Patrick Chan has a new quad, ready to defend title

[mskater93]

The mechanics of A, T, and S are *similar* from a transition from one side to the other, so they must have worked out an easy way for him to transfer technique from 4T to 4S and it worked right away. Also, it will take longer to determine the biomechanics of the 4F simply because no one has done one yet.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Well, if that's the case then why not try the 4F instead of 4S? Besides 4F is worth more than 4S. Besides, if he can do 4F, he will be the first, right? I don't see his logic to try 4S instead of 4F.

I'm quite sure he's working on 4F. I don't think he's planning to have 4S first, and 4F second. Whichever comes first, will be welcomed. To his own delight and surprise, he got 4S on the first try, so...

 

[pohatta]

Frédéric Dambier landed quite a few quad salchows in both sp and lp. Here's one of him doing a 4s-3t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vKQgnrQoSU

 

[janetfan]

I'm quite sure he's working on 4F. I don't think he's planning to have 4S first, and 4F second. Whichever comes first, will be welcomed. To his own delight and surprise, he got 4S on the first try, so...

Regarding your dreamy delight I have no doubt.

The rest of us will wait to see it happen. So far we have seen a 4t. This talk about 4S and 4F is just TALK.

BTW, some of us remember Tim's 4S.

That was not done in practice but on Olympic ice.

The day I learned about sports that was quite a difference, no?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Nothing wrong with a little dreaming.

 

[janetfan]

Nothing wrong with a little dreaming.

I agree and still hope Patrick will master the 3A. Without it he can never be cosnidered as one of the all-time great skaters,

Most of us know that 20-30% of his scores are gifted by Lori's lobbying.

I hope he can show it without all the lobbying and politics.

Before all the nonsense about imaginary quads he nees to show a solid 3A.

Maybe this season.

And don't forget as we get closer to Sochi the Russians will spend as much as it takes to bring Patrick down.

Is Canada willing to spend what it takes for Patrick to win Gold on Russian ice in 2014??

 

[Violet Bliss]

Hey, Hernando, been talkin' to Johnny?

 

[janetfan]

Hey, Hernando, been talkin' to Johnny?

Not really but I don't disagree with what he has been saying.

Give me a quick recap of all the Canadian Men who have won the OGM....... :think:

 

[Violet Bliss]

.........like Johnny, eh?

eta. OK, not against the American OGMedalists. Been defending Lysacek. What I meant is I'd rather hear the criticism from the American OGM winners.

 

[janetfan]

.........like Johnny, eh?

eta. OK, not against the American OGMedalists. Been defending Lysacek. What I meant is I'd rather hear the criticism from the American OGM winners.

If you want criticism of the CoP look no further.

Button, Scott and Boitano can't stand it.

Evan, on the other hand loves the CoP

 

[fscric]

I'm sure when Patrick masters the triple axel, he'll be asked to have a solid quad loop before he can be considered as one of the all-time greats; it's just that no matter what he accomplishes that won't be enough in the eyes of some people (and I don't particularly refer to Hernando).

 

[Violet Bliss]

Hey, Hernando, how much did Lori lobby these British guys and how much did Skate Canada pay them? And even back then?

And these French commentators who emphatically gushed that no one in the history of figure skating has achieved the level of skating Patrick did back in 2009? And were outraged that he didn't score over 90 and beat Joubert? And who lobied and paid Philippe Pelissier this year to declare Patrick Chan the greatest figure skater ever?

And who paid Scott back in 2007, 2009 and a couple of months ago?

Boitano mentored Chan and has had nothing but the best to say about him.

By the way, aren't there gorgeous 3As galore in these competition videos?

 

[fscric]

Hey, SkateFiguring, don't let facts get in the way of any discussion about Patrick Chan, it's just a futile effort.

 

[Bluebonnet]

By the way, aren't there gorgeous 3As galore in these competition videos?

Exactly!:yes: I don't get those "master 3A first" talks. Haven't Patrick Chan already had many successful 3As in competitions?

 

[janetfan]

Exactly!:yes: I don't get those "master 3A first" talks. Haven't Patrick Chan already had many successful 3As in competitions?

Adam Rippon has landed 3A's in competition but I don't think he has mastered that jump yet.

How many times has Plushenko fallen on his 3A? Or Oda? Or Johnny?
They have mastered the 3A.

Patrick still misses and my point was he needs a solid 3A rather than 3 different quads at this stage of his career.

Did Patrick land his 3A's at '09 Worlds? Did he land them at the Olympics? What about 2010 Worlds?
What about at SC last season and RostelCup?

Maybe I am wrong and Patrick is like the other top guys and rarely misses his 3A in competition.

Who landed more 3A's at the Olympics and 2010 Worlds, Mao or Patrick?

 

[fscric]

Did Patrick land his 3A's at '09 Worlds?

Unless SP doesn't count, I believe Patrick Chan landed it there.

 

[lowtherlore]

Adam Rippon has landed 3A's in competition but I don't think he has mastered that jump yet.

How many times has Plushenko fallen on his 3A? Or Oda? Or Johnny?
They have mastered the 3A.

Patrick still misses and my point was he needs a solid 3A rather than 3 different quads at this stage of his career.

Did Patrick land his 3A's at '09 Worlds? Did he land them at the Olympics? What about 2010 Worlds?
What about at SC last season and RostelCup?

Maybe I am wrong and Patrick is like the other top guys and rarely misses his 3A in competition.

Who landed more 3A's at the Olympics and 2010 Worlds, Mao or Patrick?

I guess that last sentence is what you’ve been trying to reach at. I hope you were not serious in comparing the 3As of Chan’s with Asada’s. In Vancouver, her 3A in SP looked marginally OK, but both of her two attempts in LP should have been downgraded. If other female skaters adopted the same cheated techniques (pre rotations to backward takeoffs and under rotated landings) as hers from their early ages, we would be witnessing many of them claiming 3As by now. I don’t consider Asada a good jumper at all except for her hit-and-miss, and marginal at best, 3As. She’s definitely inferior to someone like Ando, let alone Kim or Kostner, in jumping techniques.

Back to Chan, what’s wrong with trying to have multiple quads before having reliable 3As? It (having the 2nd or 3rd quads at hand) would only help stabilize his 3As, at least psychologically, as it would give him options when his 3As are not working well.

I think, barring injuries, he can really dominate, with the kind of skating he has. He has no equal among his contemporaries in skating skills. One live look at his skating two years ago made me a believer, instantly.

 

[janetfan]

I guess that last sentence is what you’ve been trying to reach at. I hope you were not serious in comparing the 3As of Chan’s with Asada’s. In Vancouver, her 3A in SP looked marginally OK, but both of her two attempts in LP should have been downgraded. If other female skaters adopted the same cheated techniques (pre rotations to backward takeoffs and under rotated landings) as hers from their early ages, we would be witnessing many of them claiming 3As by now. I don’t consider Asada a good jumper at all except for her hit-and-miss, and marginal at best, 3As. She’s definitely inferior to someone like Ando, let alone Kim or Kostner, in jumping techniques.

Back to Chan, what’s wrong with trying to have multiple quads before having reliable 3As? It (having the 2nd or 3rd quads at hand) would only help stabilize his 3As, at least psychologically, as it would give him options when his 3As are not working well.

I think, barring injuries, he can really dominate, with the kind of skating he has. He has no equal among his contemporaries in skating skills. One live look at his skating two years ago made me a believer, instantly.

All good points (yes, the Mao comparison was not so serious)
Here is why I bring up the 3A. An axel jump is a requirement in the SP and to be competitive a skater needs a reliable 3A.

BTW, I am not saying Patrick won't have a reliable 3A this season. But since it is required in the SP as opposed to muliple quads it makes sense for any top skater to have a consistent 3A.

The LP is different and if Patrick can land two or even three quads in the LP it makes the 3A less important.
But we saw Lambiel try a similar strategy and it did not get him back on the Olympic podium.

I am not as sure of Patrick's "invincibilty" as some of you.
Kozuka had a vey weak SP last season and it really took him out of the title picture vs a clean Chan.

If Kozuka has two good programs this season all it might take for him to win the SP is Chan falling on his 3A.
Then the LP could be up for grabs. Personally I preferred Kozuka's LP at Worlds although the judges scored Chan higher.

But Chan won the WC fair and square and quite handily by building such a nice cushion in the SP.
It seems sure Kozuka's team must be aware of this and look for him to have a better SP this season.

 

[lowtherlore]

I didn’t say Chan is invincible. Ice is slippery and, with politics combined, there’s no guaranty the best skater would come out winning.

As for Kozuka, he’s a good skater, but if you have a chance to see them skate back to back, you would understand what I was talking about.

 

[janetfan]

I didn’t say Chan is invincible. Ice is slippery and, with politics combined, there’s no guaranty the best skater would come out winning.

As for Kozuka, he’s a good skater, but if you have a chance to see them skate back to back, you would understand what I was talking about.

I have seen neither of them skate Live but have heard others say something similar.
Have also heard it about Evan being better Live too.

Some of it gets down to taste. At times Chan seems a bit "over choreographed" to me.
I like to see some basic stroking and gliding to the music occassionally.

I think it was BOP who pointed out that is part of choreography too and at times missing in CoP programs.

There was a spot in Yuna's program this season where she did that and it was great to see. I wish she did more of it but that would cost her POINTS :disapp:

Mao does more of it in her exhibition pieces which is why some of us think they are so beautiful.