Polina Edmunds World Championship prospects post 4CC.

[MalAssada]

Yeah, but what else is she supposed to say... the Russians are a 1-2 lock, so I'm going to try my best to beat Pogorilaya and Wagner for bronze?

I don't get how it's sparking a controversy to say that you think you/your team can win. More than any other nation the US women have the best chance of taking out one of the Russians off the podium, and she just won an ISU championship, so I don't think it's a particularly brash statement (even if it's obviously not the case).

A middle term, maybe? Like "The Russian ladies are very strong, but I will do my best to beat them at Worlds." Doesn't state the medal she wants to get or the medal Polina expects the Russians to get, yet states her will power to win.

 

[shine]

She may sound insance for saying that she doesn't believe the Russian ladies are any stronger than her if you look strictly at the scores they each have been receiving this season. But when you compare her actual FS from 4CC to the ones that Tukt or Radio gave at Europeans - do I really think they are 20 points apart? Not really.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

A middle term, maybe? Like "The Russian ladies are very strong, but I will do my best to beat them at Worlds." Doesn't state the medal she wants to get or the medal Polina expects the Russians to get, yet states her will power to win.

Who knows what lead her to her statement though... she very well could have been asked "Do you think the Russians are stronger than you?" Then it becomes a matter of being diplomatic and say what you suggested or say that you can win. I remember Liza's/Mishin's camp said something to the effect of looking to win Olympic gold last season, when everyone knew that she'd be pressed to even make the Olympic team (which she didn't).

Figure skating is all about self-aggrandizement... nobody is going to say that they're showing up to not be a contender - especially if they're a US/Russian skater.

Would Anna Pogorilaya be out of line to say that she doesn't think Radionova/Tukt are stronger than her and she can win if she does her best? (Even if it's obvious that she's Russian #3)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She may sound insance for saying that she doesn't believe the Russian ladies are any stronger than her if you look strictly at the scores they each have been receiving this season. But when you compare her actual FS from 4CC to the ones that Tukt or Radio gave at Europeans - do I really think they are 20 points apart? Not really.

Agreed. Polina was majorly hosed in points at 4CC... clearly her early season struggles and not even being one of the top 3 at US championships have been detrimental to how she's perceived. Although, her programs aren't particularly inspiring either.

 

[[email protected]]

Polina coments were the following:

Unfortunately, her full quote was never given. What was quoted is the following twit which brought up the controversy: https://twitter.com/ISU_Reporter/status/567330223692468225

 

[cruzceleste]

Unfortunately, her full quote was never given. What was quoted is the following twit which brought up the controversy: https://twitter.com/ISU_Reporter/status/567330223692468225

Then blame ISU, not Polina

 

[silverlake22]

Her SP scores are holding her back. Her FS number was pretty strong, and she was 5th in the FS at Worlds last year. But with her jumps being front loaded in the SP and doing a 3f which usually gets an edge call, she doesn't have a great chance to make the final flight for the FS, which will probably hurt her PCS potential. I could see her being in 6th-8th place after the SP and then maybe pulling up into the top 5 after the FS, but I think her SP scores are going to hold her back from placing higher. Her FS score at 4 continents for a clean program was only a few points lower than Anna's FS at Euros (though she had 2 mistakes) and roughly equal to Gracie's best FS score from NHK (though she also made a few mistakes), but those two have also scored 66 and 68 for their SPs this season which is considerably above Polina's SP score at 4CCs. I think that's the primary difference between the 3 and why Anna and Gracie have a shot to medal and Polina doesn't really. They also earned their SB scores with mistakes in their programs whereas Polina was perfect at 4CCs, so the potential for the marks to be higher is greater for them.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ironically, Polina's statement about "We all have the same elements" is giving Liza too much credit, seeing as how Liza doesn't do 3Z+3T or a half loop-3S series, two of the hardest elements (the difference, obviously, is that Liza executes her jumps superbly and makes up for it).

 

[R.D.]

Sounds like yet another quote out of context again. We don't know what led her to make that statement. Suppose she was asked directly if she thinks the Russians are better (or, more likely, whether she thinks she has a shot against them) :think:

 

[Sandpiper]

Ironically, Polina's statement about "We all have the same elements" is giving Liza too much credit, seeing as how Liza doesn't do 3Z+3T or a half loop-3S series, two of the hardest elements (the difference, obviously, is that Liza executes her jumps superbly and makes up for it).

And Liza does a correct edge flip, which tends to help...

 

[silverlake22]

Ironically, Polina's statement about "We all have the same elements" is giving Liza too much credit, seeing as how Liza doesn't do 3Z+3T or a half loop-3S series, two of the hardest elements (the difference, obviously, is that Liza executes her jumps superbly and makes up for it).

She was maybe referring to Elena and Anna, who do essentially do the same elements, except they do 3lo in the SP and 3lo-1lo-3s as their 3 jump combo along with 3lz-3t. They are also the same age as Polina so I tend to think she's comparing herself more to those two as opposed to Liza.

 

[Globetrotter]

She was maybe referring to Elena and Anna, who do essentially do the same elements, except they do 3lo in the SP and 3lo-1lo-3s as their 3 jump combo along with 3lz-3t. They are also the same age as Polina so I tend to think she's comparing herself more to those two as opposed to Liza.

If Polina can fix the 3F edge issue, that will be perfect. Considering that the BV of a 3R (5.1) and 3F (5.3) are so similar, it may make more sense to substitute the loop for the flip when the edge is not great. I believe this is what Elena and Pogo and Gracie did since the 3F is their least preferred jump or prone to edge issues (Pogo, Gold). It is actually quite amazing that among the current crop of ladies, only Liza Tuks have a really stable arsenal of the 5 triples with no edge issues and now, she may even get the 3A.

 

[Skater Boy]

There should be a bonus to encourage doing all five triples. But this has been an ongoing problem. Even in 2010 Mao and Yuna had issues. I guess Mirai wasn't as big with ur's then but really Joannie oddly was one of the few who had good command over all jumps.

 

[silverlake22]

If Polina can fix the 3F edge issue, that will be perfect. Considering that the BV of a 3R (5.1) and 3F (5.3) are so similar, it may make more sense to substitute the loop for the flip when the edge is not great. I believe this is what Elena and Pogo and Gracie did since the 3F is their least preferred jump or prone to edge issues (Pogo, Gold). It is actually quite amazing that among the current crop of ladies, only Liza Tuks have a really stable arsenal of the 5 triples with no edge issues and now, she may even get the 3A.

Agreed. And Elena usually gets edge calls on her flips, she did as a junior at least when she was doing 3f-1lo-3s. She learned the combo with loop when moving to seniors to avoid getting the edge call on one of her combos. As for Liza, she doesn't get edge calls on any of her jumps, but when she was doing 3lz-3t in her SP, she too was doing 3lo as the solo triple as opposed to 3f. Polina's 3lo isn't gorgeous currently, but landed cleanly it definitely won't get -2s for GOE the way her 3f does, so she will get more points that way.

These days, the judges basically expect all female skaters (and actually, more and more male skaters too) to have correct technique on either the lutz OR flip but not both. Before callers were so strict, yeah, Polina's 3f probably would have been fine, but these days the vast majority of skaters are getting edge calls (! or e) on either their 3lz or 3f. The only ladies I can think of recently who weren't subject to edge calls are Carolina and Liza, and if you look closely even they both slightly lip their flip. Yuna Kim didn't always get edge calls on her 3f either, but she did take off on an outside edge for that jump and got calls sometimes which was why she started doing 3lz-3t as her combo. Yuna also didn't have a 3lo and was primarily competing when 3f was worth 5.5 and 3lo 5.0. Now that the 3lo is so close in value to 3f, girls with a proper lutz edge really have an advantage, as they can do the 6 point 3lz in their SP and get full credit along with getting full credit for a 3lo. Flutzers are worse off under the new rules, but Polina doesn't flutz so next season I hope she maximizes her jump layout!

 

[cjsk8fan]

Why compete if you don't believe you can win? I see nothing wrong with Polina's comment.

 

[Ophelia]

^according to that logic, why are 95% of the ladies competing then? None of them have a shot at the podium.

 

[Shani]

I did not see too many Russian ladies at 4CC which was the direct context and place she made the element comment.

 

[andromache]

^according to that logic, why are 95% of the ladies competing then? None of them have a shot at the podium.

I think the attitude of "why compete if you don't think you can win" possibly varies from country to country. In a country that has historically had success in ladies figure skating like the US or Russia, the belief in international victory is important, especially for the media. I don't think I've read press statements from skaters from non-dominant skating countries though, so I could definitely be wrong about this difference.

 

[treeloving]

Figure skate fan sometime really addict to drama, they can stir any small significant word into something much bigger than it is, the reaction Polina receive in her tweeter is just disgusting.

Why do people love to bully other just to make themselves feel more secure?

And those who claim that the Russia is 20-30 points better, do you really believes that they ability is that much apart? I think Liza higher tes than anyone else is justified, but do you really truly believe that Liza and Elena deserve that high PCS?

 

[Amei]

But is not an insult nor direspect, is a confidence stament that even her or Satoko and Hongo who were there in the conference would made.

Now I wonder, If the Americans or Japanese were ruling the skating competitions right now and Elena, Liza or Yulia were to made the same stament how it will be recieved by the Russian public?

I didn't say it was an insult or disrespectful - I said it was thoughtless; finishes are what matter and the American ladies in results have been nowhere near the Russians. And if she has to tell herself some little confidence speech that's fine, but fans have the right to call-out any comment made in interviews/conferences that is on the surface poorly said or thought-out; or just in their opinion ridiculous to say.


(Note I am an American)