Post-Olympic Drama: Worlds

[hanyuufan5]

I was shocked at first about Alina, but when I found out why, I was impressed that she ranked anywhere near as high as she did.

The poor girl shot up 3 cm in height since the Olympics! As someone who never had a growth spurt during adolescence and has been the same height and weight since younger than Alina, I can't even imagine what that's like. In a neuroscience sense, it was basically like someone took her brain out and stuck it in someone else's body and expected her to skate like that! Her synapses were mostly still catered to smaller body. Her brain needs to rewire itself before everything becomes as natural again.

 

[BillNeal]

The fight for WBM between Cappellini/Lanotte and Weaver/Poje was one of the highlights of the past worlds, just as the fight for WGM between them was four years ago. These teams finished 6th and 7th both times at the Olympics. And what made it so exciting was that they skated their best in years and scored PBs both times. Love both of these teams and as I mentioned before, definitely an underrated rivalry.

 

[ladyjane]

The fight for WBM between Cappellini/Lanotte and Weaver/Poje was one of the highlights of the past worlds, just as the fight for WGM between them was four years ago. These teams finished 6th and 7th both times at the Olympics. And what made it so exciting was that they skated their best in years and scored PBs both times. Love both of these teams and as I mentioned before, definitely an underrated rivalry.

Totally agree. Wasn't the difference in WC 2014 0.02 points between 1 (C/L) and 2 (W/P) and another 0.04 between 2 and 3 (P/B)? This year the fight for the bronze was slightly less close, but still spectacular. Indeed, an underrated rivalry!

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Alina's Worlds FS was a crazy meltdown. One of the most perceived consistent skaters had one of the biggest meltdowns ever.

Part of me was happy because it's nice that a skater who was essentially gaming the system to win ultimately didn't medal: but part of me was upset that the most technically sound woman (as in, on their best day) didn't even medal.

It's kinda like when Halle Berry won the Oscar for Monsters Ball and the Razzie for Catwoman. It was nice to see you could be on top one day and with the "normal folk" the next.

And that's a compliment to Zagitova's superhuman-ness.

Wait... you were happy, even only partially, that a skater had one of the worst meltdowns of her career?

 

[cruzceleste]

Послеолимпийский кошмар 1 | Post-Olympic Nightmare 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XTXFd6yXus

Послеолимпийский кошмар 2 | Post-Olympic Nightmare 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrcxP96fXUk&t

Послеолимпийский кошмар 3 | Post-Olympic Nightmare 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CSAdrT4W4

Послеолимпийский кошмар 4 | Post-Olympic Nightmare 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-xfvXt2p4

You do know most of the people in this forum don´t speak russian?

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

You do know most of the people in this forum don´t speak russian?

You do realize the title of the video is written once in Russian and once translated in English right?
Also most of us watch figure skating videos in an other language sometimes, out of necessity or if we are particularly interested in the topic

Funnily enough nightmare is said the same in French : "cauchemar"

 

[Fluture]

You do realize the title of the video is written once in Russian and once translated in English right?
Also most of us watch figure skating videos in an other language sometimes, out of necessity or if we are particularly interested in the topic

Funnily enough nightmare is said the same in French : "cauchemar"

Well, I watch videos in different languages basically all the time but I couldn’t quite get the gist of these videos because there was so much text. I mean obviously I know what they are about but not what was discussed in the video. E.g. what were they talking about in the Medvexit one? :thinking:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Good lord. Molehill meet mountain. Some of you are too cute for words.

Yes she was taking advantage of the fact that she could backload for maximum BV but with no expense to her PCS, which in fact kept rising. She won the Olympics based on pure consistency of execution throughout the season.

As we saw it didn't matter if she had poor SPs to start the season... the moment she went clean at the GPF her PCS got a crazy huge boost - 35.06 (her previous SP personal best PCS of 31.64 and she was around the 31 zone at all her events until the GPF).

Also her PCS for a clean FS was 67.52 at Lombardia and then over 75 at the Olympics for pretty much the same clean FS.

Her accolades were still deserved but yes, I was glad to see the podium at Worlds comprise 3 skaters who IMO had better, balanced programs.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

"gaming the system" ---- gimme a break

if that's a compliment - I'd hate to see your insults.

The compliment was in reference to her being so solid and able to consistently pull off that superhuman layout, that it was nice to see for once that she is in fact human and even the best have their bad days.

And no I wasn't complimenting her choice to rack up points by backloading. I was complimenting her ability to reliably execute it though.

Hope that clarifies the confusion!

 

[Fluture]

Good lord. Molehill meet mountain. Some of you are too cute for words.

Yes she was taking advantage of the fact that she could backload for maximum BV but with no expense to her PCS, which in fact kept rising. She won the Olympics based on pure consistency of execution throughout the season.

As we saw it didn't matter if she had poor SPs to start the season... the moment she went clean at the GPF her PCS got a crazy huge boost.

Also her PCS for a clean FS was 67.52 at Lombardia and then over 75 at the Olympics for the same clean FS.

Her accolades were still deserved but i was glad to see the podium at Worlds comprise 3 skaters who IMO had better, balanced programs.

Her PCs got this crazy boost because Zhenya was out with injury and they wanted a ”back-up“ plan. And she won the Olympics because she has by far the most difficult program and the most difficult technical elements. Have you ever stood on skates? Do you know how ridiculously hard it is to skate a fully backloaded program, let alone one with the elements she had? I also didn‘t like how her PCs suddenly increased because it‘s giving the impression she‘s already there when she‘s not. She has a lot to improve in her artistry and connection to the music but I believe that she can and will do it. And what‘s the problem with the backloaded program? You won’t see such a thing again because of the new rules. So why bother bringing this up again? She won and even though a lot of us probably wanted to see our favourites on the podium doesn‘t mean she didn‘t deserve to be on top.

And I, for one, was not glad that she wasn‘t on the podium in Milan. But I guess we‘re just having different opinions here and that‘s okay.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Her PCs got this crazy boost because Zhenya was out with injury and they wanted a ”back-up“ plan. And she won the Olympics because she has by far the most difficult program and the most difficult technical elements. Have you ever stood on skates? Do you know how ridiculously hard it is to skate a fully backloaded program, let alone one with the elements she had? I also didn‘t like how her PCs suddenly increased because it‘s giving the impression she‘s already there when she‘s not. She has a lot to improve in her artistry and connection to the music but I believe that she can and will do it. And what‘s the problem with the backloaded program? You won’t see such a thing again because of the new rules. So why bother bringing this up again? She won and even though a lot of us probably wanted to see our favourites on the podium doesn‘t mean she didn‘t deserve to be on top.

And I, for one, was not glad that she wasn‘t on the podium in Milan. But I guess we‘re just having different opinions here and that‘s okay.

I literally just said "her accolades were still deserved". I didn't like the approach from a program aesthetics standpoint but given the system she did what she had to do.

And yes I have been on skates, and acknowledge what she did was difficult - not that you have to be a skater to know that. No need to patronize.

Also yes, I'm glad backloaded programs will no longer be the norm. Although I wonder if some skaters will still try them just to show they can and to stand out.

 

[Fluture]

I literally just said "her accolades were still deserved". I didn't like the approach from a program aesthetics standpoint but given the system she did what she had to do.

And yes I have been on skates, and acknowledge what she did was difficult - not that you have to be a skater to know that. No need to patronize.

Also yes, I'm glad backloaded programs will no longer be the norm. Although I wonder if some skaters will still try them just to show they can and to stand out.

Hm. I think you do have to have stood on skates to truly appreciate the difficulty because I have seen comments and articles where they literally said “She was only resting the first two minutes and doing nothing before jumping so she has more energy“ which makes like absolutely no sense at all. Or maybe you just have to think logically... but that‘s probably even more of a task for some

Well, backloaded programs were never even the norm to begin with. Zagitova was the only one at the Olympics to go fully backloaded. But you‘re right, it‘d probably have soon been the norm as we see juniors were all already jumping on that bandwagon. I don‘t think that they‘ll still try to do a backloaded program just to show off, though. What would be the use? If they can do a fully backloaded one, chances are they‘ll pull a ”normal“ program off even easier, thus getting higher GOEs on elements etc. I doubt anyone would give that up just for the sake of a ”look at me! I can do this and you can’t!!“ moment. There‘s no need at all to do this and those who were able to backload last season don‘t really need this to stand out anymore because they‘re all trying quads and 3A now, so...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes that was an happy drama. But even Yuzu win was a bit lucky. He botched a SP that he skated clean all the season.

I think worlds after the olympics are really hard for OGM. Too much tiredeness and pressure. Zagitova bombing was not that surprising.

He was quite fortunate indeed - he got the highest PCS in the SP - 45.50 -with a UR fall, over clean skates from Machida and Fernandez. Some judges even awarded him 9.50 for performance.

 

[flanker]

Also yes, I'm glad backloaded programs will no longer be the norm. Although I wonder if some skaters will still try them just to show they can and to stand out.

They never were. And that's what I liked. Now 4-3 will be the norm. And that's what I hate.

 

[ladyjane]

Can we go back to the subject of this thread, please? If I were interested in the merits of having backloaded programmes or not, I'm sure there's a different thread. I'm coming to this one because I'm interested in what has happened in post-Olympic Worlds (mostly to medallists at the Olympics). Thanks all.

 

[yume]

He was quite fortunate indeed - he got the highest PCS in the SP - 45.50 -with a UR fall, over clean skates from Machida and Fernandez. Some judges even awarded him 9.50 for performance.

P.W was so iconic that.....you know judges couldn't resist. At least it was not a 10

 

[Fluture]

They never were. And that's what I liked. Now 4-3 will be the norm. And that's what I hate.

Yeah, I also don‘t get why there needed to be an extra rule just because of what Alina did. If they didn‘t want her to win, they could have easily done it by giving her two points or so less in PCS. “Problem“ solved, now she’s second and the artistic skater wins. I just don’t get it. They always let the technician win and then complain that there’s too little focus on artistry and that’s why they have to increase age/ban backloading. Like... what? If you want more focus on artistry, then focus on it. They could have easily let Medvedeva win and send a message had they wanted to. But no, they first let Alina win only to have people complain about her victory and then enforce a rule to stop backloading ?? That doesn‘t make sense at all and it’s not fair to her.

The thing about backloading is, most people aren‘t able to pull it off, especially as they grow older. It would have probably only been a few Russian/Japanese youngsters to try out backloading and in combination with their difficult jumps, they likely would have swept podiums in seniors. So, yeah, I get what they‘re trying to do. They‘re “protecting“ the older ones from being overrun by a backloading army of pre-pubescent teens. I can‘t say whether I approve of this or not. Focusing on artistry is fine but at the expense of artificially holding the sport back from developing? I‘m not sure at all that this is the right path...

But I doubt someone like Eteri cares about this at all. She was probably like: “Sasha, come here and jump 4S and 4T. Anna, show us 4Lz. Alina, 3Lz-3Lo. Alena, what about some triple axels? Oh, sorry, what did you say? No backloading anymore? That‘s unfortunate... for some.“

Edit: Yeah, I realise now that this is pretty off-topic, sorry! Let‘s focus on something else.

 

[flanker]

If they want to focus on artistry, well, then there is a question wheter not to rise multiplier for PCS from 1,6 to e. g. 1,8. As the ladies technical score will rise undoubtedly, this question will be on the table, anyway, if they would want to preserve the equal importance of both technical skills and artistry.

 

[lesnar001]

The compliment was in reference to her being so solid and able to consistently pull off that superhuman layout, that it was nice to see for once that she is in fact human and even the best have their bad days.

And no I wasn't complimenting her choice to rack up points by backloading. I was complimenting her ability to reliably execute it though.

Hope that clarifies the confusion!

I wasn't confused

Just responding to typical comment that masks insults with a "compliment" thrown in.

"rack up points", "gaming the system" - sounds like you read CB's columns.

"gaming the system" usually doesn't involve "superhuman layouts" --- to me it means an athlete finding some obscure loophole that makes their job easier.

 

[lesnar001]

If they want to focus on artistry, well, then there is a question wheter not to rise multipier for PCS from 1,6 to e. g. 1,8. As the ladies technical score will rise undoubtedly, this question will be on the table, anyway, if they would want to preserve the equal importance of both technical skills and artistry.

I think right now that is more important in the men's where the max PCS is 100 and tech scores far surpassing 100 more and more.