Popularity of Figure Skating

[Poodlepal]

Is FS less popular in the non-Asian countries than it was in, say 1993, before the Nancy knee-cap incident?

It comes up all the time, most recently in the article about Patrick Chan, how figure skaters don't get compensated like they did in the 90's. I certainly can see how that would be, but my question is, I think, has the sport reached an "all time low" or is it just sort of correcting itself to a niche sport in the US and Canada? Have competitions and shows that existed before 1994 gone out of business or stopped being televised? Or is it only the newer stuff that is disappearing, like Rock n Roll Ice Wars and the like?

 

[ivy]

It does seem less popular to me over all, though people that are interested can get a lot more information. I remember in the 'good old days' when ABC had skating on most weekends through the winter and we have Mens and Pairs one day and then Ladies and Ice Dance the next. I watched most of that, but then I never knew what was happening in Jrs or at the Russian Nat'ls or at Sectionals in the US. Now, because of places like this and You Tube & Ice Network (which doesn't actually work for me, but the idea is good), I know something about all of these different parts of skating. How people can make money from that, I'm not sure.

I wonder if the moderators can shed any light on the popularity based on active members of these forums? Is it trending up, down? More Asian readers, less North Americans? I know this may be proprietary information and not for public consumption.

 

[gkelly]

Is FS less popular in the non-Asian countries than it was in, say 1993, before the Nancy knee-cap incident?

Would you judge this by television viewership? Ticket sales? What else?

Have competitions and shows that existed before 1994 gone out of business or stopped being televised? Or is it only the newer stuff that is disappearing, like Rock n Roll Ice Wars and the like?

There were a few professional competitions and tours before 1993 that had been around since the 1970s or 80s, or earlier, and that no longer exist. There are a number of reasons for that, some of which may have to do with skating being "less popular" now than 20+ years ago.

Another reason is the availability of prize money and the lack of penalty for earning money through skating that allows eligible skaters to continue competing rather than "turning pro." When competitive skating was a strict amateur sport, most competitors couldn't afford to stick with it and, unless they had some other career path in mind that might involve college and grad school, turned pro when they thought they could earn back the most money.

As for eligible competitions, there are more now than there were 20 years ago, although some specific competitions that used to exist no longer do. The "Champions on Ice" tour that grew out of the ISU tour no longer exists, though.

 

[Mathman]

Have competitions and shows that existed before 1994 gone out of business or stopped being televised?

Certainly the big entertainment productions have gone out of business. The Ice Follies was popular from 1937 until 1979, when it was absorbed into Holliday on Ice. Peggy Fleming starred in five television specials in the first six months after winning the Olympic gold medal in 1968, then joined Ice Follies for five years. Holliday on Ice was founded in 1943 and is still in business in Europe and South America, but not in North America. Janet Lynn signed with Ice Follies for 1.4 million dollars (but did not complete her full contract.)

Dorothy Hamill headlined Ice Capades from 1977 to 1984. (She later bought it, but it went out of business some time later.) In 1993 one poll rated Dorothy Hamill as the second most popular American athlete (not just women). Peggy Fleming was #3. (Mary Lou Retton was #1.)

John Curry's company put on shows from 1976 to 1984. Champions on Ice went from 1969 to 2008, Stars on Ice started in 1986 and is still in business (barely). Dick Button's World Pro Championship lasted from 1980 to 2000.

So, yeah, that kind of skating show was once popular but now is a thing of the past.

 

[Spun Silver]

But we have Skating with the Stars, Blades of Glory, and Johnny Weir.

 

[Tonichelle]

SwtS didn't get renewed AFAIK (thank God)

Pro Skating doesn't exist because it was taken over by the ISU and they were turned into Pro-Am's to "save skating"... which all it did was make it worse...

 

[Spun Silver]

But Dancing on Ice is still happening in Britain.

 

[Tonichelle]

But Dancing on Ice is still happening in Britain.

and there's Battle of the Blades ( ) in Canadia

 

[CoyoteChris]

I dont think there is an easy answer here, but when I go to a skating event, its like going to an old folks home. And there are pleanty of empty seats. Sure, there are a few Tonis there and some young girls with their moms, but attendance is way down and I dont think the economy is much to blame. Go to a regionals and see how many pairs and dance couples you see. I don't think the younger generations really care all that much about our sport as a spectator or, except for the ladies, participants. They seem to have three second attention spans. I was watching the 2008 Worlds Ladies short last night from my DVD collection of ESPN broadcasts and they showed a ton of ladies, and did special segments on some of them. Heck, they showed our three ladies sweeping the podium at Jr. Worlds in Bulgaria! Try and find that on TV now. TV sports follows the money. No viewers, no money. Thankfully, we still have Universal Sports here where they can take a common video feed and put Tanith in LA in a studio and do a broadcast at a reasonable price. If we loose that, all we got is our computers. I would be suprised to see NBC stick around much longer except for Nationals....Maybe another Evan or MK would help, but I have to wonder if in a few years if even that would help.

 

[Tonichelle]

In my case the economy is definitely a reason I'm not in the seats.

That and I think they really do need to stop raising the prices, this also goes with SOI, I know that there aren't many folks coming so they need to make money somehow, but if it's out of reach for spectators it's not going to get the joe blow to sit there... not sure what the backroom dealings are for television, but obviously someone's not being generous. So I can't speak on what they're doing there.

 

[Vash01]

I used to go to COI and SOI every year, but I have not gone to SOI in the last 3 years (and there is no COI anymore). It was partly due to the rising ticket prices, and my favorite skaters not being in the show. It just does not seem worth paying for. I had always liked COI more than SOI, so if it was still around, I may have gone to see it. I don't much care for fluff shows (like Kristi's family & friends). I would rather spend the money on competitions.

 

[gkelly]

Go to a regionals and see how many pairs and dance couples you see.

The answer will be zero, because USFS decided a number of years ago that pairs and dancers should start the qualifying process at sectionals.

But anyway, that's a measure of popularity with participants whereas the rest of the discussion seems to be about the popularity with audiences.

 

[Tonichelle]

The answer will be zero, because USFS decided a number of years ago that pairs and dancers should start the qualifying process at sectionals.

But anyway, that's a measure of popularity with participants whereas the rest of the discussion seems to be about the popularity with audiences.

they kinda go hand in hand, I think, is what Chris is saying?

 

[Mathman]

Is FS less popular in the non-Asian countries...

It will be interesting to see if Asia follows the rest of the world in this regard. The popularity of skating in Japan in particular may have already hit its crest a year or two ago.

 

[dorispulaski]

No one has mentioned Disney on Ice, which is still very, very popular as a place to take little kids. It's been around for quite a while-Linda Fratianne was in it for years.

 

[CoyoteChris]

OK, my bad...I always assumed that there were no pairs/dance folk at regionals cause you would have to have five pairs to have a competition, otherwise, the four or less would get an auto buy to Sectionals....
My bad #2. Attendance to ice shows could be down due to the economy, but TV watchers are another story.
I have to exclude Disney On Ice as I think, with all due respect to Toni, it has much to do with Disney and little to do with skating. IMHO
Popularity as to participants I think in some small measure can not be separated from popularity of fans, at least with the 10 year to 25 year old. If one is absorbed in the world of MTV and social media, which seems to have taken over much of the life of our youth, there is much less time for "doing" and self improvement. I dont want to sound racist but the family values of the Amerian/Asians seem to delayed this effect on the American skaters.
What percentage of American Skaters are from Asian heritage vs the normal society distribution? Well, I hope I am wrong and when us old folks pass on, there will be a new generation to fill the seats at Nats and SkateAmerica. And watch TV.

 

[Poodlepal]

Coyote, I agree with what you said. I'm a teacher for 11 years now, 9 of them at girls' high schools, and I don't think I've ever seen a kid who would have the persistence and dedication to do what teen skaters must do to remain competitive. Granted, I don't have Ivy League caliber kids like Sarah or Rachael in my schools, but in the last few years it seems that kids are willing to work or sacrifice less and less. Possibly the texting obsession is a cause of this. They never have to be out of contact with their friends/boyfriend, even for a split second. Social lives seem to be more important than ever, and kids have problems being bossed around by adults much more than when I was young (I'm 42).

I'm going to hypothesize that it might be harder to find a girl (in the US, at least) willing to give up the normal "teen" experience to work out all day than it was even in the 1990's, when Tara and Michelle didn't even go to school. Which means that American girls will not be as good as their Asian competitors, who I'm going to stereotype as being maybe more docile to being pushed around by goal-driven adults. (I know, stereotypes are unfair, but there's some truth to this). Which means that the US ladies may never be as good as they once were, meaning that the popularity for this sport is approaching toast level. The pairs, men and dance teams are a little older, it might not be as bad with them. They can start training in earnest more in their later teens or college years and still do well.

Mirai is one who seems to struggle with the demands of training, etc. if what I've read on the board is true, and she's from a Japanese immigrant family.



Men, pairs and dancers are a little older.

 

[brightphoton]

Poodle, I don't think anyone of either gender would willingly give up the "teen experience" if the teen experience is going to school and the alternative is working out all day, while not going to school. For one thing, the chances of becoming a successful adult is pretty high if you work hard and stay in school, while the chances of becoming a successful Olympic athlete is nearly zero. Working out for more than an hour sucks. After I'm in the gym for about an hour, my body is done. I don't know what elite athletes are doing in their 8 hour workouts.

I don't blame people for not taking the second route if they have a choice in it. I hope that the Asian skaters aren't being too docile and pushed around by adults with their own agendas.

 

[gkelly]

Any posters here who are or used to be competitive skaters (or competitive in other sports) to explain why they would want to train for hours a day, most days a week?

Of the skaters who do get to the higher competitive levels (novice-senior), mostly it's because they love skating and are motivated to excel. And have the talent and resources (money, access to ice time and good coaching) to see a payoff for their hard work.

It's not for everyone. I wouldn't have made it my priority even if I did have all of the above, which I didn't. So the number of elite skaters will always be a tiny percentage of the overall population.

Even reaching middle skill levels requires a lot of dedication and resources. So even that won't be for everyone. But it is a more reasonable goal for kids (or adults) who love to skate but also have other life goals and priorities.

I think skating is a more attractive/popular athletic hobby now than 20+ years ago (before the major boom in popularity in the US) for a couple of reasons: Progress is no longer dependent on long hours of practicing school figures, and there other tracks to keep people in the sport if they don't have the interest or the ability to devote themselves to elite freestyle or dance competition. Within the US, there are now competition and performance opportunities for teens and adults who will never get past the lower or middle skill levels in the traditional disciplines and also competition and performance opportunities in areas like synchronized skating, Theatre on Ice, solo dance, etc., that were new or not yet developed at all 20 years ago.

Without access to all the relevant data, I'd guess that the biggest increase in kids and adults starting to take skating lessons happened in the mid-90s, the height of the skating boom. And then, of those kids, the ones who had the talent and desire and work ethic and other resources to get to senior level would have gotten there in the early/mid-00s (and some from that wave are now veteran competitors).

As always, many skaters quit before reaching the top levels. But those who realized they never would get there have more reasons now than when I was teenager to stay in the sport and keep skating in other contexts besides standard track singles (or pair or dance) competition. The numbers at regionals have been lower this year than 5-10 years ago when the boom generation peaked, but I wonder if the total number of US skaters, including synchro skaters, is pretty much the same.

All of which has little to do with what TV networks and audiences care about.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I hope that the Asian skaters aren't being too docile and pushed around by adults with their own agendas.

When non Asian kids do it, it's because of their dedication, work ethics, and love of the sport, with very supportive parents. But Asian kids do it because they are docile and pushed around by adults with their own agendas.

Okey Odkey.