Opinion: The brevity of skating careers

[Mathman]

...If you think a string of ... wonder teenagers are what brings success, heaps more genius skaters with mature and complex artistry in a teenager brain, and huge loyal audiences (to a string of one-or-two-hit wonders, it would seem) you should be nodding furiously.

As for me. I take the "big tent" tack. I might change "teenager brain" to youthful athleticism and exuberance, but I think there is plenty of room for someone like Julia Lipnitskia to light up the sky and capture our hearts for a season, then move on, as well as for the masters who continually refine and reinvent themselves to push the sport to ever greater heights.

We see this in team sports as well. We follow the verteran champions with pleasure and awe, while at the same time we can't wait to see what the new crop of rookies will bring to the table next year.

 

[4everchan]

Sport is entertainment.

Yes, but not exclusively and it doesn't go easily the other way around... Competing and shows are two different things and those are two different careers.. That's the point I am making and if you disagree with it, that's fine but it doesn't make my point less valid... I will stop there with the semantics because I never want ever again to be stuck in a thread like the one about art. Sorry but it was a once in a lifetime experience for me.

 

[Magill]

As for me. I take the "big tent" tack. I might change "teenager brain" to youthful athleticism and exuberance, but I think there is plenty of room for someone like Julia Lipnitskia to light up the sky and capture our hearts for a season, then move on, as well as for the masters who continually refine and reinvent themselves to push the sport to ever greater heights.

We see this in team sports as well. We follow the verteran champions with pleasure and awe, while at the same time we can't wait to see what the new crop of rookies will bring to the table next year.

I do not think it is about the size of the tent but about how long they stay in it. And why and how they leave.
Julia did not just move on after Sochi. If she had just decided she wanted to do something else now, it would not have been a problem at all. But it was much more complicated. She left traumatized. She was grinded by the grinding machine and left cold on the other side, I think that's more accurate description. And she was a child who was just not able to cope. As much for those who long for, oh, so young and youthful champions.

 

[Magill]

No one has answered my question on Shoma when he was down and looked out, on Patrick and Jason in 2018, on Keegan et al. Hands up those who think they should have accepted their decrepitide and made way then. Or there's Takahashi, it's positively criminal him coming back at his advanced age to do ice dance! Come on, if you think a string of one-or-two-hit wonder teenagers are what brings success, heaps more genius skaters with mature and complex artistry in a teenager brain, and huge loyal audiences to that string of one-or-two-hit wonders you should be nodding furiously.

I can't help to wonder how long they think should be given to those new bright things to shine before they kick them out to make room for some new one...

 

[TallyT]

We follow the verteran champions with pleasure and awe, while at the same time we can't wait to see what the new crop of rookies will bring to the table next year.

Which is the best of both worlds.

Yes but not exclusively

There may be other reasons like doing some sort of exercise we hate for the sake of our health - been there done that, blame my physiotherapist - but if you are playing sport, you tend to choose a sport you enjoy aka are entertained by doing, if you watch, you tend to be entertained or go to sleep even on the hard wooden seats.

Julia did not just move on after Sochi. If she had just decided she wanted to do something else now, it would not have been a problem at all. But it was much more complicated. She left traumatized. She was grinded by the grinding machine and left cold on the other side, I think that's more accurate description. And she was a child who was just not able to cope. As much for those who long for, oh, so young and youthful champions.

This is a very good reason why giving the very young precedence in any elite sport is a dangerous thing. It's a brutal, often cruel and unforgiving world even at its best.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

All is grist that comes to the Golden Skate mill.

But I do think that figure skating languishes if it diminishes any aspect of the arc of its rainbow.

Some of my fondest memories as an enthusiastic fan and spectator have been local club shows. Little kids (including a few toddlers so young that they had to be carried onto the ice by their coaches), well-choreographed group numbers for skaters on a continuum of levels of age, training and talent, advanced students whom I would otherwise never have heard of displaying impressive prodigies of achievement, the occasional guest star or adult alum to close the show. This is the life’s blood of the sport. You can’t have a long life if you never have a life at all.

At the other end of the rainbow is the pot of gold. It is not an accident that the golden age of figure skating in the United States coincided with the greatest fan access to high-profile professional competitions (for instance Dick Button’s Landover productions) and shows like Stars on Ice. Who contributed more to the prospering of figure skating in America than Scott Hamilton? (OK, maybe Peggy Fleming or Dorothy Hamill ). Every week brought a pro event (who would win this time, Brian Boitano or Kurt Browning? Kristi Yamaguchi or Yuka Sato?), an entertaining cheesefest, or a “skating special” to free prime-time network TV. How can we discuss what a “long career” means and leave out of account an extra ten years in the sport after Olympic-style competition?

My hat is off to those athletes and entertainers who keep the torch alive by appearing at venues like Sun Valley, either as fondly remembered guest stars or as regulars. A while back I went on a cruise and guess who was on board to ensure smooth sailing? Ann Patrice McDonnough – 2002 world junior champion, retired from competition in 2004.

Thank you for giving a hoot about us pros.

 

[rabidline]

I think there's no wrong way to enjoy figure skating, and the insistence that there's only one "correct" way can alienate fellow enjoyers and make consuming the sport less fun.

I don't see any conflict between fans wanting to see younger skaters rise and fans hoping older skaters stay to share what they still can share. When younger skaters who reach success early retire, the fans who really like the sport will move on to follow the next younger skaters who come up. When older skaters with longer careers retire, the fans who really like the sport will find new skaters or stay in the sport to follow the skaters they liked during their time following the sport.

I never really felt right judging skaters and telling them when they should retire. Aside from ice dance, which is a special case... whichever athletes are staying seems to be aware of the consequences. They chose to compete, meaning they chose to play by the current rules, as that is their responsibility as athletes. If they can keep up, great, they'll compete at the top. If they can't keep up, as long as they can accept not getting to the biggest competitions, or being beaten by skaters who are able to perform better than them based by the rules, and still want to skate, who am I to say no to that? There are kids competing in novice and there are working salaryman/woman competing in adult skating (and sometimes even amateur competitions). As long as they're not blaming the sport for the decision that they made, I don't see any issue with that.

Competitive skating is entertainment- but the way it entertains also has range, being a mix of sports, pageantry, and art. There are those who are here for the pretty costumes and beautiful people with their colorful personality. There are those who are here for how far the skaters can incorporate artistic influences in a sport where the main objective is to compete. There are also those who are here for the magic of sports itself... how ice is slippery so anything can happen: unpredictable upset wins, comebacks from athletes who are counted down and out, athletes stopping their downward spiral after a lot of misery, or athletes extending their dominance because they're just that good competitively. Personally I love how beautiful skating can be in non-competitive skating and have paid for show tickets, but I can't deny the adrenaline I get from following a competition where anything can happen, even if my favorite skaters didn't do well and I get annoyed with the depressing takes after. But that sort of rush, I can only get from sports. I think there's no wrong way to be entertained, and skating seems capable to provide all that, be it highs and lows.

The thing that hurts skating the most for me is just how difficult it is to follow entire competitions. It's why I understand fans who are really enjoying junior competitions, because it's easy and free to watch and follow! I'm already a skating fan so it doesn't hurt me, but the chance for other people to discover competitive skating is not as big at it was when nothing can be watched. Maybe Netflix will pick up broadcasting competitive skating one day and things will suddenly change

 

[rabidline]

No one has answered my question on Shoma when he was down and looked out, on Patrick and Jason in 2018, on Keegan et al. Hands up those who think they should have accepted their decrepitide and made way then.

I'm not going to lie, in 2018-2019 I had a thought for Shoma that if skating hurts him that much, there's no shame in walking out of it. Even as his fan. Because it's not about the declining form, the disaster skates, or even the results making him look "down and out" but it was visible that he was in such an unhappy state to compete, it's depressing to watch as someone who likes him and likes skating. Like... his perspective on competing was actively getting worse even when the result was... fine, acceptable, not disasters.

Thankfully he did find his love of skating and enjoyment to compete back and got himself together BECAUSE of the disaster skate and the support he received then (this!!! the magic of sports!!! that athletes can find salvation at their lowest point!!!) and everything after felt lighter even if he still missed podiums and didn't win everything. But if he had stopped competing then in order to put his life together, it wouldn't have been a problem with me. And I think the same for other skaters who make the decisions for themselves.

 

[icewhite]

I feel completely misunderstood and I don't know how that happened because I never ever said I any athlete deciding to retire early was in the wrong or that I wanted to force people to stay in the sport for my pleasure when they didn't want to anymore.

I have brought my sister's example. I would never say she should have continued for longer despite her not wanting to do that. Actually her coach freaked out when she learned my sister was going to spend half a year abroad where she couldn't train properly. Just when she was becoming so good! I pretty much hated the coach for that. Thankfully my sister didn't listen and did what she wanted to do. But yeah, that's definitely behaviour I don't want to see and something I would never do myself. Well, my sister was actually not discontent in the sport, she just had different priorities.

But if people are unhappy in the sport, how can the solution be "well, so many people have chronic pain, suffer from abusive coaches, public pressure, pressure from feds or coaches or fans, have to starve themselves, so maybe it's better if the careers are not that long"? The solution to those problems, in my eyes, is to actively search for ways so that people, at least not on a systematic level, do not have to suffer from all these things. Reduce injuries and wear and tear, give them better access on how to stay healthy physically and mentally, get rid of abusive coaches, get rid of toxic commentators, deal with the topic eating disorders etc. etc.

If people still want to leave the sport when they are 17 or 20 fine, I respect that 100%. They are not in the wrong! But I would prefer and think it would definitely help the sport if athletes, on average, stayed longer, and by longer I actually don't mean, wow, she's already 22, he's 25, when does he retire?

Athletic abilities, even those that decline rather fast, like sprinting, do not significantly decrease until late 20s/30 years of age. The best sprinters in the world are in their 20s, often late 20s, sometimes even 30s, sometimes even late 30s!
The only thing that decreases very early is flexibility. Yet, to be competitive in figure skating it is not necessary to have the flexibility of a 12 year old. People do not tend to end their careers because they are not flexible enough anymore.

 

[streams4dreams]

Maybe Netflix will pick up broadcasting competitive skating one day and things will suddenly change

That's an interesting idea. I definitely noticed it with Korean dramas on Netflix: ~7 years ago they were very niche, but these days almost every show produced can be seen on Netflix (or some other platform) worldwide, and they even produce some of the shows themselves! I guess we know Disney+ would stream figure skating if the circumstances are right , so who knows, maybe this could be a way to have those 4-5 year-olds mentioned before get inspired to try skating, much like they used to in the era of shows on prime-time TV. And as one thing follows another, more events would provide more opportunities for people to stick around longer.

 

[rabidline]

That's an interesting idea. I definitely noticed it with Korean dramas on Netflix: ~7 years ago they were very niche, but these days almost every show produced can be seen on Netflix (or some other platform) worldwide, and they even produce some of the shows themselves! I guess we know Disney+ would stream figure skating if the circumstances are right , so who knows, maybe this could be a way to have those 4-5 year-olds mentioned before get inspired to try skating, much like they used to in the era of shows on prime-time TV. And as one thing follows another, more events would provide more opportunities for people to stick around longer.

I'm thinking about Formula 1 too. That's another convoluted sport, which I followed as a child because it's free to watch on my local TV. They started airing "Drive to Survive" on Netflix and the influx of fans for F1 was pretty significant, even if they followed F1 for different reasons than the fans who have followed F1 longer. It changed the landscape of F1 fandom, for better and worse depending on how you see it.

Hulu and Abema in Japan have also streamed figure skating too, Hulu even before Disney+. But I think it's more about making the whole competitive sport available to follow, with the ups and downs that comes from the sport, that will improve awareness of skating and hopefully get more investment out of it. But there needs to be money coming in first in order to invest in the product, produce and present it (same with everything that's produced by Netflix), and I'm not sure where that kind of money can come from.

 

[4everchan]

Figure skating used to be on traditional skating. What was the most popular was probably these pro-am or pro competitions. Sometimes, they were cheese fest more than other times. This, with a few more traditional events (what we call today GPs and ISU championships) would make a great offering for casual viewers. That's how I got hooked, way before I could follow the sport seriously.

The regular TV offerings disappeared when the pro-am/pro competitions disappeared. I think that casual viewers back then were more exposed to figure skating. Now it's quite rare. So sure, putting events on netflix may help the sport but I doubt netflix would see what we watch (challengers and GPs_ appealing enough for their viewers to get behind it.

I'm thinking about Formula 1 too. That's another convoluted sport, which I followed as a child because it's free to watch on my local TV. They started airing "Drive to Survive" on Netflix and the influx of fans for F1 was pretty significant, even if they followed F1 for different reasons than the fans who have followed F1 longer. It changed the landscape of F1 fandom, for better and worse depending on how you see it.

Hulu and Abema in Japan have also streamed figure skating too, before Disney+. But I think it's more about making the whole competitive sport available to follow, with the ups and downs that comes from the sport, that will improve awareness of skating and hopefully get more investment out of it. But there needs to be money coming in first in order to invest in the product, produce and present it (same with everything that's produced by Netflix), and I'm not sure where that kind of money can come from.

And yes, netflix did a series on Formula 1, hugely popular... but their series on tennis was not as successful to say the least...

 

[rabidline]

Figure skating used to be on traditional skating. What was the most popular was probably these pro-am or pro competitions. Sometimes, they were cheese fest more than other times. This, with a few more traditional events (what we call today GPs and ISU championships) would make a great offering for casual viewers. That's how I got hooked, way before I could follow the sport seriously.

The regular TV offerings disappeared when the pro-am/pro competitions disappeared. I think that casual viewers back then were more exposed to figure skating. Now it's quite rare. So sure, putting events on netflix may help the sport but I doubt netflix would see what we watch (challengers and GPs_ appealing enough for their viewers to get behind it.

And yes, netflix did a series on Formula 1, hugely popular... but their series on tennis was not as successful to say the least...

It's why I think there needs to be money coming in to Netflix first, in order to create and produce a more polished product from the competitions that figure skating have now, that can be easier to digest by the Netflix watchers.

In my opinion, their series on Tennis "Break Point" was not as successful because they tried to follow the same format as "Drive to Survive" but tennis works differently than F1. It's easier to follow every F1 driver because once they make the team, they are guaranteed to compete in every single race barring serious injury or suspension, whether they finished first, in the middle, or the last. The appeal of F1 is not just at the top, but also rooting for the middle guys to have a miracle and break through, and for the bottom guys to have a miracle to avoid being last or even make it to placements that gets their team points.

With tennis, once a player lose in a tournament, they lost. No do-overs and no continuing forward. There's no more story of that player that can be followed further. And when Netflix is not allowed access to the biggest names in tennis (because individually they can get more lucrative deals with other streaming services for their own exclusive documentaries...), they have to settle with players who are not guaranteed to make it to the biggest stages of competitions, and they can't create a product out of the big competitions because the tennis players who win them don't give them access. So there's a discrepancy between the actual tennis happening and the product created by Netflix, and some people may end up getting not interested in tennis because... well, what's the point when you can't get the POV into the biggest competitions?

I can be wrong, but I think FS, at least the GP series, share more similarities with F1 than tennis. You're guaranteed to see the top participants twice in the series barring injuries. Heck, people got into FS because of Yuri on Ice and that anime placed bigger importance on the GP series + GPF compared to other competitions (and it also makes more sense).

 

[4everchan]

There may be other reasons like doing some sort of exercise we hate for the sake of our health - been there done that, blame my physiotherapist - but if you are playing sport, you tend to choose a sport you enjoy aka are entertained by doing, if you watch, you tend to be entertained or go to sleep even on the hard wooden seats.

You are missing my point. I am opposing competitive figure skating to show skating in the context of this thread. Show skating can indeed be a great career for many elite athletes. But when discussing longevity of figure skaters as athletes, my brain doesn't include show skating in it. It's a completely different thing to train for competitive skating than to skate on Stars on Ice. As a matter of fact, many skaters, when they feel that they can no longer submit themselves to the hardcore training and lifestyle of a competitive skater opt to show skating. They do it because they love skating and they see another career available for them.

I can compare it to my field. Some artists perform week after week, and have to practice hours and hours, travel all the time etc. Lots of stress. Incredible amount of work. Then, they move into teaching, with a much less busy performing schedule (if at all). That's a new career. It comes from the first one, it's made possible by the first one, but it's not the same career.

So to me longevity in the sport = competitive skating. And then, the question becomes interesting : how would it be possible for skaters who do want it, to facilitate longevity in the sport. It's obviously not everyone's goal. Some skaters have other passions and interests. Some want to study. Some want to do completely different things. But for those who want to remain on the circuit, is there a way to make it happen ?

For instance, the whole GP is not very inclusive. In singles, 72 spots are given, and many skaters get two... so 36... Let's say 40 skaters get to compete on the main circuit. That's very few.
Also, with back to back events, week after week, some skaters are extremely tired. Some even opt not to do GP anymore (Jason Brown). It's a very difficult lifestyle to sustain as the schedule is too tight. There could be a week off after 2 events to give time to skaters a bit more rest... Simple things like that may help. Elements can be an issue as well. For instance, rules are changed. Women no longer have to do a layback spin. Many had flexibility issues and even back problems. Removing that element helps longevity. Lowering the quad BV in pairs has discouraged many from attempting these quad throws. Considering the high risk of these elements, it may be a good thing for longevity !


This is what I am talking about and also seems to be what the OP is after. How could scheduling, rules, and the governing body (ISU) could help skaters who want to have a longer career get what they wish for.

I am not sure why there is a need to talk about stars on ice.

 

[4everchan]

It's why I think there needs to be money coming in to Netflix first, in order to create and produce a more polished product from the competitions that figure skating have now, that can be easier to digest by the Netflix watchers.

In my opinion, their series on Tennis "Break Point" was not a successful because they tried to follow the same format as "Drive to Survive" but tennis works differently than F1. It's easier to follow every F1 driver because once they make the team, they are guaranteed to compete in every single race barring serious injury or suspension, whether they finished first, in the middle, or the last. The appeal of F1 is not just at the top, but also rooting for the middle guys to have a miracle and break through, and for the bottom guys to have a miracle to avoid being last or even make it to placements that gets their team points.

With tennis, once a player lose in a tournament, they lost. No do-overs and no continuing forward. There's no more story of that player that can be followed further. And when Netflix is not allowed access to the biggest names in tennis (because individually they can get more lucrative deals with other streaming services for their own exclusive documentaries...), they have to settle with players who are not guaranteed to make it to the biggest stages of competitions, and they can't create a product out of the big competitions because the tennis players who win them don't give them access. So there's a discrepancy between the actual tennis happening and the product created by Netflix, and some people may end up getting not interested in tennis because... well, what's the point when you can't get the POV into the biggest competitions?

I can be wrong, but I think FS, at least the GP series, share more similarities with F1 than tennis. You're guaranteed to see the top participants twice in the series barring injuries. Heck, people got into FS because of Yuri on Ice and that anime placed bigger importance on the GP series + GPF compared to other competitions (and it also makes more sense).

I haven't watched the F1 nor the Tennis shows... but one thing that I read is that fans thought tennis players were boring... not gossiping enough.. compared to F1. I am not sure figure skaters would speak candidly considering it's a judged sport.... Would someone like Shaidorov (or anyone really) complain about his lutz being marked Q or not getting high enough PCS and call out the judges? Now, that may interest the viewers... but it wouldn't happen.

 

[rabidline]

I haven't watched the F1 nor the Tennis shows... but one thing that I read is that fans thought tennis players were boring... not gossiping enough.. compared to F1. I am not sure figure skaters would speak candidly considering it's a judged sport.... Would someone like Shaidorov (or anyone really) complain about his lutz being marked Q or not getting high enough PCS and call out the judges? Now, that may interest the viewers... but it wouldn't happen.

I mean... the material is there, when we remember Ilia's Instagram live mishap this summer and who knows what the others think. But I think the F1 Netflix product is more appealing because there's an illusion of "no one ever truly lost" that makes them easier to root for, with how the sport works. With Tennis, not only you get stuck with the players you don't get that invested with, then they lose early in competitions, and doesn't have any power to like... actually impact tennis. As an audience that's just not an appealing POV to follow.

But there are other ways to create a product that doesn't need to rely on gossip. Our figure skaters are very attractive, that's one thing. And some of those attractive people worked together to compete (before their split Kagalovskaya and Angelopol were absolute TikTok darlings). And there are also a lot of great interactions and multi-cultural relationships between the competitors, the complex relationships between coaches and their skaters, and there are the external factors that can be the "big bad" like the federations making questionable decisions, the sponsors giving their trust in skaters, the media blowing up every single news about the skaters, that can induce pressure in the skaters. There can even be a focus on how sports culture in every country see figure skating differently, and how that impacts the skaters. The health aspect, and the injuries skaters accumulate. The financial burdens, the way FS is treated differently from other sports despite the danger being the same or even higher. We just need people who can make a coherent, interesting product out of it and other people to fund the whole thing.

 

[4everchan]

I mean... the material is there, when we remember Ilia's Instagram live mishap this summer and who knows what the others think.

But there are other ways to create a product that doesn't need to rely on gossip. Our figure skaters are very attractive, that's one thing. And there are also a lot of great interactions and multi-cultural relationships between the competitors, the complex relationships between coaches and their skaters, and there are the external factors that can be the "big bad" like the federations making questionable decisions, the sponsors giving their trust in skaters, the media blowing up every single news about the skaters, that can induce pressure in the skaters. There can even be a focus on how sports culture in every country see figure skating differently, and how that impacts the skaters. The health aspect, and the injuries skaters accumulate. The financial burdens, the way FS is treated differently from other sports despite the danger being the same or even higher. We just need people who can make a coherent, interesting product out of it and other people to fund the whole thing.

Yup... and that's what I thought tennis could give as well the players can be very attractive, complex relationships, players from all over the world, etc etc... and the head-to-head matches. But yeah, apparently fans thought it was boring. Of course if they were to make a series on your avatar boy and/or mine, I may watch

 

[rabidline]

But if people are unhappy in the sport, how can the solution be "well, so many people have chronic pain, suffer from abusive coaches, public pressure, pressure from feds or coaches or fans, have to starve themselves, so maybe it's better if the careers are not that long"? The solution to those problems, in my eyes, is to actively search for ways so that people, at least not on a systematic level, do not have to suffer from all these things. Reduce injuries and wear and tear, give them better access on how to stay healthy physically and mentally, get rid of abusive coaches, get rid of toxic commentators, deal with the topic eating disorders etc. etc.

I definitely agree on this. It's a challenge on how to get this solution be highlighted in the sport. But I have to acknowledge that there are fans who get into the sport because of the self-sacrificial aspect of it though. That there are people who are willing to sacrifice all their health and happiness in order to reach their goal in the sport and win and make their life better. There are people who find that attitude inspirational and admirable and make them enjoy the sport and follow it.

Of course if they were to make a series on your avatar boy and/or mine, I may watch

Ah yes, a series about a Japanese skater who nearly quit skating and finding an ex-skater European coach who helped him continue his career- (starts coughing) lol, I'm joking.

 

[TallyT]

You are missing my point. I am opposing competitive figure skating to show skating in the context of this thread. Show skating can indeed be a great career for many elite athletes. But when discussing longevity of figure skaters as athletes, my brain doesn't include show skating in it. It's a completely different thing to train for competitive skating than to skate on Stars on Ice. As a matter of fact, many skaters, when they feel that they can no longer submit themselves to the hardcore training and lifestyle of a competitive skater opt to show skating. They do it because they love skating and they see another career available for them.

I can compare it to my field. Some artists perform week after week, and have to practice hours and hours, travel all the time etc. Lots of stress. Incredible amount of work. Then, they move into teaching, with a much less busy performing schedule (if at all). That's a new career. It comes from the first one, it's made possible by the first one, but it's not the same career.

So to me longevity in the sport = competitive skating. And then, the question becomes interesting : how would it be possible for skaters who do want it, to facilitate longevity in the sport. It's obviously not everyone's goal. Some skaters have other passions and interests. Some want to study. Some want to do completely different things. But for those who want to remain on the circuit, is there a way to make it happen ?

For instance, the whole GP is not very inclusive. In singles, 72 spots are given, and many skaters get two... so 36... Let's say 40 skaters get to compete on the main circuit. That's very few.
Also, with back to back events, week after week, some skaters are extremely tired. Some even opt not to do GP anymore (Jason Brown). It's a very difficult lifestyle to sustain as the schedule is too tight. There could be a week off after 2 events to give time to skaters a bit more rest... Simple things like that may help. Elements can be an issue as well. For instance, rules are changed. Women no longer have to do a layback spin. Many had flexibility issues and even back problems. Removing that element helps longevity. Lowering the quad BV in pairs has discouraged many from attempting these quad throws. Considering the high risk of these elements, it may be a good thing for longevity !


This is what I am talking about and also seems to be what the OP is after. How could scheduling, rules, and the governing body (ISU) could help skaters who want to have a longer career get what they wish for.

I am not sure why there is a need to talk about stars on ice.

Oh I understand and in a lot of ways I agree with you (we have to stop doing this, though ) and I can't speak for others but my forays into talking about shows were meant to emphasise the financial rewards that long-term success in competition can bring and another reason why longevity at the top level is a plus in attracting the best. If I was unclear, I apologise.

It's just that I do think any sport, whether as a participant or spectator, is essentially recreational entertainment. And a good thing too.

 

[4everchan]

Oh I understand and in a lot of ways I agree with you (we have to stop doing this, though ) and I can't speak for others but my forays into talking about shows were meant to emphasise the financial rewards that long-term success in competition can bring and another reason why longevity at the top level is a plus in attracting the best. If I was unclear, I apologise.

Yes and no. Not all show skaters have olympic medals... Some don't even have national titles like Elladj Baldé or recently Proft and Nadeau. There is more than one path. However, yes, a good competitive career can have a great impact on a skater's future in show skating, if they want it... Someone like Tessa Virtue said she was done.. not sure what she is doing right now. Scott Moir coaches obviously.

It's just that I do think any sport, whether as a participant or spectator, is essentially recreational entertainment. And a good thing too.

Have you done competitive sport? It's a lifestyle. It's really intense. I was never "that good" at it but I did swim/train 4 hours a day almost every day for a few years. There was very little entertainment really and trust me, I am easily entertained That's why I made the nuance as I could imagine easily how a show career for an olympic level skater is another business altogether. Not saying it's less important, just different.