I don't think it affects the laws of other countries for us to speak of them, Bluebonnet. We have no power, especially not in Russia. Sometimes, the disapproval of the world might even make a difference. This is what happened with apartheid in South Africa. But either way, those of us in other locations have no obligation to keep quiet about the political situation in a particular country. We may speak with greater or lesser degrees of understanding, but we do have a right to discuss the situation, just as the Russians on this board have a right to criticize Western permissiveness.
Mr. Sulu wants to move Sochi Olympics to Vancouver
- Thread starter Ladskater
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Back in the day, Olympia, back in the day. Ah, the 1960s! We thought we could change the world. And you know what? We did! (Sort of, in our wee little way.)
Now I am changing the world -- for the better I hope -- by teaching calculus to a bunch of knucklehead college students. Strike a match. Light a candle. Maybe someone will catch fire. :yes:
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Apartheid was actually going to be the example I would use... particularly since they actually boycotted South Africa from being in the Olympics for years because of it.
The disapproval of the world, particularly in light of an event that Russia wants to make a good impression on the world, can indeed make a difference. There was widespread protest about these laws and LGBT rights in Russia long before the Olympics became collateral. Instead of boycotting the Olympics though, people - namely those who believe in equality and LGBT rights - need to boycott the country itself. Countries like Russia will not listen to diplomacy or equal-rights advocates... they'll only listen to their bottom line and economy being compromised. This is why people are suggesting boycotts of the Olympics and not feeding money to a country that treats LGBT people as second-class citizens. "Respecting culture and laws" only works if said laws aren't hurting people. If Qatar said "respect our abuse of women" or Uganda said "respect our laws that kill gays" or Russia says "respect our law banning gays from holding hands in public", the rest of the world would (and should) not turn a blind eye if they disagree with that.
Ah, the 1960s! We thought we could change the world. And you know what? We did! (Sort of, in our wee little way.)
Now I am changing the world -- for the better I hope -- by teaching calculus to a bunch of knucklehead college students. Strike a match. Light a candle. Maybe someone will catch fire. :yes:
Mathman, you know that civil rights activist (your fellow mathman) Robert Moses has written that algebra is the gateway to success, and where he once worked getting voters registered in Mississippi, he is working to teach math to economically deprived kids. This candle is eminently worth lighting. Never let it drop from your hand.
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Please! Don't make it sound like you, a few radical liberal countries, represent the whole world. It shows your arrogance and ignorance on other cultures and regions. It can only make many countries hate you more. How many countries in the world? How many countries in the world have joined you in this protest?
Now that gay rights and gay marriage are almost universally legal in north America and western Europe now all countries must have those laws or they are all about radical hatred and must be boycotted but just 10 years ago these were not legal in north America and western Europe! It's going to far and is getting a little much! There is a solution for Russia being unacceptably 10 years behind the western Europe and north American nations and why don't they just boycott everything and never engage if being where they were 10 years ago or even 5 years ago or just a few months ago now means extreme hatred and Nazi and hitler!
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Please! Don't make it sound like you, a few radical liberal countries, represent the whole world. It shows your arrogance and ignorance on other cultures and regions. It can only make many countries hate you more. How many countries in the world? How many countries in the world have joined you in this protest?
There are plenty of countries that have voiced their concern. Denmark just released a warning (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/15/danish-government-warns-russia-over-anti-gay-law/). Germany - you know, as "radically liberal" as Germany is - did too (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/1...eatment-of-gay-people-in-russia-unacceptable/). Sister cities of Russian cities, such as Milan, Italy (http://rt.com/politics/severs-fraternity-petersburg-rights-890/) and Lansing, Michigan (http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/i...ter_city_ties_over_gay_rights_violations.html) are severing their sister city ties. Obama has certainly voiced his disapproval as well. I'm not going to research and list off every single one, but those are already several examples in just a minute of Google searching. And you can bet there will be more.
If a country chooses to denounce LGBT people, women, people of colour, etc., it's not arrogance or ignorance to question them on this instead of simply accepting discrimination as their way of life.
Here's a question: how many countries in the world have expressed support for Russia's anti-LGBT laws (compared to the number of countries who have expressed their disapproval)?
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I don't follow the politics of the Olympics often, but was there this much outrage over China being the host in 2008?
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Can't find many countries so use cities instead?
Unlike you who claimed "the disapproval of the world", I have never claimed any approval of any nation. Why should they draw attention from Russia to themselves? It's all politics. They use each other. That doesn't mean that they agree with US, UK, and a few those countries.
I don't think so. There were certainly outcries in media. But not this intense.
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majority do not care or an indifferent
only the northern Hemisphere and parts of Europe ( which does not even make 1/16 of the total World Nations ) are obsessed with LGBT in Russia
here is for you: The World Map - :thumbsup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CIA_WorldFactBook-Political_world.pdf
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There's a particular intensity as these laws also affect the people coming to the Olympics, and call to question the safety of the athletes/spectators/etc. Primarily because these laws don't just affect Russians, but also foreigners.
Unfortunately for Putin, this is a time that people globally are actually more supportive of LGBT rights than ever, and more inclined to actually say something about it. If he really wanted to suppress pro-gay opinions, he probably shouldn't have implemented anti-gay laws months before the world's largest and most prolific sporting event. How do you say "oops" in Russian?
Unfortunately for Putin, this is a time that people globally are actually more supportive of LGBT rights than ever, and more inclined to actually say something about it. If he really wanted to suppress pro-gay opinions, he probably shouldn't have implemented anti-gay laws months before the world's largest and most prolific sporting event.
How do you say "oops" in Russian?
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There's a particular intensity as these laws also affect the people coming to the Olympics, and call to question the safety of the athletes/spectators/etc. Primarily because these laws don't just affect Russians, but also foreigners.
Unfortunately for Putin, this is a time that people globally are actually more supportive of LGBT rights than ever, and more inclined to actually say something about it. If he really wanted to suppress pro-gay opinions, he probably shouldn't have implemented anti-gay laws months before the world's largest and most prolific sporting event.
World Map for you :yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CIA_WorldFactBook-Political_world.pdf
World is not equals Europe and North America
Toni, I can't recall offhand, but there's always a protest against China's Tibet policies.
I don't actually think there's a lot of outrage now, either. U.S. and British leaders seem to be against the idea of a boycott. (And remember, the U.S. coincidentally has two reasons, the law and Snowden's asylum--and we're still kind of lukewarm about a boycott.) Some celebrities such as Johnny Weir and George Takei who have spoken publicly as individuals, but I'm sure if you asked the typical person in the street over here, there wouldn't be much knowledge of the Putin law, the threat of protesting at the Olympics, or maybe even the fact that the Olympics are being held in Russia. In here on GS there's a lot of activity, but face it, we're specialists. A good many of us are impassioned for one reason or another.
Here in GS-Land, it should be a hot issue right now. For one thing, this forum is one of those rare places where ordinary Americans, Canadians, and other Westerners can actually talk to ordinary Russians. For another, there seems to be a significantly higher proportion of gay athletes in skating than in other sports, so most people here have probably admired one or more gay skaters, whether they were openly so or not. There are other reasons too, including people's individual stance on the subject, perhaps in support of gay friends or family members.
Remember, though people here are characterizing Americans and Canadians as being pro-gay, in truth a lot of folks over here never pay the subject much attention. They might be tolerant if asked, but they're not impassioned by any means. Many others are very conservative socially and, though they might not support such a law, they wouldn't feel the same degree of outrage over it. And there are people over here who agree with the apparent majority of Russians. So those of us who are speaking in opposition to the law are not necessarily representative of North American opinions as a whole. But we do feel we must speak up, given this unique opportunity.
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4 out of the 8 superpowers (Canada, USA, Germany, Great Britain) have expressed disapproval of these laws (and one would imagine France would too having legalized same-sex marriage). And it doesn't matter how many nations express disapproval if it's inherently. If all the nations don't express disapproval of women being shot for trying to get an education in the Middle East does that mean the world is okay with that? If all the nations don't make a statement up about infringed human rights in North Korea or China does that mean they condone it?
It seems the overwhelming attitude is that the rest of the world should mind their own business and Russia should be allowed to discriminate against LGBT people whether the rest of the world likes it or not. :disapp:
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4 out of the 8 superpowers (Canada, USA, Germany, Great Britain) have expressed disapproval of these laws (and one would imagine France would too having legalized same-sex marriage). And it doesn't matter how many nations express disapproval if it's inherently. If all the nations don't express disapproval of women being shot for trying to get an education in the Middle East does that mean the world is okay with that? If all the nations don't make a statement up about infringed human rights in North Korea or China does that mean they condone it?
It seems the overwhelming attitude is that the rest of the world should mind their own business and Russia should be allowed to discriminate against LGBT people whether the rest of the world likes it or not.
wow, thanks clearly cant argue with a cultural supermacist
travel the world, and i mean not just Europe
because that should be it, clean yo won dirty laundry first and mind your won business, change should come from the people within
before you meddle in other countries affairs, we had that enough with Iraq, Libya, Vietnam didnt we ?
oops forgot that wasn't deemed human rights catastrophe enough
and now Egypt is in a very sad state of internal Revolution within a Revolution
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They are against a boycott, but there is acknowledgement that these laws are discriminatory and abusive.
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How is not wanting people to be discriminated or persecuted "cultural supremacy"?
How dare I try to enforce my Western ideals of equality and human decency! You are being dismissive about the international pressure being placed on Russia by a few Western supremacist powers, but if they are so trivial, then how come Russia is continuing to change their statements, making revisions how athletes/spectators will be treated, and having to defend themselves instead of simply brushing these sentiments aside? Why are Russian sports ministers asking people to calm down, if they actually didn't feel threatened by people speaking up?
Face it, Russia... It's not even 3 months before the Olympics and this is just continuing to grow each day. If anything, we should be thanking Putin for instituting these laws before the Olympics because now Russian officials are behind the 8-ball. Russia might not change their laws, but they will certainly not be able to suppress this issue throughout the Olympics - and this will be a hot topic during the Games whether they like it or not. There will be demonstrations, there will be discussions, there will be acts of defiance. Russia is unbelievably naive to think it can stifle the world's media, and the rest of the world itself. What will Russia do if everybody shows up waving a rainbow flag at the opening ceremony? Arrest everyone?
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How is not wanting people to be discriminated or persecuted "cultural supremacy"?
This is only the start. It's not even 3 months before the Olympics and this is just continuing to grow each day. If anything, we should be thanking Putin for instituting these laws before the Olympics because now Russian officials are facing growing international pressure and this is going to be huge. They might not change their laws, but they will certainly not be able to suppress this issue throughout the Olympics. With a waning nation like Russia depending on these Olympics for economic support, you would think they'd be inclusive, instead of discriminating. There will be demonstrations, there will be discussions, there will be acts of defiance. Russia is unbelievably naive to think it can stifle the world's media and those coming to Russia.
the word democracy is interpreted differently in other countries, seriously travel the world, you are one of the ignorant person I have ever encountered
when one imposes its own views on another country then happens is confusion and cultural clash
didnt you leran anything imposing your western democracy in Afghanistan and look at the middle east now :disapp:
your words are actually very typical russophobe who dont know anything about Russia
there will be demonstrations, they already has been but what is unacceptable is how you amke it sound like
the LGBT in Russia have had it the worst "Russia is unbelievably naive to think it can stifle the world's media and those coming to Russia"
the only media that is attacking is the western press which has stemmed form centuries already, lol
huge what ? then you wont learn Russia never gives in to outside pressure, threats will only harden it
of course not all countries can be dropped by drones and bombs when they dont confrom to western democarcy
how dare you not propagate the LGBT which has the Nazi like conditions in Russia
trafficking, hunger cannot be brought up to this Worlds most appalling and Worst country with the Worst Human Righst record for LGBT
Ban all games and athletes from Russia util they give in to our demands and give lessons to all their children, march to the communities to change their backward tradtions
those bigot cossacks wait until Gay Marriage and Gay Games will be mandatory in Russia.
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