Nathan Chen

[1111bm]

I’m concerned about the injury Raf mentioned, although I don’t take Raf’s word as gospel, and wondering what Nathan plans to do next in terms of skating. But those don’t feel like appropriate topics for this thread.

Why not? These kind of topics are being discussed here all the time.
(for instance, when that "infamous" interview with Raf was published, it provoked quite some discussion on here)

 

[sheetz]

Like I said, it’s my opinion and for various reasons, this thread makes me uncomfortable, to the point where it doesn’t even seem like the right place to discuss Nathan Chen. It’s more of a cult of worship than a discussion of his skills, and from a distance, the tone is... markedly different from other threads, even unsettling. But I’ve said my piece and I’m not a mod. Ultimately, though, I’d ask you this: do you think this is what Nathan wants? And if the situation were reversed, is this what you would want?

I really don't understand the problem you have with this thread. You seem to be overly sensitive. This is hardly a "cult" thread ( I would hate something like that and would be gone in an instant). I would have no problems with Nathan or his family reading anything in this thread.

 

[hhh]

I personally have not seen anything discussed here that I would consider crossing a line. IMO, every point about Nathan's ability to speak in Chinese has been about improving his ability to communicate with fans and not about micromanaging his life. And to be honest there's been a lot less talk about Nathan's attractiveness here than what might be expected. He's really become a teen hearthrob and has made several "best looking Olympian" lists, including this one from the Japanese magazine, Spur.

Oh yah some really hot guys, I follow Gus and Sven too, good job Spur!

 

[chopinskate]

Yes, I think the "cult" aspect sometimes is more pronounced in Nathan's thread than in other GS fan threads. Just my opinion.

Nah I agree.

I would have no problems with Nathan or his family reading anything in this thread.

I wouldn't hold that opinion. It won't take a long trek up this thread to make a case to not show it to them.

 

[1111bm]

I want to ask your opinion about the whole Nathan/Rafael situation instead...am I the only one who found the interview a bit OTT on Rafael's part? This is not the first time I see Rafael having issues with him and running to give an interview to the same Russian journalist (it happened with the whole Zoueva case last season, too) and I don't know how having their problems discussed in the media instead than closed door can be helpful in the long run. I sincerely don't know why Rafael run to the press like that instead of discussing the whole issue with Nathan, his team and his family (also, mentioning the injury and the flu was unnecessary and I hope he had permission to do this). I know that many appreciate Rafael for his "candor" but if I were a student of him, especially one as private as Nathan seems to be, I would find it uncomfortable. Also the interview made Nathan appear not in the best light (unwilling to listen to the coach, with a rather involved family...I'm not saying that he is like that, I'm just saying that Rafael didn't sell his student in the best possible way) and these are things that could damage Nathan's reputation whether he would want to change coach.

I agree, and honestly, I got a strong feeling that Raf was hurt in his pride...? He seems to really believe that he's not accountable for what happened in Nathan's SP, and he wants it to be known to the outside world, and that's why he felt the need to speak up? That's my impression anyway...
But still, whatever the reason, pretty insensitive towards his student indeed.

Also, on a positive note we could give suggestion for future programs, in case Nathan pops on this fan fest...at least it would be useful and funny!

First, let's focus on his current programs (for Worlds): I think we need a petition to have him put back that beautiful jump in his FS choreo sequence, for crying out loud! I can't believe he omitted it twice now in competition!

 

[SkatingMusic]

Thanks for sharing the context. If this board is meant to be a place for more serious and informative discussion, are there other places for fans to express their admiration etc.?

 

[sheetz]

Thanks for sharing the context. If this board is meant to be a place for more serious and informative discussion, are there other places for fans to express their admiration etc.?

This place is for that, too. From the Fan Fest Rules:

Fan Fest posters should be able to "gush," but NOT at the expense of another skater or of another skater's fans. That's just rude and and not very constructive.

Nor should folks who do not like a skater go to that skater's Fan Fest to troll or to "police" the fans there.

 

[SkatingMusic]

Ok thanks for sharing the rules.

 

[lappo]

I agree, and honestly, I got a strong feeling that Raf was hurt in his pride...? He seems to really believe that he's not accountable for what happened in Nathan's SP, and he wants it to be known to the outside world, and that's why he felt the need to speak up? That's my impression anyway...
But still, whatever the reason, pretty insensitive towards his student indeed.



First, let's focus on his current programs (for Worlds): I think we need a petition to have him put back that beautiful jump in his FS choreo sequence, for crying out loud! I can't believe he omitted it twice now in competition!

This is not the first time Rafael does an interview like that; just compare it to other interviews where he raves about Nathan's ability to switch layout on the moment when this leads to a successful outcome. I admit I don't like him very much even though I recognize all what he has done so far for Nathan...I just cannot warm to Raf (nor to his other students) but as far as he does his job fine it's not a problem. I just think spilling the beans to the press everytime you have problems with your students is not a constructive way to handle your relationship with said student...

 

[lurkz2]

I hope everyone will continue to feel comfortable in this thread. I know I really appreciated it during the dark days of Nathan’s Oly short programs.

I also hope there will be no need for admin or mods to police the thread, and everyone will police themselves bearing in mind that this is a figure skating forum and not a fan blog. While I appreciate all the articles and links, no matter how frivolous, I do feel uncomfortable about the numerous posts about fans wanting to be his girlfriend etc.

 

[shine]

I think where we differ is whether the standard should be “expected” or “appropriate.” GS isn’t exactly a conventional fan site. If it were, I wouldn’t bother visiting fan fest threads to discuss the merits of various dance techniques and compare modern practitioners as examples of what a given skater might benefit from emulating. There’s also the fact that the internet isn’t a “secret” to celebrities or their agents any longer — the possibility of someone near Nathan seeing this thread is quite high, as GS is reputable and not a fan site.

The Internet is forever, and while Nathan himself isn’t reading this, the odds that someone in his camp might skim it someday isn’t exactly low. Regardless, I’ve always tried ... not to leave behind posts I’ll regret or to speak in anger. It just doesn’t end well.

Like I said, it’s my opinion and for various reasons, this thread makes me uncomfortable, to the point where it doesn’t even seem like the right place to discuss Nathan Chen. It’s more of a cult of worship than a discussion of his skills, and from a distance, the tone is... markedly different from other threads, even unsettling. But I’ve said my piece and I’m not a mod. Ultimately, though, I’d ask you this: do you think this is what Nathan wants? And if the situation were reversed, is this what you would want?

While the appropriateness of some of the things being said in this thread may be in the eye of the beholder, you shouldn’t feel uncomfortable discussing skating related topics. If you have read the thread for long enough you would know they happen quite often. There’s a wide range of things being discussed, including some very in depth and serious analysis of his skating, coaching, programs, areas for improvement, gushing about why we love his skating as well as a lot of constructive criticism.

 

[1111bm]

While I appreciate all the articles and links, no matter how frivolous, I do feel uncomfortable about the numerous posts about fans wanting to be his girlfriends etc.

What, in this thread?? Did I miss something...? Honest, I only see that type of post in the comment sections on twitter or instagram...

This is not the first time Rafael does an interview like that; just compare it to other interviews where he raves about Nathan's ability to switch layout on the moment when this leads to a successful outcome.

Yep... this is exactly why I'm hugely bothered by Raf's statements in this recent interview, where he puts all the blame for the short-term layout change on Nathan, as if he himself wasn't the one who taught Nathan to be this kind of competitor.

I'm also not buying that poor Raf was oh-so-powerless and that there was no point in trying to change Nathan's mind... (it sure sounds like he didn't even try, the way he describes it, or maybe that's just how it's transcribed...).

I'm sure that layout change was a result of possibly pressure/ambition/nerves/pride/insecurity...? and not necessarily his family interfering (or at least not alone). And I sure expect a coach at that level of competition to be able to calm his student down and make him trust in his abilities, thereby preventing such a panicked rash action, or to be able to at least talk him out of it.

I've also noticed, on these boards alone, judging by several posts, that many people have quickly formed a negative opinion of Nathan just based on that one interview, badmouthing his (supposed) attitude and/or demonizing his family/mother... so Raf's definitely damaged his reputation. And that makes me sad for Nathan.

 

[chopinskate]

I've also noticed, on these boards alone, judging by several posts, that many people have quickly formed a negative opinion of Nathan just based on that one interview, badmouthing his (supposed) attitude and/or demonizing his family/mother... so Raf's definitely damaged his reputation. And that makes me sad for Nathan.

I wouldn't worry about this. Stuff like this happens, and it blows over. Yuna had a fallout with BOrser, but it didn't affect her reputation.

 

[yyyskate]

Give me a break.
Speaking of "cult", "obsessive" fandom in figure skating, I sure know a thing or two about that. Yet Nathan's fan thread here is anything but that!!!
If certain people felt uncomfortable, you are more than welcome to spend your time in your comfortable places to discuss your real interests, perhaps you will encounter some real "cult" or "obsessive" fandom there.
Remember, this is Nathan's fan thread.

Let us all ignore and move on from this nonsense, and discuss something interesting and valuable instead.

 

[shine]

I wouldn't worry about this. Stuff like this happens, and it blows over. Yuna had a fallout with BOrser, but it didn't affect her reputation.

What about the reputation of his family, in particular, his mom? I don't think one can argue she has pretty much been demonized as yet another stereotypical crazy Asian tiger mom who would even unreasonably force his son into attempting a layout that aggravates his foot injury, and that rep is going to stick. All because of one vague interview given in foreign media which she may not even be aware of.

 

[yyyskate]

What about the reputation of his family, in particular, his mom? I don't think one can argue she has pretty much been demonized as yet another stereotypical crazy Asian tiger mom who would even unreasonably force his son into attempting a layout that aggravates his foot injury, and that rep is going to stick. All because of one interview given in foreign media which she may not even be aware of.

exactly, as for Yuna's fallout, she and her mom is still blamed for the cause of this fallout until this day, yet nobody really knows or certain what actually happened, at least Yuna's side never give any official explanation....

BTW, Nathan's thread welcome Nathan's true fans and anyone who truly cares about Nathan.

 

[chopinskate]

What about the reputation of his family, in particular, his mom? I don't think one can argue she has pretty much been demonized as yet another stereotypical crazy Asian tiger mom who would even unreasonably force his son into attempting a layout that aggravates his foot injury, and that rep is going to stick. All because of one interview given in foreign media which she may not even be aware of.

That's why I brought up Yuna, actually. I think it was for the same reason they had their fallout. Ultimately, it blew over, and I doubt anyone believes any bad thing about Yuna's mother, who is widely known to have sacrificed a lot for her.

There will always be certain people who say certain things, but they would have been there no matter what. TSL was already discussing Nathan's mother's involvement before Raf gave the interview, so you can't really help gossip-mongers.

What, in this thread?? Did I miss something...? Honest, I only see that type of post in the comment sections on twitter or instagram...

There were... I'm not going to quote specific posts, but they are there for everyone to see. Maybe you didn't participate in them, then good on you.

Give me a break.
Speaking of "cult", "obsessive" fandom in figure skating, I sure know a thing or two about that. Yet Nathan's fan thread here is anything but that!!!
If certain people felt uncomfortable, you are more than welcome to spend your time in your comfortable places to discuss your real interests, perhaps you will encounter some real "cult" or "obsessive" fandom there.
Remember, this is Nathan's fan thread.

Let us all ignore and move on from this nonsense, and discuss something interesting and valuable instead.

We are aware of whose fan thread this is, and therefore we are voicing our opinions. Maybe instead of being defensive, you could think about whether or not we have a point, look through the thread, and try to understand why we are saying it instead of calling it "nonsense"?

 

[shine]

That's why I brought up Yuna, actually. I think it was for the same reason they had their fallout. Ultimately, it blew over, and I doubt anyone believes any bad thing about Yuna's mother, who is widely known to have sacrificed a lot for her.

There will always be certain people who say certain things, but they would have been there no matter what. TSL was already discussing Nathan's mother's involvement before Raf gave the interview, so you can't really help gossip-mongers.



There were... I'm not going to quote specific posts, but there are there for everyone to see. Maybe you didn't participate in them, then good on you.



We are aware of whose fan thread this is, and therefore we are voicing our opinions. Maybe instead of being defensive, you could think about whether or not we have a point, look through the thread, and try to understand why we are saying it instead of calling it "nonsense"?

But it's not just TSL. There's a long thread on FSU, for example, where the translated interview is posted. Regular posters on the forum who I normally consider reasonable are all seemingly buying into the narrative Raf gave/implied, even if the specifics of the family/mother involvement was never even actually discussed in the interview. I feel it's also particularly easy for people to assume so because of the stereotypes. It might very well be true and they could all be right, but I don't think is fair to Nathan's mom who doesn't have a voice in this and when we don't really know the exact story.

 

[yyyskate]

also, I wanna say, there are girls/young lady fans read and post in this fan thread too.it is perfect okay to post and express their crush on Nathan.
Nathan is absolutely mature enough to handle all these. Fans have asked straightly in his face questions like before and he handled it with a charming laughter and everyone is happy.
Come on, it is 2018 already
Also as I reported before, figure skating fandom in China is relatively young, that is indeed the market, and that is also valuable information input for this fan thread.

 

[chopinskate]

But it's not just TSL. There's a long thread on FSU, for example, where the translated interview is posted. Regular posters on the forum who I normally consider reasonable are all seemingly buying into the narrative Raf gave/implied, even if the specifics of the family/mother involvement was never actually discussed. I don't think this is fair to Nathan's mom who doesn't have a voice in this.

I must emphasise the part time plays here. It won't be immediate... And if I remember, Yuna came to her mom's defence (in her usual mature, stoic way). I don't know if Nathan's personality would allow him to do that -- I don't know if he knows about it, but something tells me he won't speak out if he did. But I sure hope he speaks about it to Raf himself, and then have a press conference that they sorted it out.

Right now, yes, it's in human nature to blame people, and it is unfair given that they are doing so with only one side of the story... I haven't been, I like keeping away from this and enjoying skaters I like for what they do. But you can for sure hope that, with time, it will go away. Not saying there won't be unfortunate ugliness, but you can definitely contain it to one side -- let them blame Nathan and Nathan's mom and look like fools later, while you can keep enjoying his skating and not blame Raf before you have both sides.