Nobu pulls out of Japanese Nationals, so no Worlds too

[Mafke]

I think that the reason why this comment needed to be anonymous was just because such a comment is socially inappropriate and against the norms and moral standard held in the society.

Could it maybe have been on purpose to make the public more sympathetic to Oda? That is, a kind of reverse psychology where a tough, inhuman stance by the JSF will make people think they're treating him unfairly?

Also, am I right in thinking that maybe the big issue is that he needs to skate outside of Japan before he can skate inside? Would a very warm reception at next year's Skate America affect attitudes in Japan?

 

[Mathman]

The part that I am most concerned about is this: Mr.Oda seems to feel that he is so wicked and worthless that he needs to punish himself beyond the penalties set by the legal system and the skating federation. This is not good.

It would be so cool if he did do Skate America next year. (It would be up to USFS to invite him, right?) I will be standing outside the arena giving out little Japanese flags for everyone to wave for him!

 

[Bennett]

The part that I am most concerned about is this: Mr.Oda seems to feel that he is so wicked and worthless that he needs to punish himself beyond the penalties set by the legal system and the skating federation. This is not good.

I do not know if he believes that he is wicked and worthless needing to punish himself. There is no telling what made Nobu to make that decision. But I trust that Nobu weighed all the pros and cons and reached this difficult decision. I would like to wait for him to feel like performing for himself and for his fans

ETA. Nationals and Worlds are both really big events that would take really a lot of preparation, both mentally and physically, and all the circumstances including his surroundings need to be ready for public attention and aiming for good results. If Nobu thinks it too early for him to compete, it would be the best decision for him.

It would be so cool if he did do Skate America next year. (It would be up to USFS to invite him, right?) I will be standing outside the arena giving out little Japanese flags for everyone to wave for him!

That's cute! I heard that Stephane's cheer leaders did the same thing at GPF, i.e., distributing little flags around their neighbors.

 

[Dodhiyel]

I think Oda's whole career might b in jeopardy. He just seems crushed by this incident.

The Japanese Skating Federation should be thinking about how they can support and nuture him in his state of despondancy, rather than be angry that they might not get three places at next years worlds.

Thank you for saying that, Mathman. I stopped reading the thread a little way into it, because it was upsetting me too much. I'll read it later on, when I can stomach people knocking him. He has been through enough.

 

[sorcerer]

Mathman is right in writing that it was Nobu himself who felt the need to punish himself into not skating in the Nats, it is even officailly announced so; but I believe it was not totally because he felt himself wicked/worthless.

After watching the Mens' SP (Japanese Nats) last night, I made reflections in my bed, putting myself in Nobu's place, and somewhat felt the way how Nobu came to his conclusion.

Kozuka, Nakaniwa, Nanri, they all said in interviews, in that broadcast, that they want SO much to go to Worlds. Especailly Nakaniwa, for how many years he's been longing to reach that goal, everyone knows. (whether he's good enough is another independent question.)
I think Nobu might have felt that it would be insultive to these diligent compatriots to think he is the only one who'd get, with Daisuke, the 3 entries for the Worlds'09.
It can be that Nobu didn't want to look impudent by making his come back in front of these guys not even well prepared his programs.

But I don't know if this imagination is true. If true, it's a modesty he should get rid of.

BTW

...the original comment cited by sorcerer at his/her post #1

Hint: I'm sorcerer not sorceress.

 

[demarinis5]

Anyone following Japanese Nationals?

 

[ks777]

Yep, I been following it!

 

[demarinis5]

Is there a separate thread in Spoilers?

 

[Mathman]

Look under National Events -> Japanese nationals.

http://goldenskate.hdlproducts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555

 

[demarinis5]

Look under National Events -> Japanese nationals.

http://goldenskate.hdlproducts.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555

Thanks for editing. Sorry I put spoiler info in this thread I was not thinking.

 

[Winnipeg]

I wish we could do something about it.

Sounds like he needs to talk to someone - counselling?

 

[Hsuhs]

Sounds like he needs to talk to someone - counselling?

Could work. But only if he feels like having one. Counselling has to be self initiated.

 

[Bennett]

Mathman is right in writing that it was Nobu himself who felt the need to punish himself into not skating in the Nats, it is even officailly announced so; but I believe it was not totally because he felt himself wicked/worthless.

In what way did they officially announce that he decided that he needed to punish himself? The HP of JSF just says that Nobu himself decided to have voluntary restraint from participating competitions during this year (which ends in a week by the way). Are you referring to this annoucement? But voluntary restraint is not exactly equal to self-punishment. People decide to have voluntary restraint for a lot of reasons. You may, for example, refrain from having parties after someone died, which is not really punishment. Besides, nobody has really known that Nobu thinks himself wicked/worthless. Nobu hasn't talked about his feelings yet. What we only know is that Nobu decided to withdraw and that the news report that he seems to have psychological pressures.

 

[Bennett]

BTW

Hint: I'm sorcerer not sorceress.

??? Sorry I don't get it.

 

[sorcerer]

...Are you referring to this annoucement? But voluntary restraint is not exactly equal to self-punishment.

Yes. You are precise. As for "reason(s)", from there all we can do is guess.
One thing for sure is we don't know enough reason(s).
"Culture" is not enough, a Japanese here woud say...

BTW the hint was for he/she.

 

[Oscilla]

I was so depressed for 3 days that I had to stop myself from responding, or else it would be suicidal jibberish. What a way to spend the Christmas...

That sounds exaggerated. I don't think anyone, including Oda, believes that his whole life is ruined. A lot of things happen in life. Most people would have gone through some events at some points in life that they would never have wished to have.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet my kindneys that he thinks his life is ruined. All things he took the most pride and joy in are now gone for him forever. Since he had no faith in himself as a skater, he at least tried to be a perfect son, to be liked and appreciated for his good will, responsibility and hard work. He very often appeared in TV or newspapers with his mother as a "hard work can bring success" icon, as a model of good son, or just as a living history (talking abiut his ancestor Nobunaga) or a brilliant comedian (I loved when some pro comedians tried to make him a target of a joke and he made them a butt of the joke instead).
Now all this is gone... It is doubtful he will ever be invited to shows again. Years of hard work, sweat and tears have been reduced to "he does not know the word responsibility" (by Mr.Ito), and the (gutter) press changed their stance from "no talent boy, but a genius of hard work" to "a genius who wasted his talent because of how irresponsible he is".

Besides, he can use the time to do things that he could not have done if he attended the competitions, such as going to school, preparing for future career as a high school teacher (sure he will a good one), and practicing quads if he wishes.

I doubt he is still thinking about the teacher career now. The Kansai Uni was VERY harsh to him, and for a month there was a risk that he will be thrown out of the University altogether (losing 3 years of education and a rink to train at). Eventually the officials announced that the JSF punishment was strict enough, so Nobu had "just" his provileges cut off and was "kindly" asked not to train in public hours in order not to bring any negative attention to KanDai (so he was forced to train at very early hours or at night, and the rink is more than one hour away from his home... I don't know when he sleeps at all). Plus there is a worry that no school would want to accept a teacher with a criminal record.
I doubt he is enjoying the school much, either - I remember that 2 months or so ago a Kansai student has posted on BBS board that she spotted Nobu in sunglasses and a cap pulled nearly over his eyes. She said that he was usually very easy to spot before and eager to socialize, but after the fact she could not notice him at all, and when she finally did, he was in that "protective gear" and walking away quickly, trying to remain unnoticed.

The person was stupidly feeding the troll that the sport news paper wanted to sell. (...) I trust that JSF as a whole body has not gone that far.

I think it was Mr.Ito who said that. He was the one who said that Nobu "did not know the word "responsibility" and seemed very angry every time he appeared on TV. Ms Hiramatsu, OTOH, seemed very sad and I thought she was on the verge of tears when she announced the "punishment". I think she might be the one who said about "unnecessary bashing".

Also, am I right in thinking that maybe the big issue is that he needs to skate outside of Japan before he can skate inside? Would a very warm reception at next year's Skate America affect attitudes in Japan?

I hope so. One of the main worries mentioned in one article was "how will the World react to this news?" As if they expected a bomb to be dropped on JSF building, or something.
Plus, Yagudin seems to be absolutely loved in Japan (at Japan Open he had more banners than all the others skaters combined ). Not only he was arrested because of DUI, but also thrown off COI because of alcohol abuse and bad behavior, and yet he is still a well respected superstar, one of the most often invited to shows in Japan.

After watching the Mens' SP (Japanese Nats) last night, I made reflections in my bed, putting myself in Nobu's place, and somewhat felt the way how Nobu came to his conclusion. (...)

I think your post makes a lot of sense, but aside from the fact that it would be indeed a modesty that he should het rid off, this stance could really backfire. Yes, this year two guys will be able to go with Dai-chan, but it puts a very heavy pressure for them to place top 10, or for Dai-chan to get gold. Otherwise they are down to two spots, and next year, if Nobu would be able to make a comeback, no one else would be able to go.
I just hope JSF will not try to pressure Dai-chan into getting a gold medal... He is certainly able to get one, but I want him to skate for himself, and not under pressure because his federation wants him to.

Besides, nobody has really known that Nobu thinks himself wicked/worthless. Nobu hasn't talked about his feelings yet.

"Why did I do it? Because I'm worthless trash".
Besides, I think sometimes actions and body language speak louder than words. And just looking at him in those news flashes...

BTW, I am kind of surprised that some of his fans had actually speculated that this might happen. I had just thought that he would have wanted to compete after getting a management contract and preparing new SP.

I think that two oposite states of minds are in battle here.
The first: wanting to redeem his family name through skating well; wanting not to waste resources invested so far in his skating; not wanting to let his coaches/choreographers/etc. down.
The second: panical fear of skating in front of the crowd that might turn hostile; of falling apart and letting everyone down; of having his photo placed in the newspapers with the subtitle "Apparently Oda indulged again today, his sense of balance was a bit off."
And all that spiced with the knowledge that whatever he say or does might be interpreted in a negative way by the press and his superiors; as the "anonymous" comment by JFS member has just proved.

 

[Oscilla]

Amidst all of that, I can't help but wonder about the music choice for Nobu's SP. It's been announced as "Un Ballo in Maschera" ("A Masked Ball") by Verdi. Here is a beautiful description of it:

http://www.sfopera.com/opera.asp?o=239&i=85

In a nutshell, it is a story based on a real story of king Gustavus II (although Verdi had to change names and location because of the censorship). It is on opera full of funny and ironic moments, and yet it has a tragic, not a comic ending. It tells a story of a king, who falls in love in a woman who is his friend's wife Amelia. Anckarström, Amelia's husands, discovers that they met during the night and immediately flares with anger, sure that his wife betrayed him. He dedices to join the conspiracy against the king and kill him, not knowing that his suspections are unfounded and in fact the king plans to send him and Amelia away in order to not be subjected to temptation. He stabs the king during the masked ball. Gustavus is mortally wounded, but before he dies he pleads Amelia's innocence and offers forgiveness to his murderer. "As Gustavus lies dying, Verdi accords him the musical rhetoric of redemption, complete with harp and hymning chorus (...)."


I can't help but wonder who chose this music. Was it Lori Nichol, indirectly comparing the whole overblown affair to Anckarström mindless and unfounded fury? Did Nobu like the opera, because like his life it was "a constant exchange between mirthful and grim elements"? Was it a resigned observation that the redemption can come only by death? Was it just a mere accident, was the music picked just because it was beautiful and made for skating, and the storyline just happened to fit so well?

 

[Bennett]

Actually, I'd be willing to bet my kindneys that he thinks his life is ruined. All things he took the most pride and joy in are now gone for him forever. .....Now all this is gone... It is doubtful he will ever be invited to shows again.

I don't think that his life is ruined at all. His skating career has never been over at all. He was officially given the opportunity to skate at the West Japan Regional, Nationals, and Worlds. He is still officially given a newer opportunity to talk with JSF about his plans for the 2008-9 season. I understand that you cannot help thinking negatively, speculating that he may think that his life is over and that his skating career is over. But how do you really know what he is thinking?

I doubt he is still thinking about the teacher career now. Plus there is a worry that no school would want to accept a teacher with a criminal record.

He does not have a criminal record. He has a traffic offense record. Since he has already paid the fine, received social sanction more than enough, and done community services---which is really nice I am sure that people enjoyed working with him---it would be completely fine for him to work as a school teacher. It is actually lucky that he was not working as a teacher yet when he did DUI. Making this mistake as a 20-year-old student and having the experience to compensate for it will certainly help him become a better teacher.

You seem to believe that everyone believes Nobu as "worthless." But it's not that simple. Oda is such a likable person and especially older people have loved him a lot because it is quite apparent how good-natured he is. Don't let you down so much by the tiny number of ill-spirited people who may bash him. There are always bashers who envy famous people whatever they do.

The Kansai Uni was VERY harsh to him, and for a month there was a risk that he will be thrown out of the University altogether (losing 3 years of education and a rink to train at). Eventually the officials announced that the JSF punishment was strict enough, so Nobu had "just" his provileges cut off and was "kindly" asked not to train in public hours in order not to bring any negative attention to KanDai (so he was forced to train at very early hours or at night, and the rink is more than one hour away from his home... I don't know when he sleeps at all).

How do you know that Kansai University was thinking of throwing him away? What is the source of this information? Isn’t it confidential information that only professors who attended the meeting would know what they discussed about his punishment? In any case, I am afraid that it sounds very unlikely that they considered throwing him away. A university has a range of measures to punish a student. Expelling him/her is the very last resort for a university to take. Even if Oda were just an ordinary student, I do not think that the incident constituted a case serious enough for a university to expel him. It was the-first-time DUI without any harms on others, which resulted in getting the lightest fine of less than $1,000. Besides, he has been a star student for the university who contributed the university by his fame.

What is the source of the information for your saying that he was banned from practicing during public hours at his University rink and forced to skate only late at night and early in the morning? I am afraid I wonder how credible this information can be. Why is it a problem for a university student to skate at his university rink? Was he the only skater who practiced late at night and early in the morning? Wouldn’t it be with other skaters who shared the practice sessions? If his university is so ashamed of him, as you seem to believe, then why do they still keep his official HP that proudly advertises him? Wouldn't it be better for them to take the official HP away than "banning him from practicing at public hours"?

I think it was Mr.Ito who said that. He was the one who said that Nobu "did not know the word "responsibility" and seemed very angry every time he appeared on TV. Ms Hiramatsu, OTOH, seemed very sad and I thought she was on the verge of tears when she announced the "punishment". I think she might be the one who said about "unnecessary bashing".

We don't really know who said that and how credible that information can be. Let's not doubt Mr. Ito unless it's proven to be so.

"Why did I do it? Because I'm worthless trash".
Besides, I think sometimes actions and body language speak louder than words. And just looking at him in those news flashes...

Are you referring to his official press conference in summer right after DUI? But I do not remember Oda saying "worthless trash" at all. Which specific comments are you referring to? Which Japanese word of him are you translating into "worthless trash"?

Besides, it's understandable that Oda felt himself bad right after DUI for doing a stupid thing (whatever adjective he uses to refer to himself). But regretting one's previous acts does not necessarily mean that the person considers oneself as a "worthless trash."

Sorry if I sound harsh. But I just wanted to say: let's not let you down with the negative information that may not even be true.

 

[Bennett]

I think that the reason why this comment needed to be anonymous was just because such a comment is socially inappropriate and against the norms and moral standard held in the society.

Could it maybe have been on purpose to make the public more sympathetic to Oda? That is, a kind of reverse psychology where a tough, inhuman stance by the JSF will make people think they're treating him unfairly?

I do not know if the news paper did so on purpose but I agree that it happens to have such an effect.

Also, am I right in thinking that maybe the big issue is that he needs to skate outside of Japan before he can skate inside? Would a very warm reception at next year's Skate America affect attitudes in Japan?

I wonder if the location is an issue for Oda, JSF, or the media. But I totally agree that a warm welcome whether inside or outside of Japan would certainly help him :agree:

I just wish him the best and send him big smiles and love

 

[Oscilla]

Too much to quote, and I grow more depressed trying to re-read the informatons, so...

The things I wrote are mostly concerns repeated from Nobunari's fans' blogs and blogs in general. Just hearing the news made me shrug - in my country such "offense" would be laughable, as you don't even need a driver's license here to drive a moped; and police has better things to do than guarding fairly empty streets at night.

It's enough to go to FSU and read some posts from the summer to, well, lose the will to live. While there were a lot of supportive posts, there were a lot of bashing, too. Some users claimed that the punishment was perfectly right and even too lenient, that it shoild be treated as "murder attempt", than the only difference between Nobu and Stavinsky was the fact that one was lucky enough to get caught before he killed someone. Trying to point out the "nonsenses" of previous statements could just earn you some more bashing and getting yourself called a "disgusting crime apologist", either in thread or by PM. And its still nothing compared to what went on on public Japanese boards.

The words of the Kansai official, as well as the information about the necessary apology to the chairman (and not being allowed to train for about two weeks anyway) and the punishment from Kansai were released in an official statement somewhere in the first week of October (IIRC). The fact that Nobu was asked to practice in very early/very late hours was also mentioned in a following article, written by a journalist who knew Nobu personally and was devastated by the news. She also mentioned that practicing was very difficult at all, as working as a "volunteer" took also a lot of time (and probably energy, too).
Plus, I don't think Kansai officials have anything to do with Nobu's blog hosted on their site. Such things are usually managed by students. I suppose that after the blogs were created, someone gave the passwords t Nobu and Dai and nobody bothered with them afterwards. The promotional posters at the rink, OTOH, have been taken down.

Being a yumejin in this case is hardly a bonus, as the rules applied to the celebrities are much stricter. I remember a case when a girl was thrown out of the music band because she was caught smoking and having a drink, and therefore tarnished the fans' dream of her being an "innocent girl".

I sadly cannot give the exact source of the quote, as the person who did the translations is recovering from a heart attack and asking for such information right now might be tactless on my part. But usually her information is twice checked before posting and reliable.

I might have sounded negative, but I did not write that post from my own perspective. From the percpective of by-stander I would just love to get my hands on those individuals that, IMHO, have breached the bounds of humanity, and well, most preferably offer them to my beloved ghetto class to give them a crash course in basic compassion. But from the perspective of a person involved, I know I wouldn't be able to cope. And having a lot of support would, ironically, only increase the pressure, because I'd feel even more wicked for failing everybody's expectations.

Not to end on a depressing note this time; I just got a PM with a funny info. Apparently someone sitting behind the judges at Japanese Nationals noticed that one of the judges made a tiny banner out of a paper sheet with "Oda-kun, we are waiting for you" written on it and was waving it around... :thumbsup: