Only one program and one competition day format for FS?

[Anna K.]

No, it's not official; it's just brainstorming. Keep calm

However, the differences between two programs have faded significantly over the years. If this tendency keeps growing, the day will come when somebody will say exactly that: isn't just one program enough to decide the winner? For super-major competitions, like OG, there could still be 2 competition days and either sum of points or points for the best effort would count. For other competitions, it would reduce costs significantly.

So, well... What do you think?

 

[ladyjane]

I still see a lot of differences between the two programmes, if only because of the length of them. So, the Free Skate or Free Dance demands somewhat more stamina than the Short Programme or Rhythm Dance. True, both programmes have required elements but the Free is not called that for nothing. Skaters do have more freedom there. So, besides from not wanting this to happen and turning competitions into cost cutting endeavours (you might as well quit competitions altogether then, or only keep GP's Europeans/4 Continents and Worlds), I would say you also lose a lot of interesting programmes! And, the difference in outcomes can also be quite significant which makes competitions rather exciting.

 

[jenaj]

No, it's not official; it's just brainstorming. Keep calm

However, the differences between two programs have faded significantly over the years. If this tendency keeps growing, the day will come when somebody will say exactly that: isn't just one program enough to decide the winner? For super-major competitions, like OG, there could still be 2 competition days and either sum of points or points for the best effort would count. For other competitions, it would reduce costs significantly.

So, well... What do you think?

This was previously proposed by (I believe) Cinquanta when he was head of the ISU.

 

[Anna K.]

This was previously proposed by (I believe) Cinquanta when he was head of the ISU.

I had a feeling that it was proposed before but I couldn't google anything useful (there is quite a variety of possible keywords so it's complicated).
It would be interesting to know what were pro and con arguments back then. If anyone can dig up the source, I thank you in advance!

I would say you also lose a lot of interesting programmes!

If only those programs were interesting...
Somehow, I'm getting an impression that lots of skaters struggle to produce two new interesting programs per season. Often this is like: one new interesting program and one warhorse or re-used program.
I must admit that having only one program does not guarantee that this program will be interesting though

 

[Dawn825]

More programs=more skating, simple enough for me

 

[noskates]

I don't think they should do away with the short program. I agree with the comment more skating more for me to see.

 

[4everchan]

I would like two days of skating not only because of more skating... but also because of the possibilities of come backs or melt downs after day 1... it's always interesting when there is movement in the rankings.

However, I would definitely change the programs and give them a more defined colour...

Short program would be technical program with more specific requirements as what needs to be performed... For instance a mandatory jump like in juniors but also, I would want to have more emphasis on the actual athletic moves.

Long program would be an artistic program with less jumps than currently (maybe no repetition allowed and/or 5 jumping passes) ... BUT more steps (bring back the second step sequence) and choreo.

Right now, both programs are pretty much the same with the 3 spins and 1 step sequence... though one has more jumping passes...

 

[Anna K.]

I would like two days of skating not only because of more skating... but also because of the possibilities of come backs or melt downs after day 1... it's always interesting when there is movement in the rankings.

Actually, skating one program would have the best advantage exactly in 2 days (or 2 runs) format of competition. Then, only the best effort could count and real comebacks could be possible. In combined points format, we have seen unique comeback skates (Mao Asada, Nathan Chen...) that still didn't bring skaters anywhere near medals. In "best result points only" format, we would get a better chance to get the best from each skaters and get it rewarded. Those who ruined their skate the previous day would still have a chance to win. Those who secured their best result on the first day could skate freely for fun or try something experimental on the second day. Skating one program doesn't mean skating necessarily same program after all

 

[4everchan]

Actually, skating one program would have the best advantage exactly in 2 days (or 2 runs) format of competition. Then, only the best effort could count and real comebacks could be possible. In combined points format, we have seen unique comeback skates (Mao Asada, Nathan Chen...) that still didn't bring skaters anywhere near medals. In "best result points only" format, we would get a better chance to get the best from each skaters and get it rewarded. Those who ruined their skate the previous day would still have a chance to win. Those who secured their best result on the first day could skate freely for fun or try something experimental on the second day. Skating one program doesn't mean skating necessarily same program after all

i don't know... i am not convinced at all with "best result points only" because then emphasis would be put even more on YOLO jumps... a bit like in extreme sports... where they get 2 or 3 runs and only the best result counts... athletes play safe at first, and then if a good score is secured, they go nuts next.... what would that mean in figure skating? Not sure I want to see that honestly.

 

[Anna K.]

i don't know... i am not convinced at all with "best result points only" because then emphasis would be put even more on YOLO jumps... a bit like in extreme sports... where they get 2 or 3 runs and only the best result counts... athletes play safe at first, and then if a good score is secured, they go nuts next.... what would that mean in figure skating? Not sure I want to see that honestly.

As a massive fan of extreme sports I can tell you that it's not just YOLO that counts. Aesthetics also do
The "best score counts" strategy depends massively on the character of an athlete. Some play safe, some take risks, some are creative, some are calculative... It also massively depends of what has been achieved by other athletes. If a medal is secured, athletes often opt for a simple second jump that looks aesthetic and pleases the crowd instead of "going nuts" whatever this might mean. But it still depends on the character of the athlete. So in figure skating, athletes might choose depending on their character to try that quad Axel or just dance

 

[4everchan]

As a massive fan of extreme sports I can tell you that it's not just YOLO that counts. Aesthetics also do
The "best score counts" strategy depends massively on the character of an athlete. Some play safe, some take risks, some are creative, some are calculative... It also massively depends of what has been achieved by other athletes. If a good score is achieved, athletes often opt for a simple second jump that looks aesthetic and pleases the crowd instead of "going nuts" whatever this might mean. But it still depends on the character of the athlete. So in figure skating, athletes might choose depending on their character to try that quad Axel or just dance

you know... one of the things that has alienated so many fans is the constant change of rules and scoring systems in figure skating....

if the ISU were to drastically change the way athletes are evaluated, they better get it right and for good.

I am not convinced by this idea of "best score counts"

I do watch extreme sports a lot too... (well only winter ones) but then, none of them has music and program components and fancy outfits... yes, there is flair and style.. but it's still very acrobatic and skill based.

I don't see how it would work for figure skating unless it's a jumping and spin contest... no music. just acrobatics..

 

[Anna K.]

I am not convinced by this idea of "best score counts"

All right. Got it

 

[4everchan]

All right. Got it

but nevertheless... an interesting discussion...

What does this sport needs the most?

 

[Ziotic]

I would prefer more stringent rules in the short. Sorta like the juniors where you have to perform a specific jump and also rotate between flying sit/camel yearly and alternate between toe and loop in the combo yearly.

I would also want to see a choreo sequence but have to perform specific moves, spread eagle/ Ina Bauer and include a change of edge spiral, I want to see people prove they can hold an edge since most nowadays can’t

 

[el henry]

The last thing I want is "Oh goodie, let's have one program where everyone will jump their little hearts out and not do much else". That for me, is not figure skating.

Then again, I remember when the SP was introduced. Precisely to allow a program where everyone can jump their little hearts out and do other "Technical" moves and to allow more creativity in the free.

Because Toller (and Janet Lynn) kept losing.

To me, the athleticism and strategy required to maximize points over two programs is the definition of sport. So, as a sports fan, I like it as it is.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Am I the only one who likes the current format?
I mean sure I'd change some rules for both programs. but there isn't anything wrong with it.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

No thanks LOL!

 

[Seven Sisters]

I’d actually prefer something that would make competitions longer, namely, bring back the compulsory dances

As a second choice, at the very least, we need a good stretch of pattern in the RD

 

[Anna K.]

Once we talk about different formats: what was the format (or formats) of professional FS competitions when there were such?
I just realized that I don't really know

 

[Anna K.]

No thanks LOL!

Why not?

I mean, from fans' point it's clear and understandable: the more figure skating, the better. But how about the sports insiders? Wouldn't it make the life simpler for you?