture. It endangers people. It makes Russia look bad before the world. (Well, probably not before Qatar and Saudi Arabia, I do grant you that.) It's especially painful to think about this law in a community of skating fans, because let's face it, a lot of skaters, coaches, and choreographers are gay or look gay or hang out with gay teammates and might feel understandably anxious about visiting a country where they could be subject to imprisonment.

 

[Mathman]

Will you dare to bully a country which has Islamic religion like this?!

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, * cricket sounds
nope, will be labelled extremist for religious and ethnic hatred with no respect for cultural values
let us respect their wishes *tells western media

No offense to the Prophet, but the way women, and especially girls, are treated in these countries is an abomination that deserves an unrelenting chorus of condemnation from every nation. Girls are murdered for the sin of wanting to go to school, and the priests cheer the murderers.

ike I said: Afghanistan is a testament, a country will in some ways will always hold their own cultural view of freedom
not Alxander the Great, Tamerlan, the British empire, the Soviets, Canadians or Americans can change that

I'm not Tamerlan , but I have not abandoned hope that the tribalism that plagues these regions will not dominate their culture forever. There are too many points of contact with the outside world to hold out till the end of time. (JMO)

 

[Olympia]

A lot of what happens to women in those countries is not Islamic but a product of local tribal culture. Queen Noor of Jordan once pointed out that Muslim women in the eighth century had some rights (for example, the possibility of inheriting property) that Western women didn't gain for a millenium. The first flowering of the Islamic Empire was a center of learning and the arts, where great works were translated into Arabic (including those of Plato, who was lost to Europeans at that time). Our place-value number system wasn't invented by Arab scholars (it originated in India), but it was perfected by them, and it passed into the West through them. In the old system of Roman numeration, people couldn't multiply and divide except by using counters. (Think about it: XLVIII divided by VIII.) It always saddens me to see what Islamists of today consider to be Islamic culture, because they are throwing away their own heritage. So when we criticize the fact that girls are shot for wanting an education, we're not criticizing Islam at all. Like you, Mathman, I continue to hope for progress.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I wholly agree with the sentiments expressed by Olympia and Mathman.

If you're speeding on the highway and get ticketed, are you going to tell the officer - well, there are people who are going faster than me... doesn't change the fact that you were still speeding. It's a deflection to say "Well, why aren't we pointing fingers at the Middle East?" or "Imagine if the Olympics were in the Middle East" -- doesn't change the fact that these Russian laws are appalling and deserve condemnation from the rest of the world.

 

[Bluebonnet]

No offense to the Prophet, but the way women, and especially girls, are treated in these countries is an abomination that deserves an unrelenting chorus of condemnation from every nation. Girls are murdered for the sin of wanting to go to school, and the priests cheer the murderers.

I bet you will not dare to go into their country and protest this in any forms.

 

[Olympia]

Bluebonnet, you're entitled to your beliefs, but this statement does not support any of your stances. Such a comment is beneath you. Perhaps you just want to discredit Mathman as a critic, but everyone here has a right to state an opinion, as you do.

And since you know nothing about Mathman, you can't be sure what he has or has not done in his life to put himself in danger in the service of social justice.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Bluebonnet, you're entitled to your beliefs, but this statement does not support any of your stances. Such a comment is beneath you. Perhaps you just want to discredit Mathman as a critic, but everyone here has a right to state an opinion, as you do.

And since you know nothing about Mathman, you can't be sure what he has or has not done in his life to put himself in danger in the service of social justice.

I'm sorry if I offended you or Math or anyone for this. I certainly appall those horrible things. I was trying to say that attempting laws of other countries is useless and should not do no matter how you feel about them.